I used to have a standard uk 98 5 door and it had a considerable amount of understeer, It would get better under power on sweeping bends when boost influenced the chassis but low speed nadgery stuff was always front tyre shredding (Eagle F1s). It was far worse than a previous ur quattro I used to own, though from what I read (at the time) they "softened up" the 98 cars handling from the factory. I'd go for a tweaked geometry set-up before swapping springs/dampers (unless the originals are shot), and see how you get on with that first.

Iain Mac

 

Cheers Iain!

 

I have an MY99 with exactly the mods warrenm2 has suggested. I set the rear ARB to the stiffest setting on the inner of the 3 x holes either side. Am very pleased with the results too.

 

Thanks.

BTW: Apologies for my ignorance, but I've been wondering what 'MY' means for a while now...

 

Model year/manufacture year

Age of the car m'dear

 

That's all it means! I'm disappointed, now!

 

Very interesting thread.
A couple of months ago I did exactly this mod as described with the Whiteline kits but excluding the front ARB. Worthwhile and cost effective.
What geometry settings are others running? Previously I had a total of 2mm Front toe IN and 1mm Rear toe IN and around 1 deg 30mins Negative camber all round.
Anybody found a link to the final chapter in the story.

 

FWIW mine are (L / R):

Front Toe: +0.2mm +0.3mm
Front Camber: -0deg 24' -0deg 6'
Front Caster: +3deg 13' +3deg 4'
Rear Toe: +0.1mm +0.2mm
Rear Camber: -1deg 1' -1deg 14'

 

Had mine geometry done by powerstation including the bump-steer and iebachs. Made a hell of a difference to improving the handing...now the car gets nice oversteer

 

ray you dont go fast enough round corners m8 lol

 

Has anyone mentioned the ALK yet ???
Had one fitted to mine, and made a big difference applying power out of corners.

 

Just to say that, following advice on this thread, a few months ago I had my car's geometry changed to the Whiteline recommended 'Touring' settings, and they drammatically reduced understeer. Coming off the throttle in an understeer condition brings the back around just enough to correct the understeer, so I can then go back on the throttle... :-)

Disappointingly, despite the front settings now being symmetrical (instead of the Subaru recommended asymmetry to compensate for road camber) there's still a difference in steering responsiveness on LH and RH bends (RH turn-in is much sharper than LH turn-in). I can't help concluding that there must be something wrong with my car's suspension that the LASER gear isn't spotting...

The slight 'down' side to the Whiteline settings is that they make the turn-in very sharp (too sharp for RH steering inputs in my car), which is great for tight corners and roundabouts, but bad for straight-line stability at fast motorway speeds - IOW when going silly fast I seem to end up weaving down the road as minor steering inputs resulting in too great a heading change.

Having said all of that, I prefer the Whiteline settings, over the standard Subaru ones, as I find that going around corners more quickly is more fun than blatting at high speed in a straight line.

 

Take it to Powerstation, they will sort it. I had understeer, now just slight over steer.

powerstation fitted
eibach pro springs
whiteline rear arb and solid droplinks
bumpsteer mod
and their geometry setup for fast road use. Fantastic car now.
Andy

 

I'm sure you're right but what I don't understand is why all Scooby owners rave about the handling of their car. Has everybody moved away from the standard geometry and/or paid out for mechanical modifications? If so, I wish people had said to me, before I bought mine, that they don't handle well as standard!

 

You know, I've heard this type of comment many times and it never ceases to amaze me.

"Scoobies aren't that fast, they don't handle well". Blah, Blah

Tell that to the Mondeo driver who nearly hit me head on whilst understeering to the wrong side of the road en route to Xtreme one sat morning.

I'm sorry, but to say these cars aren't good as std is rubbish!

I think what is more likely is that they open your eyes to what is achievable and raise the bar. You get accustomed to the speed and handling and want more, that DOES NOT mean the std set up is crap! If it was, you'd need much more than a geometry change to rectify it! The fact that a simple geometry change can change things so drastically points to how good the std mechanicals are, and that the understeer has been deliberately put there by Subaru. Why? Well, Subaru have to set up these cars to handle predictably and be forgiving in as broad a range of conditions and for as broad a range of driver ability as possible. They have to provide good stability on poor surfaces and on the motorway. Suspension settings are always a compromise. Not everyone wants to use their car for B-road blasts or trackdays. You tailor them to suit your needs and driving style. Subaru have given you a blank canvas, use it, don't trash it!

