Totally disgusted with Subaru dealer
#33
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How come you have to remove the link, it's then not published on the bbs.
I am more than happy to publish it on my site btw if anyone wants me to - its not hosted in the UK
I am more than happy to publish it on my site btw if anyone wants me to - its not hosted in the UK
#34
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sid
By publishing the link, we are de facto providing a medium by which the information can be seen.
Think of it this way & i'm sure you've seen it in the news at some point.
<an example>
Prince Charles is alledged to have been caught doing something.
He takes out an injunction.
None of the papers (or indeed BBSs) can report anything about what he's alledgedly been caught doing.
For the purpose of this example, the fact that he's taken out an injunction is irrelevant - that just goes to advise people that he is aware & ready to take action against reporting.
So
because SN is a reporting medium, it cannot publish itself (& by dint of the fact that SN is a medium for publishing for others, its a publisher) anything that is defamatory or libelous etc without fear of being prosecuted - same as the TV stations or Tabloids/Broadsheets in the Charlie case...
Hope you understand.
By publishing the link, we are de facto providing a medium by which the information can be seen.
Think of it this way & i'm sure you've seen it in the news at some point.
<an example>
Prince Charles is alledged to have been caught doing something.
He takes out an injunction.
None of the papers (or indeed BBSs) can report anything about what he's alledgedly been caught doing.
For the purpose of this example, the fact that he's taken out an injunction is irrelevant - that just goes to advise people that he is aware & ready to take action against reporting.
So
because SN is a reporting medium, it cannot publish itself (& by dint of the fact that SN is a medium for publishing for others, its a publisher) anything that is defamatory or libelous etc without fear of being prosecuted - same as the TV stations or Tabloids/Broadsheets in the Charlie case...
Hope you understand.
#35
once again it's rules for one and rules for another if this was a specialist they would be given every chance to explain themselves yet because it's a dealer we are not allowed to even name them let alone give them a chance to explain. how can this be fair? if we named them then at least they would know and have half a chance to tell their side of the story. i think the mods are being very hipocritical (spelling) after the tsl thread (i think)
#36
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Originally Posted by Puff The Magic Wagon!
c'mon guys
Although it is deplorable behaviour & I fully understand everyone's desire to know who to avoid, I'm afraid the laws of this land preclude SN allowing such name & shame activity. Please bear this in mind, its not the webmaster's fault.
Thanks
Although it is deplorable behaviour & I fully understand everyone's desire to know who to avoid, I'm afraid the laws of this land preclude SN allowing such name & shame activity. Please bear this in mind, its not the webmaster's fault.
Thanks
As Ive said in two posts that have been deleted; the whole point of Scoobynet is to further our interests, not those of ****-poor dealers, surely?
Simon
#37
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Originally Posted by dietbruboy
"The statement(s) alleged to be defamatory must also be a false statement of fact. Since name-calling, hyperbole, or exaggerated and heated words cannot be proven true or false, they cannot be the subject of a libel or slander claim."
So you can just call the dealer a **** then.
Sounds reasonable to me.
So you can just call the dealer a **** then.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Simon
#38
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Originally Posted by GC8
Id like to add something to this too: as any solicitor here will confirm, libel law is for the extremely wealthy and the chances of a Subaru dealer coming up with more than a letter from low quality solicitor is so unlikely as to be dismissed: even if they had grounds.....
Simon
Simon
#39
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so what your saying is people can't slag me off on here, otherwise i can have em???
right off to the northern section................
feel some sueing coming on.........
right off to the northern section................
feel some sueing coming on.........
