Notices
Non Scooby Related Anything Non-Scooby related

!!!!! They're at it again.

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 27 November 2004, 11:11 PM
  #31  
tiggers
Scooby Regular
 
tiggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by unclebuck
So we just roll over and accept it, right?
Up to you ub!

My opinion is voting another party in isn't going to fundamentally change anything and fundamental change is what is required IMHO. Short of that what else do you suggest - raise a people's army and seize control of the state?

If you are happy to cling to your belief that things have only gone wrong since 1997 and voting Howard in will instantly solve all the country's ills then that's up to you - go right ahead and place that vote. My opinion is somewhat different that's all.

All the best,

tiggers.
Old 27 November 2004, 11:40 PM
  #32  
ALi-B
Moderator
Support Scoobynet!
iTrader: (1)
 
ALi-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The hell where youth and laughter go
Posts: 38,041
Received 301 Likes on 240 Posts
Default

raise a people's army and seize control of the state
Exactly - this country needs a Citizen Smith:



Power to the people!
Old 27 November 2004, 11:44 PM
  #33  
tiggers
Scooby Regular
 
tiggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ALi-B
Exactly - this country needs a Citizen Smith:



Power to the people!
Good old Wolfie (or Foxie)

Or how about the Popular People's Front of Judea?

tiggers.
Old 27 November 2004, 11:47 PM
  #34  
logiclee
Scooby Regular
 
logiclee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Notts, UK
Posts: 4,935
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

By far the biggest lobbying group for the new Domestic electrical installation laws have been the insurance companies rather than the HSE.

Don't be suprised in the next few years if you can't get cover without an electrical safety certificate and I can see a few claims being rejected for non-certified DIY work.

Can you just see it.

Owner....
I want to insure my house.

Insurer....
Yes sir, any modifications to original spec?

Has a familiar ring to it doesn't it.

Cheers
Lee

Last edited by logiclee; 27 November 2004 at 11:49 PM.
Old 28 November 2004, 12:01 AM
  #35  
unclebuck
Scooby Regular
 
unclebuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ALi-B
Exactly - this country needs a Citizen Smith:



Power to the people!
But... that's the whole paradox imo

The 'hard left' are now the 'new right' ...



(I should know because I'm one of them......)

Last edited by unclebuck; 28 November 2004 at 12:05 AM.
Old 28 November 2004, 12:28 AM
  #36  
Vegescoob
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
 
Vegescoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Jason Crozier
You are wasting your time Lee, as interesting as your input is, and I am interested, the agenda is clear for this thread. Next.
Jason brings up ins. cos. If he's right the houseowners of this country are going to face some big bills if the electrics I see in lots of houses are anything to go by. Then they will want certs. for every aspect of a building. Still if that meant you could buy a house in ok condition I don't mind. But costs will be immense.

To expand the theme though. A few years ago there was an EU proposal that post manufacture car mods. be banned. It was defeated then. I suspect it will reappear in the next few years and get through. After all the EU type approves a vehicle for EU roads so can argue it should stay as approved.
I look forward to the cries of anguish on SN and shouts of Nanny State.
Or maybe by then the indoctrination will be complete!
Old 28 November 2004, 12:38 AM
  #37  
gsm1
Scooby Regular
 
gsm1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Jack City
Posts: 1,500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Cobblers to the regs, I'm going to do my own work.
A competent DIY'er can in many cases do a better job than a qualified electrician who is counting time and money over quality of workmanship.
Old 28 November 2004, 01:00 AM
  #38  
Huxley
Scooby Regular
 
Huxley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: In the garage or in bed
Posts: 7,278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ajm
Sounds completely unenforceable to me, people won't bother with the bureaucracy.


