moses

mate we muslims believe in not ghosts but demons

its true, their another race like us , the people and descendants of satan as we are adam and eve


their called jinns, u only hear the mythical stories like genie in a lamp, but these guys are invisible and made of fire as we are made of clay and spirit.


same demons jesus cast out of the people.

the black magic people can control them for their own evil purposes, but these demons aint friends, their the ones who whisper into our ears to do evil and its our concious that makes us fight back

the war of satan and the children of adam will be their till the end of day

edited to add satan was one of them his real name was iblis, he was the head

moses

Solomon's Experience with the Jinn


Allah made all the jinn subservient to the Prophet Sulaimaan (Solomon), a gift from Allah, swt, that will never be granted to another after him.

The Noble Qur'an - Saad 38:35-39
35. He said: "My Lord! Forgive me, and bestow upon me a kingdom such as shall not belong to any other after me: Verily, You are the Bestower."

36. So, We subjected to him the wind, it blew gently to his order whithersoever he willed,

37. And also the Shayâtin (devils) from the jinns (including) every kind of builder and diver,

38. And also others bound in fetters.

39. [Saying of Allâh to Sulaimân (Solomon)]: "This is Our gift, so spend you or withhold, no account will be asked."


The Noble Qur'an - Saba' 34:12-14

12. And to Solomon (We subjected) the wind, its morning (stride from sunrise till midnoon) was a month's (journey), and its afternoon (stride from the midday decline of the sun to sunset) was a month's (journey i.e. in one day he could travel two months' journey). And We caused a fount of (molten) brass to flow for him, and there were jinns that worked in front of him, by the Leave of his Lord, and whosoever of them turned aside from Our Command, We shall cause him to taste of the torment of the blazing Fire.

13. They worked for him what he desired, (making) high rooms, images, basins as large as reservoirs, and (cooking) cauldrons fixed (in their places). "Work you, O family of Dâwud (David), with thanks!" But few of My slaves are grateful.

14. Then when We decreed death for him [Sulaimân (Solomon)], nothing informed them (jinns) of his death except a little worm of the earth, which kept (slowly) gnawing away at his stick, so when he fell down, the jinns saw clearly that if they had known the unseen, they would not have stayed in the humiliating torment
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as the last verse goes, God had made the jinns subserviant to king solomon aka sulamain ibn daud aka king davids son peace be upon him

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Every human has a partner Jinn


Hadith - Sahih Muslim 6757, Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, similar narration 6759 by 'Aisha, r.a.
Allah's Apostle said: There is none amongst you with whom is not an attache from amongst the jinn (devil). They (the Companions) said: Allah's Apostle with you too? Thereupon he said: Yes, but Allah helps me against him and so I am safe from his hand and he does not command me but for good.

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as u see jinn all the time bud, go on bravo, i can get away with a flirt or a **** see satan is a sweet b@stard, he plays with us but has no control over us bud, he only invites us

InvisibleMan

Moses - I think you're fabulous!

InvisibleMan

Really glad you posted that earlier link re: patronising......

Drunken Bungle Whore

OOopps - and before anyone starts on IM - the previous 2 posts were mine - damned cookies!

moses

i aint fabulous my friend u are stef the awesome chap , one of the coolest blokes of the world bud u are God bless u, always been nice to me

Drunken Bungle Whore

Bugger off - stop spoiling my fun!

Shy Muppet

The problem with many scientist is they are so hell bent on proving that their own theory is right, that they loose their objectivity and their minds become closed. Especially if their work has been published, they will always be right and everyone else is wrong. Saving face and all that.

Look what happened when "scientists" found a small bone of the Iguandon. Without any evidence (i.e. a skeleton) to back up their claim, the scientists said it was a horn and presented the world with a reconstruction of an animal based on one small bone. It was later proven that this was in fact a thumb spike and new approach was sort.

Scientist are not always right and just because scientists cannot find plausable reasonings for everything, doesn't mean that things don't exist.

Drunken Bungle Whore

Good point - one of the things I find quite worrying at the moment is the growing trend for businesses to fund university/ academic research programmes. This means that information is not shared in the way it used to be plus only the 'more attractive/ lucrative' fields are benefiting.

I'm honestly not sure what the answer is though - they need money and it sure as hell isn't coming from the government!

ajm

Well I must say, DBW, I hope you have enjoyed watching B2Z and me fighting today.... oh the irony!

Drunken Bungle Whore

What can I say - I was bored!


Send me someone serious next time....

ajm

LOL

scoob_babe

Beth - behave

OllyK

Derek Acora the fake, yeah he's "dead" convincing. He has so far been "posessed" by a man, but his researchers cocked up as it was actually a woman and best yet, been posessed by somebody that never existed! The guy's a fraud. There are far better fakers out there than him, at least try and pick one that's half way convincing.

Oh I don't know, if it gets just one person to question rather than blindly accept then that's a result as far as I am concerned.


Go for it, I shall then claim the JREF $1Million prize along with numerous others and become famous for having proved life after death.

I wont hold my breath, but if you want to agree a secret code word that only you and I know so I can be sure it is you, feel free to PM me.

OllyK

A sock puppet revealed - isn't that against forum rules??

OllyK

Of course science is not always right, especially the first time and you have just shown the strength of science.

A hypothesis is proposed and it is tested. Yes we know people do fiddle results, Mendle was a case in point. However, things need to be repeatable and this allows science to be self correcting if something new comes about, as it did in your example above. When found, the evidence suggested a horn and a hypothesis was proposed for how the whole creature may have looked. Addititional evidence was presented which suggested the orginal hypothesis was no longer correct and so a new one of a thumb spike was proposed and so far that one still holds. (NB: I know very little about the quoted example, so I may be incorrect in some of the detail, it is the process of self correction I am trying to demonstrate)

You are putting the cart before the horse with trying to explain things before they have been shown to be the case. Observation > Hypothesis > Test > Theory. You have to show that your observation is correct before you start trying to explain what you have observed. I am sure there are plenty of things left to be discovered and there are many things we know exist but that we do not have a good explanation for.