#40
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Originally Posted by parallax
I've had my My00 JDM STi off the road in my dealers hands for a month now with gearbox problems. and my dealer has bent over backwards to help. They have supplied me free of charge with an My04 legacy whilst we patiently wait for the correct tools to arrive ex jpn. I say again the dealer has bent over backwards. why because I spend money there. The point is that I deal directly with the owner, and the owner sees value in keeping his customers happy. deal with him and if they are still too supid to do something then name them away. Oh and the bad news for you guys I guess is that my dealer is in New Zealand. With such a small population, every Dollar counts. Oh and for me its about my car... couldn't give a hoot what th number plate is..(lol)
Simon
#41
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Originally Posted by GC8
And your point is? My point was; that a truthful remark can not be libelous. Even though your comment doesnt refer to mine at all, you have quoted me.
Simon
Simon
#42
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I do not believe that a customers disappointment/dissatisfaction with a dealers service could be viewed as libelous !!!
His, the customers, views are honestly given and are subjective not libelous.
Magazine articles contain similar views on dealer service often.
The Moderators on SN are over reacting.
The UK is not a police state, YET.
His, the customers, views are honestly given and are subjective not libelous.
Magazine articles contain similar views on dealer service often.
The Moderators on SN are over reacting.
The UK is not a police state, YET.
Last edited by coolangatta; 28 October 2004 at 04:19 AM.
#43
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Sometimes we forget that we do live in democracies. Take a look at the so called biggest Democracy in the world where even good ol' voting is rigged. To get back to subject however. I still say go to the Dealer Principal if they still don't "get it" in a free world you have every right to go public. Though I live thosand of mile away I am still aware that UK is still a democaracy, yet subject to laws but if we never stand up and be counted just because some bush lawyer makea ruling then nothing will ever change. Don't put up with the dogsh!te in the salad!!!!
#44
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Surely if one states fact and not supposition or potentially libelous statements its OK?
For instance, Acme Subaru left my drain plug loose ................
Whats contentious about that?
STEVE.......
For instance, Acme Subaru left my drain plug loose ................
Whats contentious about that?
STEVE.......
#45
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Who said it was ACME? I didn't name names. How did you guess it was them?
I agree with your comments, BTW. It is a statement of fact, not slander, hearsay, fiction, guesswork or whatever.
To use an earlier analogy, if Prince Charles WAS seen leaving Netto with a carrier bag full of corned beef, then surely there is no legal reason why the Daily Asswipe can't print the headlines PRINCE CHARLES GETS BEEF AT NETTO!
I agree with your comments, BTW. It is a statement of fact, not slander, hearsay, fiction, guesswork or whatever.
To use an earlier analogy, if Prince Charles WAS seen leaving Netto with a carrier bag full of corned beef, then surely there is no legal reason why the Daily Asswipe can't print the headlines PRINCE CHARLES GETS BEEF AT NETTO!
#46
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...anyway, I'm going to have a 'word' with the sales manager this morning, and tell him what the chaps in service said, that should prove interesting.
#47
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Ahhh - back to the original thread at last. Suggest we follow the moderators rules, and assist Mr StickyStuff with his dealer questins without collecting a lynch mob to go and beat them up. Certainly no need for catharsism at this stage!!! :-)
#49
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Not trying to be awkward - just trying to help people out and thinking out loud for a way round the censorship, but what if the link on here doesn't go the exact page??
I'm sure there are LOADS of google links here, and google could be linking to the "not-so-libellous" comments.
I'm sure there are LOADS of google links here, and google could be linking to the "not-so-libellous" comments.
#51
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Change of dealer is going to happen anyway. Just waiting for their response after speaking to the sales manager.
Please, people, stop PM'ing me for the details!!!!
My inbox has never been so poplier.
Please, people, stop PM'ing me for the details!!!!
My inbox has never been so poplier.
#52
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There are other things to consider her aswell guys. Firstly, posting up your experience if it is based on fact (and you can prove it) is fine. However, that doesn't stop the company concerned, getting the hump and deciding to pursue this. If they wanted to cause Scoobynet problems they could. We've gone into this many times before. It is based on past experience - this site almost closed a few years back because of comments posted. Some of the comments posted here about what or what is not a libelous statement are very true. However, to prove this for each particular post or topic would mean taking the matter to court - no one wants that.