I'm going to continue doing all my own wiring regardless of what nanny Tony thinks. Add that to my growing "criminilised by Blair" rap sheet.
Old 28 November 2004, 09:44 AM
  #39  
andypugh2000
Scooby Regular
 
andypugh2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Founder of surreyscoobies.co.uk
Posts: 2,889
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I can see this going the same way as surveyors when you buy a house, yes they will always find damp in a wall and possible wet/dry rot and loft beetle then recommend a company that can do the work, just happened to the nice lady next door, I told her after she had just spent thousands having injection dampcourse done that she had just been had by the survey scam and that I know for a fact her house was treated 8 years ago exactly the same thing when the previous owners bought it, its the inspectors that need inspecting half the time
Old 28 November 2004, 02:25 PM
  #40  
boomer
Scooby Senior
 
boomer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unhappy

Does anyone have a (n official) link as to exactly what these new regulations consist of?

FFS, for those of us lucky enough to buy our OWN houses, we now have to ask nanny if we want new windows, a new socket or whatever. The next thing will be compulasry ID cards and chips to track where, when and how fast you are driving

mb
Old 28 November 2004, 03:18 PM
  #41  
Vegescoob
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
 
Vegescoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by boomer
Does anyone have a (n official) link as to exactly what these new regulations consist of?

FFS, for those of us lucky enough to buy our OWN houses, we now have to ask nanny if we want new windows, a new socket or whatever. The next thing will be compulasry ID cards and chips to track where, when and how fast you are driving

mb
That's the plan. Remember "things can only get better".
Old 28 November 2004, 05:28 PM
  #42  
Jerome
Scooby Regular
 
Jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

IIRC more than 10 people a year die putting their trousers on, so look forward to trouser inpectors next.
Old 28 November 2004, 06:40 PM
  #43  
sparkykev
Scooby Regular
 
sparkykev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ex WRX now a Harley Iron. Warwickshire. Oh what fun...
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Try here.

www.niceic.org.uk/partp/partpindex.html
Old 28 November 2004, 06:44 PM
  #44  
unclebuck
Scooby Regular
 
unclebuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

More meddling by the big brother state....

Where will it all end?
Old 28 November 2004, 07:10 PM
  #45  
johnfelstead
Scooby Regular
Support Scoobynet!
 
johnfelstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,439
Received 53 Likes on 30 Posts
Default

Cutting corners on electrical work is plain dangerous - and from 1 January 2005 it'll be breaking the law too, according to the UK's leading electrical safety body, the NICEIC. The new electrical safety law - entitled Part P - aims to tighten up electrical safety in the home by clamping down on cowboy electricians and on homeowners doing DIY electrical work. The law will require that all electrical work in homes be carried out by a 'competent' person, such as an electrician registered with the NICEIC.
Despite the fact that faulty electrics result in 19 deaths and over 2,000 non-fatal electric shock accidents each year, until now electrical installations have not been subject to Building Regulations, so employing competent contractors for all electrical work has been left to the common sense of the homeowner.
There we go, We cant have common sense getting in the way of another expense.


"This new electrical safety requirement is long overdue - we're delighted that the law will now demand that homeowners and occupants employ only government-authorised electricians for electrical work and don't embark on DIY electrics," said Jim Speirs, director general of the National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contracting (NICEIC).

The electrical safety law will be included in the Building Regulations for England and Wales, and requires any persons carrying out work on fixed electrical installations in the home - such as sockets, switches, fuse boxes and ceiling fittings - to follow the fundamental principles of BS 7671, the British Standard for electrical installations.

New law spells end to DIY electrics and cowboy electricians

Don't let cowboy electricians put your life at risk - the NICEIC already has a roll of Approved Electrical Contractors, you can find one in your area by visiting www.niceic.org.uk or call the NICEIC on 0870 013 0381. Ends Notes to editors: The NICEIC is an independent, non-profit making body, with a register of electrical contractors that meet its rules, and Governmental controls on technical standards. It is for this reason, and because all electrical contractors are periodically assessed by one of its 60 area engineers, that the NICEIC symbol is one that you can trust. NICEIC electrical contractors are identified by the symbol accompanying their advertisements in directories and local papers, and on company stationery and vehicles.
clearly the driving force for this is from the traders seeing their profits threatened by the changing rooms generation.