I'm looking to fit a Whiteline rear anti roll bar and droplinks myself to make the car corner a little flatter and dial out some of the understeer? Does this mean that the suspension is inadequate, or does it mean that I'm now taking a corner considerably quicker in the scooby than I would have dared in another car. Answers on a postcard!

Cheers,

NS04

 

Take a look at www.ridedrive.co.uk
I did a day with them last summer and can't recommend it highly enough. The instructor was a Police instructor.

 

All things are relative (and subjective). I agree with you that what you are used to (and how [well] you drive) determines what 'handle well' means, and what (I now know) Subaru have done to make the standard car idiot proof - although I am annoyed with them for it.

My last daily use car was a 17yo MkIII Escort with XR3i suspension and Yoko A539s. Not exactly state of the art but it stuck to the road surprisingly well, even with totally shagged dampers, and I had loads of fun embarrassing newer cars. I bought the Scoob just over 2 years ago. I have driven a variety of other cars, new and old, including Cavaliers/Vectras and Mondeos. I've heard a lot of hype about Scoobies over the years, and it influenced me into buying one. I'm not saying that their handling is bad, but that, as standard, they are NOT head and shoulders above other (even mundane) cars, IME. The car I bought, with the infamously bad ZZ1s on, and standard suspension, was, frankly, a disappointment. I found my wife's MkII Mondeo more predictable and stable - and the ABS is a damn site better. To make my Scoob into something worth the insurance premiums I've had to put sticky rubber on it, and have the geometry changed - neither of which I was expecting to have to do to keep up with more mundane cars on the road. IME sticky rubber makes a lot more difference than clever suspension setup, and you can put it on any car. 4WD obviously has an advantage over 2WD.

I like my Scoob (looks, power, handling - now) but I don't kid myself that it is much more than a 200BHP 4WD saloon on sticky tyres. I don't see why I should spend money making it what it could/should be as standard. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against upgrades. Quite the opposite. But I bought the Scoob on the belief that I could keep it totally standard and still have one of the best handling cars on the road. I was wrong.

 

Thanks mate. I'm a little confident with the Scooby now, but would still very much like to be shown how it should be done by a professional.

 

The bump steer removal mod and full suspension setup by Powerstation as well as solid anti roll bar links will make the car feel like a different machine. It stops your front tyres wearing out on the edges too, that saves a lot of money. Powerstation have got the best geometry settings as well.

The best tyres I have tried are Goodyear Eagle F1's D03. They make a wet road feel dry and you get good mileage from them too.

Never had any problem with oversteer or lift off oversteer either, the car was perfectly balanced.

Les

 

Thanks Les. I use F1's too (well, the Scoob does...). Do you mind me asking how much the Powerstation mods cost, and where they are?

 

I have the drop links done, strut brace and full prodrive geo settings.

The car handles superb, oversteers like a ****

 

I wonder how many people are confusing handling with grip.

you can have incredible handling with hardly any grip and incredible grip with dire handling.

They may be related to some extent but the words are not interchangable.

 

I've been reading about the bumpsteer and understeer issues.

Excluding the eibachs, how much of the above is warranty-friendly? Just the alignment, or some of the mods too?

And which of the mods are the most effective individually (Yes, I know all should be considered, but thinking on price here)?

 

Impreza's got loads of grip, not that great handling, from stock imho. But with a few inexpensive tweaks, this can change dramatically.
Good grippy tyres with the right pressures (personal preference on psi) make a huge difference to start
Drop links (have you seen the OEM items!)
And 4 wheel alignments, to say prodrive settings, and the car feels totally different, more balanced, like how it should have handled from scratch
With all the bomb craters I mean potholes on our roads, the chances of your alignment being bang on 12 with months out the showroom are pretty slim.
With your tyres only having 4 tiny contact patches, if the wheels are not pointing in the right directions, what chance do you have?
So imho you should get above done first and see how you like it before changing springs, dampers, anti lift/more dive kits or roll bars.
Oh and learn to drive properly first too! , any car will understeer if provoked the wrong way

 

You want the car you understeer less. Just take the fookin front anti roll bar link off !!
Or just the whole thing off !

How dull are you people !!! LOL

 

Dragging up an old thread here.
Are powerstation still the people to go to?
I'm about an hour from them.

 

These are two guys to go to....

Don Palmer
http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/

Also Mark Walsh
http://www.carlimits.com/


Where abouts in the UK are you
Do you want track training or high speed defensive road training
... or more how to play about on the limits of grip?

Argg I hate these posts that come back from the dead. Just noticed the date. Ignore me. I guess New Scooby 04 is now a driving god all these years later