!!!!! They're at it again.
#31
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
So we just roll over and accept it, right?
My opinion is voting another party in isn't going to fundamentally change anything and fundamental change is what is required IMHO. Short of that what else do you suggest - raise a people's army and seize control of the state?
If you are happy to cling to your belief that things have only gone wrong since 1997 and voting Howard in will instantly solve all the country's ills then that's up to you - go right ahead and place that vote. My opinion is somewhat different that's all.
All the best,
tiggers.
#33
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Originally Posted by ALi-B
Exactly - this country needs a Citizen Smith:
Power to the people!
Power to the people!
Or how about the Popular People's Front of Judea?
tiggers.
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By far the biggest lobbying group for the new Domestic electrical installation laws have been the insurance companies rather than the HSE.
Don't be suprised in the next few years if you can't get cover without an electrical safety certificate and I can see a few claims being rejected for non-certified DIY work.
Can you just see it.
Owner....
I want to insure my house.
Insurer....
Yes sir, any modifications to original spec?
Has a familiar ring to it doesn't it.
Cheers
Lee
Don't be suprised in the next few years if you can't get cover without an electrical safety certificate and I can see a few claims being rejected for non-certified DIY work.
Can you just see it.
Owner....
I want to insure my house.
Insurer....
Yes sir, any modifications to original spec?
Has a familiar ring to it doesn't it.
Cheers
Lee
Last edited by logiclee; 27 November 2004 at 11:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by ALi-B
Exactly - this country needs a Citizen Smith:
Power to the people!
Power to the people!
The 'hard left' are now the 'new right' ...
(I should know because I'm one of them......)
Last edited by unclebuck; 28 November 2004 at 12:05 AM.
#36
Originally Posted by Jason Crozier
You are wasting your time Lee, as interesting as your input is, and I am interested, the agenda is clear for this thread. Next.
To expand the theme though. A few years ago there was an EU proposal that post manufacture car mods. be banned. It was defeated then. I suspect it will reappear in the next few years and get through. After all the EU type approves a vehicle for EU roads so can argue it should stay as approved.
I look forward to the cries of anguish on SN and shouts of Nanny State.
Or maybe by then the indoctrination will be complete!
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Cobblers to the regs, I'm going to do my own work.
A competent DIY'er can in many cases do a better job than a qualified electrician who is counting time and money over quality of workmanship.
A competent DIY'er can in many cases do a better job than a qualified electrician who is counting time and money over quality of workmanship.
#38
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Originally Posted by ajm
Sounds completely unenforceable to me, people won't bother with the bureaucracy.
I'm going to continue doing all my own wiring regardless of what nanny Tony thinks. Add that to my growing "criminilised by Blair" rap sheet.
I'm going to continue doing all my own wiring regardless of what nanny Tony thinks. Add that to my growing "criminilised by Blair" rap sheet.
#39
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I can see this going the same way as surveyors when you buy a house, yes they will always find damp in a wall and possible wet/dry rot and loft beetle then recommend a company that can do the work, just happened to the nice lady next door, I told her after she had just spent thousands having injection dampcourse done that she had just been had by the survey scam and that I know for a fact her house was treated 8 years ago exactly the same thing when the previous owners bought it, its the inspectors that need inspecting half the time
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Does anyone have a (n official) link as to exactly what these new regulations consist of?
FFS, for those of us lucky enough to buy our OWN houses, we now have to ask nanny if we want new windows, a new socket or whatever. The next thing will be compulasry ID cards and chips to track where, when and how fast you are driving
mb
FFS, for those of us lucky enough to buy our OWN houses, we now have to ask nanny if we want new windows, a new socket or whatever. The next thing will be compulasry ID cards and chips to track where, when and how fast you are driving
mb
#41
Originally Posted by boomer
Does anyone have a (n official) link as to exactly what these new regulations consist of?
FFS, for those of us lucky enough to buy our OWN houses, we now have to ask nanny if we want new windows, a new socket or whatever. The next thing will be compulasry ID cards and chips to track where, when and how fast you are driving
mb
FFS, for those of us lucky enough to buy our OWN houses, we now have to ask nanny if we want new windows, a new socket or whatever. The next thing will be compulasry ID cards and chips to track where, when and how fast you are driving
mb
#43
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#45
Cutting corners on electrical work is plain dangerous - and from 1 January 2005 it'll be breaking the law too, according to the UK's leading electrical safety body, the NICEIC. The new electrical safety law - entitled Part P - aims to tighten up electrical safety in the home by clamping down on cowboy electricians and on homeowners doing DIY electrical work. The law will require that all electrical work in homes be carried out by a 'competent' person, such as an electrician registered with the NICEIC.
Despite the fact that faulty electrics result in 19 deaths and over 2,000 non-fatal electric shock accidents each year, until now electrical installations have not been subject to Building Regulations, so employing competent contractors for all electrical work has been left to the common sense of the homeowner.
Despite the fact that faulty electrics result in 19 deaths and over 2,000 non-fatal electric shock accidents each year, until now electrical installations have not been subject to Building Regulations, so employing competent contractors for all electrical work has been left to the common sense of the homeowner.
"This new electrical safety requirement is long overdue - we're delighted that the law will now demand that homeowners and occupants employ only government-authorised electricians for electrical work and don't embark on DIY electrics," said Jim Speirs, director general of the National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contracting (NICEIC).
The electrical safety law will be included in the Building Regulations for England and Wales, and requires any persons carrying out work on fixed electrical installations in the home - such as sockets, switches, fuse boxes and ceiling fittings - to follow the fundamental principles of BS 7671, the British Standard for electrical installations.