Further information on Part P What is Part P?
Part P is a brand new part of the Building Regulations for England and Wales. It comes into effect on 1 January 2005, and brings all electrical installation work in dwellings into a 'controlled service' under the Building Regulations. This means that, for the first time, the technical standard of electrical installation work in dwellings (generally houses and flats) will be subject to statutory requirements. These requirements will apply not only to new construction, but also to any alterations or additions to existing installations, including full or partial rewires.

What is the purpose of Part P?
The law, which applies to electrical installation work in dwellings and connected gardens, greenhouses and outbuildings, is expected to raise the competence of electrical installers, and significantly reduce the number of deaths, injuries and fires caused by defective electrical installations.

How will it be enforced?
Part P will be enforced by Local Authorities and failure to comply will be a legal offence.

How will this affect me?
When the time comes to sell your property, your purchaser's solicitors will ask for evidence that any electrical installation carried out after 1 January 2005 complies with the new Building Regulations. There will be two ways to prove compliance:

1. A certificate showing that the work has been done by a government - authorised electrical contractor, such as an NICEIC contractor.
2. A certificate from the local authority saying that the installation has approval under the Building Regulations.
solicitor: have you rewired your bedroom after jan 1 2005
owner: nope
solicitor: thanks, thats another £50 for my time.
owner: your welcome
Old 28 November 2004, 07:43 PM
  #46  
ALi-B
Moderator
Support Scoobynet!
iTrader: (1)
 
ALi-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The hell where youth and laughter go
Posts: 38,041
Received 301 Likes on 240 Posts
Default

faulty electrics result in 19 deaths and over 2,000 non-fatal electric shock accidents each year
I love statistics. Now, what actually electrocuted them? All those nasty wires hiding behind the walls, or the dodgy flex on the hoover/iron/hairdryer?

Electrical appliances are a far greater threat to life in terms of electrical safety. And what is done? Nothing!
Old 28 November 2004, 07:57 PM
  #47  
Vegescoob
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
 
Vegescoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Yes and when I was sorting out the electrics on my current house, remember only 5 years old, I consulted a member of the IEE. When I showed him the system and the faults perpetrated by a "professional" he said "yes I have similar problems on contracts I oversee".
Membership of a trade organisation is no guide to competence. IMHO.
Look at complaints about new houses and complaints about the NHBC from such as The Consumers' Association and on BBC Watchdog.
Old 28 November 2004, 09:57 PM
  #48  
gsm1
Scooby Regular
 
gsm1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Jack City
Posts: 1,500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Vegescoob
Membership of a trade organisation is no guide to competence. IMHO.
Look at complaints about new houses and complaints about the NHBC from such as The Consumers' Association and on BBC Watchdog.
Exactly, when I've been doing work I've uncovered so many screw ups and short cuts made by supposed professionals.
If they want to tighten up there must be more checks made on existing 'qualified' installers and serious consequences if their work is found to be short of the regs.
Old 20 December 2004, 09:59 PM
  #49  
boomer
Scooby Senior
 
boomer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Angry

BTT,

a week and a half before normality ends

mb
Old 20 December 2004, 10:02 PM
  #50  
ajm
Scooby Regular
 
ajm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The biosphere
Posts: 7,824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by boomer
BTT,

a week and a half before normality ends

mb
Not for me... business as usual at chez ajm! While I own my house I'll do whatever wiring I please and Tony won't know!
Old 20 December 2004, 10:07 PM
  #51  
Vegescoob
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
 
Vegescoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by boomer
BTT,

a week and a half before normality ends

mb
Yep and the Editor of Car Mechanics in his Jan 05 editorial muses on this and wonders how long before diy car maintenance goes the same way.
Old 20 December 2004, 10:09 PM
  #52  
Vegescoob
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
 
Vegescoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ajm
Not for me... business as usual at chez ajm! While I own my house I'll do whatever wiring I please and Tony won't know!
Once you're chipped he'll know!
Old 20 December 2004, 10:36 PM
  #53  
ChrisB
Moderator
 
ChrisB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Staffs
Posts: 23,573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Am I not reading the right document on the HMSO web site?

