Well Done Scotland
#121
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So Saxo Boy I see you advocate decat for Scoobs in your "benefits of giving up smoking for Scooby owners". This potentially increases pollution surely or is this an example of selective principles in that the extra pollution out of a decat can't be seen and no one actually stands close to an exhaust and breathes in.
#122
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
Having personal experience of this I'd have to say that its a BAD comparison. The problem with fear and panic attacks is that willpower makes them worse setting up something of a spiral of decline. The harder you fight and the harder you resist the worse it becomes (adrenaline being pumped into the system).
Willpower is not exclusively about adrenalin sessions. Willpower, by definition, is :
- self-command
- self-control
- presence of mind
All aspects which can be used in combating irrational fears and panic attacks as well as nicotine avoidance.
#123
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
The problem with fear and panic attacks is that willpower makes them worse setting up something of a spiral of decline. The harder you fight and the harder you resist the worse it becomes (adrenaline being pumped into the system).
#124
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps willpower is defined differently from the word I'm looking for but in order for me do things/not do things (eat, not eat, give up smoking, booze, whatever) requires a form of 'energy' a 'grit' and 'determination' but energy, grit and determination make panic attacks worse. You need to reduce your energy during an attack but it doesn't work using willpower to try and do that. I know that makes little sense. Maybe a smoker that has panic attacks can explain better.
#125
Also, the other thing with panic attacks is that once it has passed, I bet you feel it was a totally pointless irrational fear that came over you....and you resolve to beat it next time it happens.
Is that not equally as weak as someone who reaches for a ***, and 5 minutes later realises they really didn't need it, and they'll try to resist that irrational urge the next time?
Is that not equally as weak as someone who reaches for a ***, and 5 minutes later realises they really didn't need it, and they'll try to resist that irrational urge the next time?
#126
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It depends how you fight. The key to panic attacks is still a strong willed resolve to create calm, rational, thoughts. (ie, been here before, nothing happened then, nothing will happen now, etc etc).
#127
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
I've been there forcing myself to think rationally, saying to myself that its fine and there is nothing to be worried about....
Now, what were we saying about rationality and giving up smoking?
#128
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Back to pro's and cons of doing so Imlach:
Pro's is freedom from myself and the attacks but the cons are that I know I'd abuse that freedom even though deep down I don't really want to. If I knew I could be around women and sh@g them on the first night without knowing them then I'd wind up going on a one-night stand spree which is not someone I want to be deep down (although on the surface its very appealing). The bottom line is that my attacks often keep me on the straight and narrow and don't affect my life often enough to be a real problem.
I'm with a lovely lass now and benefit from knowing that I a) don't want to cheat and b) pysically couldn't. It's like double protection
Pro's is freedom from myself and the attacks but the cons are that I know I'd abuse that freedom even though deep down I don't really want to. If I knew I could be around women and sh@g them on the first night without knowing them then I'd wind up going on a one-night stand spree which is not someone I want to be deep down (although on the surface its very appealing). The bottom line is that my attacks often keep me on the straight and narrow and don't affect my life often enough to be a real problem.
I'm with a lovely lass now and benefit from knowing that I a) don't want to cheat and b) pysically couldn't. It's like double protection
#129
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't take this too personally Kenny (you know I just like to debate), but are you admitting to us that just perhaps, your brain sometimes doesn't think rationally??
#130
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
Of course I'm admitting that, nobody is rational all the time. However, I can go from as calm as calm can be to stressed to bits in about 0.01s. It takes many more minutes to decide you need a ***, walk to the shops, buy a packet, open it and spark up. You have time for your willpower to kick in and say, 'I DO NOT NEED THIS'
This chemically induced urge lasts for minutes at a time. Sadly, long enough to reach for a packet, and light up.