Plenty of research has been carried out in to the paranormal and most of it is badly conducted in terms of controlled testing. Scientists are not the best people to design experiments for paranormal research. When observing the natural world, atoms don't try and cheat. In the field of paranormal there is a long history of cheating and all of the experminets that have shown an effect of some kind have poor controls to prevent cheating. When the experiments are reproduced with tightened controls to prevent cheating, the effect goes away.

I am happy to admit that one day somebody may actually be able to provide evidence to support the existence of paranormal / super natural phenomena and on that day I will be delighted and will happily accept its existence, but to accept it with no evidence is foolhardy, as a comparison just think how our legal system would be if you didn't need any evidence to convict somebody!

Drunken Bungle Whore

I do believe Ollyk is in danger of vanishing up his own hyperbole..... (alphabetti Spaghetti for brekki!)

Any bets on how long we need to keep this going before he gets bored of trying to have the last word....?

OllyK

It's the same old same old really isn't it?

Sceptics ask for evidence and the woo-woo's just skirt around the question saying "it's personal", "I can't tell you", "you just have to believe" or just spout dross in an effort to try and get away from actually answering the questions.

Don't worry I won't get bored, we've been keeping up the fight for critical thinking for years on the JREF and other boards and while people try to promote blind acceptance of things for which there are no proof, the sceptics will continue to try and return a bit of sanity to the proceedings.

Sith

Let me just say one thing........

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

olly knows why.

CoobyS

Sorry *****, OllyK is wiping the floor with you...your rants are typical of someone who hasn't the intellegence to put up....therefore...shut up!

Drunken Bungle Whore

Obviously you'll be able to quote the point where I said that.....?

CoobyS - no he isn't, I'm not ranting, and better men than you have tried and failed.

Ollyk is trying to make me out as someone who blindly accepts everything I'm told without any evidence - I'd just like him to point out where I've said thay in any of my posts. All I've every argued for is that fact that it may be true or it may not - which seems to be exactly what he's saying as well but with slightly longer words.

What he's saying isn't wrong - he just has a rather unfortunate way of communicating which comes across as patronising. I'm guessing/ hoping he doesn't mean to.

OllyK

I wasn't aware you had changed your name from DBW to "people" or that you frequented the JREF or other sceptic boards, but hey if you haven't got any evidence, just make stuff up, its easier.

Post #62 that started this all off:
The scientific standpoint is "until you can prove it exists, it doesn't exist". You take the opposite that it is OK to accept stuff exists even if there is no proof. I accept there will be new discoveries in the future, but they will come about via observation > hypothesis > testing and not from "nobody has proved IPUs exist, let's look at proving that today". You inital premise is incorrect.

No, I am saying it is a scientifc fact that ghosts (you can include spirits, ghouls, phycics, mediums etc in that as well if you like) do not exist. To date, no evidence has been presented that shows they exist, therefore at this time (scientifically) they do not exist. If you can provide evidence that they do exist, great, let's develop some tests and look at it and we may be able to prove that they do exist and current scientifc theory would then need to be changed accordingly - that's how it works.

Neither a beliver or a cynic will ever change their mind and I have no interest in trying to convince DBW, that would be a waste of my time. I just think it is important to counter a common and incorrect premise that is used by believers to try and justify their position for the benefit of anybody who may be sitting on the fence.

Yes keep an open mind, but to new evidence that changes our understanding about something. Believing that things could be, may be, might be true despite there being no evidence to support that belief is not keeping an open mind, it is blind faith based acceptance.

Leslie

When I was very young I saw my grandfather open and close my bedromm door one night, He had died the previous week.

No matter how much I think about that I cannot explain it away!

Les

ajm

Pretty easily I would have thought. You were young, hence impressionable with a vivid imagination, your grandfather had just died, part of your subconscious wanted to see him again and so you did.

OllyK

Yes I saw that posted earlier. If you are saying "I had a strange experience and can't explain it, but I accept that" then good for you.

There are plenty of rational explantions, but presenting them in response to an un-verifiable personal experience achieves little as we saw when ajm tried to make some suggestions to B2Z.

If you are trying to label your experience as a "ghost" then you must do what you have to do if "I can't explain it" isn't good enough for you. I am not sure that attributing your experience to a fuzzy paranormal phenomena that has no evidence is desparately productive. I don't understand all the ins and outs of quantum mechanics but I don't attribute the bits I can't explain to the "pixies" either.

Leslie

Yes I forgot I had posted that experience earlier.

Well I just put it in for what it was worth. I definitely remember it happening very clearly, I was not dreaming, and I was not thinking about anything beyond the book I had been reading which had nothing to do with ghostly apparitions. I thought my parents had just got back in the house, which they had not, and I definitely recognised my grandfather who was unmistakable for anyone else.

Can't say any more than that!

Les

OllyK

Les, while I am sure you are an honest person, I am sure you can also appreciate that such a story of an event many years ago, while interesting, provides little in the way of investigable evidence to science. It is an anecdote, it is important to you personally, but beyond that, it means little.

Leslie

You are probably right in what you say OllyK, I have no evidence, he did not hang around for me to ask him about whats was going on.

Its like flying saucers, some people claim to have seen them, I have seen unusual things in the air too. But unfortunately no tangible evidence. I do tell the truth though.

Things are so often not what they seem to be.

Les