From Schedule 2B:

DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED

1. Work consisting of -


(a) replacing any socket-outlet, control switch or ceiling rose;

(b) replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;

(c) re-fixing or replacing enclosures of existing installation components, where the circuit protective measures are unaffected;

(d) providing mechanical protection to an existing fixed installation, where the circuit protective measures and current carrying capacity of conductors are unaffected by the increased thermal insulation.


2. Work which -

(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and

(c) consists of -

(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit;

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit; or

(iii) installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding.

3. In paragraph 2 -



"special installation" means an electric floor or ceiling heating system, a garden lighting or electric power installation, an electricity generator, or an extra-low voltage lighting system which is not a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994[8]; and

"special location" means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2.".
I read that as you can still do some bits yourself.
Old 20 December 2004, 10:56 PM
  #54  
tiggers
Scooby Regular
 
tiggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ChrisB
I read that as you can still do some bits yourself.
Yeah, but don't let that minor detail get in the way of another 'nanny state gone mad thread'
Old 20 December 2004, 11:12 PM
  #55  
Vegescoob
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
 
Vegescoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tiggers
Yeah, but don't let that minor detail get in the way of another 'nanny state gone mad thread'
Might I venture to suggest that within 2/3 years such work will also be included.
Just as speed cameras have multiplied, "in the interest of safety".
Vested interests will always seek to expand their influence.
Old 20 December 2004, 11:15 PM
  #56  
tiggers
Scooby Regular
 
tiggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Vegescoob
Might I venture to suggest that within 2/3 years such work will also be included.
Just as speed cameras have multiplied, "in the interest of safety".
Vested interests will always seek to expand their influence.
Nope, cos we'll have had the revolution by then

Seriously though I know what you mean, but it's like the gas plumbing regs we have now - no one will take any notice and things will just carry on as they are except people now have someone to sue when things go pear shaped.

tiggers.
Old 20 December 2004, 11:20 PM
  #57  
Lum
Scooby Regular
 
Lum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

This law is even worse for large installations.

For home users, wiring used to be red and black, now it's brown and blue so be careful.

For 3 phase installations, it used to be
Black - Neutral
Red, Blue, Yellow - for the 3 phases (all live)

Under this law it's now
Blue - Neutral
Black, Brown, White - 3 phase

yep, that's right, live is now coloured neutral, be careful when wiring in an addition to an existing 3 phase solution as you can't just continue to use the old colour scheme any more under this new law.
Old 21 December 2004, 12:09 AM
  #58  
Tim-Grove
Scooby Regular
 
Tim-Grove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,939
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Lum
This law is even worse for large installations.

For home users, wiring used to be red and black, now it's brown and blue so be careful.

For 3 phase installations, it used to be
Black - Neutral
Red, Blue, Yellow - for the 3 phases (all live)

Under this law it's now
Blue - Neutral
Black, Brown, White - 3 phase

yep, that's right, live is now coloured neutral, be careful when wiring in an addition to an existing 3 phase solution as you can't just continue to use the old colour scheme any more under this new law.

Black, Brown and grey actually
Old 21 December 2004, 12:11 AM
  #59  
tiggers
Scooby Regular
 
tiggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

So for all you DIYers playing with three phase.....

tiggers.
Old 21 December 2004, 12:18 AM
  #60  
Tim-Grove
Scooby Regular
 
Tim-Grove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,939
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tiggers
So for all you DIYers playing with three phase.....

tiggers.

i've seen it


Quick Reply: !!!!! They're at it again.



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:10 AM.