#131
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We could go round here all day. The bottom line is I dont smoke and thankfully you smokers won't be harming me passively for too much longer. And that is all I have to say on the matter
Good luck to those trying to quit and those that are happy to go on then may your life be long
Good luck to those trying to quit and those that are happy to go on then may your life be long
#132
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
LMAO Cons, ****s the environment up a bit. Pros, 30hp......bring it on
Cos of the rush. Just like drugs, sex ,exercise , mountaineering, bungee jumping, work (for some).Add your own favourites.
We are a species prone to addiction.
Oh and the ones I disagree with most are the ones addicted to power and telling others what to do. I mean religious leaders and politicians of all parties.
I am not against a ban on smoking in public places.
#133
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh and the ones I disagree with most are the ones addicted to power and telling others what to do
#134
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
I hope that isn't a dig. If you think that is me you are quite wrong. Half the reason I get stressed around women is fear of them saying 'yes' when they mean, 'I'm not comfortable and you're an ******* for making me feel like this'
#137
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
I can dictate whether you can extend you house or not.....now THAT is power
And anyway I can always appeal to John Prescott esp. if I'm a big developer and have contributed to NL.
#138
Scooby Regular
****....
I go away, have some dinner, come back, and you guys are on to panic attacks
What next ?
Kenny
Glad to see you have read Dr Claire Weeke's books and I hope you are getting the full benefit of them...
You knew this was coming.. but........
I would disagree on the willpower side of things and panic attacks. You need willpower to maintain a constant resolve and determination to keep practising in the correct way and to take whatever the ******* throw at you.
One day, months or years later (even armed with all this information) a **** off flash of panic will hit you in the pit of your gut, just when you thought they were all done and dusted and you'd almost forgot all about them. To me that's when real willpower comes into play, combined with the correct inner voice, (something that Imlach touches on earlier in the thread)
It would be all too easy to slip back into old habits and start adding a second fear i.e. They are back again, i thought they'd gone, oh no, I'm going through this again, and it's going to be really bad this time !!
Because you've maybe been panic free for sometime, the contrast between the renewed panic and the relative good health you've been enjoying, makes this new panic seem even worse than previous attacks. It's here where I feel the will is truly tested...
Anyway smoking sucks and there are plenty of days when my brain flashes a big I want a joint/cigarette but treated the same way as a flash of panic, the craving soon passes
I go away, have some dinner, come back, and you guys are on to panic attacks
What next ?
Kenny
Glad to see you have read Dr Claire Weeke's books and I hope you are getting the full benefit of them...
You knew this was coming.. but........
I would disagree on the willpower side of things and panic attacks. You need willpower to maintain a constant resolve and determination to keep practising in the correct way and to take whatever the ******* throw at you.
One day, months or years later (even armed with all this information) a **** off flash of panic will hit you in the pit of your gut, just when you thought they were all done and dusted and you'd almost forgot all about them. To me that's when real willpower comes into play, combined with the correct inner voice, (something that Imlach touches on earlier in the thread)
It would be all too easy to slip back into old habits and start adding a second fear i.e. They are back again, i thought they'd gone, oh no, I'm going through this again, and it's going to be really bad this time !!
Because you've maybe been panic free for sometime, the contrast between the renewed panic and the relative good health you've been enjoying, makes this new panic seem even worse than previous attacks. It's here where I feel the will is truly tested...
Anyway smoking sucks and there are plenty of days when my brain flashes a big I want a joint/cigarette but treated the same way as a flash of panic, the craving soon passes
#141
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe that is the case for you Sipie but you have to remember that my panic attacks are nowhere near as bad as the ones you describe. They are at worst mildly inconvenient and thankfully quite rare and usually only cause when I put myself in situations I'm not deep down comfortable with. I really don't want to discuss it any more as I really believe it is of little relevance.
Just back from a club and my clothes stink
Regarding planning decisions, the majority of applications I clear are through delegated powers and need no checking by my manager or councillors
Just back from a club and my clothes stink
Regarding planning decisions, the majority of applications I clear are through delegated powers and need no checking by my manager or councillors
#142
Addiction to smoking is as bad as any other drug addiction, especially when the tobacco companies are alleged to put additives in the tobacco to make it worse. Totally cynical lack of concern for the grief that cigarettes cause due to their excessive greed if that is true.
