Jerome

Which army are you refering to?

ozzy

Tiggs, if the footage is the same as the TV, then yes I've seen it. The footage I've seen was censored.

If the link (which is now removed) was just showing this, I still don't see the point since it's on TV anyway. If it was an uncensored version, then I stand by my remarks.

Wasn't there two Iraqi's alive in the building? They shot one (on the right against the wall) and then another started begging for mercy and telling them he would provide information.

I was taught to shoot to kill, not wound or mame. I wasn't told to shoot the unwarmed wounded though. Easy saying that sitting in a nice warm office. If I'd been shot at for months on end then I may have a different viewpoint.

At the end of the day, there are rules against shooting casualties and since he's been caught on camera and a complaint has been made by a civilian, the incident has to be investigated and acted upon under military law.

Stefan

Tiggs

the footage was as per the TV

Leslie

The original link was posted with a warning so one could only assume that the contents were uncensored. Therefore saying that the link was the same as shown on Ch 4 means nothing since that version is reputed to be censored.

The point I made and still support is that I take no pleasure in watching an unarmed man being shot. Or anyone else for that matter. Therefore I was not prepared to watch the video. As far as I am concerned, such a scene is pure tabloid sensationalism and is not worth the candle!

Of course servicemen are trained to kill an enemy especially when the enemy is threatening their lives. But there is a convention which forbids them to murder unarmed prisoners. Like many others on this forum I spent long enough in the services to know that. We were not trained to act like robots killing everyone in sight. One reason why the British troops are respected by the Iraqis. I certainly object to such an uninformed and unpleasant generalisation.

We do not know all the facts in this example, whatever it looks like on the video. I think it is not down to us to judge the man's action, the court martial will be in a far better position to do that after the US investigation.

Les

Tiggs

"Earlier in the footage, as the Marine unit that Sites was accompanying approached the mosque, gunfire can be heard from inside. Marines who were already in the mosque emerge, and a lieutenant in the approaching unit asks if there were insurgents inside and if the Marines had shot any of them. An exiting Marine can be heard responding affirmatively. The lieutenant then asks if they were armed, and the Marine shrugs. "

where have you read what you stated above...that these men had been "treated" by US forces already?????????????????????

Taff107

Pot, kettle and black

gsm1

click here

The mosque had already been fired upon on Friday and gone through by marines. On Saturday another unit claimed there was activity in there and entered the place with the camera crew.

Tiggs

thats GROSSLY different to what you stated.

you suggested US forces had looked after the wounded and left them there for other US soliders to then find and kill.

the actually facts SEEM to be that the building had been cleared then they found ppl in it again (who were doing their best to kill them!)....so they re-cleared the building.

gsm1

I said nothing of the sort. Listen to one of the marines as they enter, he says, "These are the wounded they left behind".

scoobchrissy

iTrader: (1)

probly meaning the iraqi's left them behind.....

pauld37

Indeed

Diesel

Les' I dont equate watching such footage as automatically deriving pleasure from it. Basal human curiosity doesnt equate to pleasure in the normally balanced. I actually dont feel I need to watch this footage so I wont, but if I did I would have a definitive opinion on what happened and could judge if it was malicious or defensive.

I chose to watch one of the beheading videos once - denying it exists seemed a bit ostrich-like. Half of me wishes I hadnt and the other half is now educated about what absolute horror is. I had no real concept of that before and it shook my little world...

D

Leslie

Yes I understand your point Diesel about wanting to see if you can work out who was at fault. I preferred to leave that to the official investigation.

Apart from the horror to me of seeing it I also feel it is an assault on the person's dignity somehow to watch their murder. I don't mind admitting that even though I may well be accused of some kind of weakness in that respect.

I used to be "terribly Surrey" too but come from Hersham so you will know my accent doesn't suit either.

Les

Tiggs

errr....yes you did.

gsm1

No, I didn't.

Read Here for a fuller version of events rather than the loose summarised translation which some news agencies have put out implying the marines had just entered the building for the first time just after exchanging fire.