Simon and Shaun have to deal with many legal matters arising from this site (you'd be surprised). All these complaints / letters have to be taken seriously and investigated. This takes time, effort and money. Please remember that the publishing media are the first people these guys come after - whether it is justified or not.
Now, I personally don't believe this is right or fair, but that is the society we live in. Yes, it does restrict what we post and yes it does mean we can't post up anything we like. We'd just ask that you respect and understand our position. We are not doing this to be awkward, we are doing it to limit the impact on Scoobynet - this means we are perhaps overly cautious with threads like this.
Chris
Simon and Shaun have to deal with many legal matters arising from this site (you'd be surprised). All these complaints / letters have to be taken seriously and investigated. This takes time, effort and money. Please remember that the publishing media are the first people these guys come after - whether it is justified or not.
Now, I personally don't believe this is right or fair, but that is the society we live in. Yes, it does restrict what we post and yes it does mean we can't post up anything we like. We'd just ask that you respect and understand our position. We are not doing this to be awkward, we are doing it to limit the impact on Scoobynet - this means we are perhaps overly cautious with threads like this.
Chris
#54
anymore of this and I'm moving this to policy
Seriously though the SN team has plenty of experience regarding the legal possiblities and dangers that can arise from a thread like this
I know it seems like we're overly concerned and paranoid even at times but I'm afraid thats just how it has to be ..
Trust us guys
If we could we would
Niall
Seriously though the SN team has plenty of experience regarding the legal possiblities and dangers that can arise from a thread like this
I know it seems like we're overly concerned and paranoid even at times but I'm afraid thats just how it has to be ..
Trust us guys
If we could we would
Niall
#55
Originally Posted by DazW
Have Anders & 22B.com ever been sucessfully sued??? ...thats both a question & a hint to Sticky!
#56
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At the end of the day (orthe beginning depending on where you are). Communication is what its all about and thank goodness for sites like this where we can have democratic debate in support of freedom of choice. After all we can do or say any thing we want so long as we are prepared to accept/take responsibility for it and if Sticky Stuff is prepared to accept responsibility and the consequences of, for whatever he/she says then in a true democracy no one else has to worry. And I'd have to add the key word is responsibility, coz' it sounds like that's where the dealership dropped the ball.
Last edited by parallax; 28 October 2004 at 10:51 AM. Reason: crappy spelling
#57
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Sticky Stuff - How about a new thread telling us all about how you saw a scoob for sale at a local XYZ subaru dealer.
mods - would this contravene any rules?
mods - would this contravene any rules?
#58
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The point is - the company or individual does not need to carry out their threat to sue Scoobynet. The fact that they set the wheels in motion with lawyers etc means that Simon and Shaun cannot ignore it - regardless of the outcome, this is where the time, effort and money goes! We'd prefer it if it didn't get to that stage.
Dracoro - it would probably be fine if you hadn't just posted up the suggestion here!
Dracoro - it would probably be fine if you hadn't just posted up the suggestion here!
#60
Originally Posted by Chris L
The point is - the company or individual does not need to carry out their threat to sue Scoobynet. The fact that they set the wheels in motion with lawyers etc means that Simon and Shaun cannot ignore it - regardless of the outcome, this is where the time, effort and money goes! We'd prefer it if it didn't get to that stage.
Dracoro - it would probably be fine if you hadn't just posted up the suggestion here!
Dracoro - it would probably be fine if you hadn't just posted up the suggestion here!
As an analogy - should a business sue a council, when the council allows a person to stand outside the business they have had bad service (with a big banner that says "don't shop here", just because the council are allowing that person to stand on the pavement?
I do understand that this is a forum run for mine and others enjoyment so as such would not want to compromise them or our use of the forum (and would follow their rules), but I do not condone big corporate bullies or any attempt to stifle free speech.
PS Can't we use lots of words like allegedly, supposidly, according to etc? Most of the rest of media seems to get away with it?