It takes an enormous amount amount of will power, usually coupled with some kind of unusual event in one's life to manage to kick the habit.
Of course smokers know the risks and the addiction forces them to continue hoping that they will get away with it and if they dont, that maybe an operation will save them. Its amazing the excuses you can think up to keep at it.
I think it does no harm to relate bad experiences in relation to smoking in an attempt to help those who want to kick the habit. That really is the reason why we ex smokers do that, we want to help others escape from such a dangerous pastime since we understand better than any how difficult it is and the enormous benefits od success.
One of the most easily apparent advantages is the amazing amount of money that you save which really increases your quality of life.
Les
It takes an enormous amount amount of will power, usually coupled with some kind of unusual event in one's life to manage to kick the habit.
Of course smokers know the risks and the addiction forces them to continue hoping that they will get away with it and if they dont, that maybe an operation will save them. Its amazing the excuses you can think up to keep at it.
I think it does no harm to relate bad experiences in relation to smoking in an attempt to help those who want to kick the habit. That really is the reason why we ex smokers do that, we want to help others escape from such a dangerous pastime since we understand better than any how difficult it is and the enormous benefits od success.
One of the most easily apparent advantages is the amazing amount of money that you save which really increases your quality of life.
Les
#143
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
Maybe that is the case for you Sipie but you have to remember that my panic attacks are nowhere near as bad as the ones you describe. They are at worst mildly inconvenient and thankfully quite rare and usually only cause when I put myself in situations I'm not deep down comfortable with. I really don't want to discuss it any more as I really believe it is of little relevance.
Just back from a club and my clothes stink
Regarding planning decisions, the majority of applications I clear are through delegated powers and need no checking by my manager or councillors
Just back from a club and my clothes stink
Regarding planning decisions, the majority of applications I clear are through delegated powers and need no checking by my manager or councillors
I don't want to fall out over this by the way, just enjoying the cut and thrust of intellectual and vaguely philosophical debate.
#144
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are quite correct vege they are not absolute but few people actually have such power. Neverthelss I'd write a refusal report so tight the reporter couldn't help but rule in my favour.............so.......
#145
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
You are quite correct vege they are not absolute but few people actually have such power. Neverthelss I'd write a refusal report so tight the reporter couldn't help but rule in my favour.............so.......
#147
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that is ultimately what this thread boils down to senior Imagine how horrified someone that is T-total would be if they went into a pub and came out a few hours later merry despite not having a drink because everyone in there was getting absolutely blattered. It's just not cricket.
#148
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: a more anarchic place
Posts: 1,828
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isn't this whole argument fuelled by the definition of a 'public place' ?
OK, legally, a pub is technically a public place, but to all intents and purposes it is a private place to which the public have access.
The owner should be able to permit smoking if they wish and those who do not want to smoke passively do not need to enter the premises but can toddle off to a pub where the owner does not allow smoking.
It is the blanket nature of the legislation that causes so much aggravation and that is typical of governement legislation. They really do not have the mental capacity to deal with anything which is not black or white.
I've never smoked but I respect the right of others to do so if they wish, as long as they respect my right to be able to get away from their "exhaust fumes" in certain places
OK, legally, a pub is technically a public place, but to all intents and purposes it is a private place to which the public have access.
The owner should be able to permit smoking if they wish and those who do not want to smoke passively do not need to enter the premises but can toddle off to a pub where the owner does not allow smoking.
It is the blanket nature of the legislation that causes so much aggravation and that is typical of governement legislation. They really do not have the mental capacity to deal with anything which is not black or white.
I've never smoked but I respect the right of others to do so if they wish, as long as they respect my right to be able to get away from their "exhaust fumes" in certain places
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post