New law spells end to DIY electrics and cowboy electricians
Don't let cowboy electricians put your life at risk - the NICEIC already has a roll of Approved Electrical Contractors, you can find one in your area by visiting www.niceic.org.uk or call the NICEIC on 0870 013 0381. Ends Notes to editors: The NICEIC is an independent, non-profit making body, with a register of electrical contractors that meet its rules, and Governmental controls on technical standards. It is for this reason, and because all electrical contractors are periodically assessed by one of its 60 area engineers, that the NICEIC symbol is one that you can trust. NICEIC electrical contractors are identified by the symbol accompanying their advertisements in directories and local papers, and on company stationery and vehicles.
Further information on Part P What is Part P?
Part P is a brand new part of the Building Regulations for England and Wales. It comes into effect on 1 January 2005, and brings all electrical installation work in dwellings into a 'controlled service' under the Building Regulations. This means that, for the first time, the technical standard of electrical installation work in dwellings (generally houses and flats) will be subject to statutory requirements. These requirements will apply not only to new construction, but also to any alterations or additions to existing installations, including full or partial rewires.
What is the purpose of Part P?
The law, which applies to electrical installation work in dwellings and connected gardens, greenhouses and outbuildings, is expected to raise the competence of electrical installers, and significantly reduce the number of deaths, injuries and fires caused by defective electrical installations.
How will it be enforced?
Part P will be enforced by Local Authorities and failure to comply will be a legal offence.
How will this affect me?
When the time comes to sell your property, your purchaser's solicitors will ask for evidence that any electrical installation carried out after 1 January 2005 complies with the new Building Regulations. There will be two ways to prove compliance:
1. A certificate showing that the work has been done by a government - authorised electrical contractor, such as an NICEIC contractor.
2. A certificate from the local authority saying that the installation has approval under the Building Regulations.
owner: nope
solicitor: thanks, thats another £50 for my time.
owner: your welcome
#46
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
faulty electrics result in 19 deaths and over 2,000 non-fatal electric shock accidents each year
Electrical appliances are a far greater threat to life in terms of electrical safety. And what is done? Nothing!
#47
Yes and when I was sorting out the electrics on my current house, remember only 5 years old, I consulted a member of the IEE. When I showed him the system and the faults perpetrated by a "professional" he said "yes I have similar problems on contracts I oversee".
Membership of a trade organisation is no guide to competence. IMHO.
Look at complaints about new houses and complaints about the NHBC from such as The Consumers' Association and on BBC Watchdog.
Membership of a trade organisation is no guide to competence. IMHO.
Look at complaints about new houses and complaints about the NHBC from such as The Consumers' Association and on BBC Watchdog.
#48
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Originally Posted by Vegescoob
Membership of a trade organisation is no guide to competence. IMHO.
Look at complaints about new houses and complaints about the NHBC from such as The Consumers' Association and on BBC Watchdog.
Look at complaints about new houses and complaints about the NHBC from such as The Consumers' Association and on BBC Watchdog.
If they want to tighten up there must be more checks made on existing 'qualified' installers and serious consequences if their work is found to be short of the regs.
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Originally Posted by boomer
BTT,
a week and a half before normality ends
mb
a week and a half before normality ends
mb
#51
Originally Posted by boomer
BTT,
a week and a half before normality ends
mb
a week and a half before normality ends
mb
#52
Originally Posted by ajm
Not for me... business as usual at chez ajm! While I own my house I'll do whatever wiring I please and Tony won't know!
#53
Am I not reading the right document on the HMSO web site?
From Schedule 2B:
I read that as you can still do some bits yourself.
From Schedule 2B:
DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED
1. Work consisting of -
(a) replacing any socket-outlet, control switch or ceiling rose;
(b) replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;
(c) re-fixing or replacing enclosures of existing installation components, where the circuit protective measures are unaffected;
(d) providing mechanical protection to an existing fixed installation, where the circuit protective measures and current carrying capacity of conductors are unaffected by the increased thermal insulation.
2. Work which -
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,
(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and
(c) consists of -
(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit;
(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit; or
(iii) installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding.
3. In paragraph 2 -
"special installation" means an electric floor or ceiling heating system, a garden lighting or electric power installation, an electricity generator, or an extra-low voltage lighting system which is not a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994[8]; and
"special location" means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2.".
1. Work consisting of -
(a) replacing any socket-outlet, control switch or ceiling rose;
(b) replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;
(c) re-fixing or replacing enclosures of existing installation components, where the circuit protective measures are unaffected;
(d) providing mechanical protection to an existing fixed installation, where the circuit protective measures and current carrying capacity of conductors are unaffected by the increased thermal insulation.
2. Work which -
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,
(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and
(c) consists of -
(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit;
(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit; or
(iii) installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding.
3. In paragraph 2 -
"special installation" means an electric floor or ceiling heating system, a garden lighting or electric power installation, an electricity generator, or an extra-low voltage lighting system which is not a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994[8]; and
"special location" means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2.".
#54
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Originally Posted by ChrisB
I read that as you can still do some bits yourself.
#55
Originally Posted by tiggers
Yeah, but don't let that minor detail get in the way of another 'nanny state gone mad thread'
Just as speed cameras have multiplied, "in the interest of safety".
Vested interests will always seek to expand their influence.
#56
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Originally Posted by Vegescoob
Might I venture to suggest that within 2/3 years such work will also be included.
Just as speed cameras have multiplied, "in the interest of safety".
Vested interests will always seek to expand their influence.
Just as speed cameras have multiplied, "in the interest of safety".
Vested interests will always seek to expand their influence.
Seriously though I know what you mean, but it's like the gas plumbing regs we have now - no one will take any notice and things will just carry on as they are except people now have someone to sue when things go pear shaped.
tiggers.
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This law is even worse for large installations.
For home users, wiring used to be red and black, now it's brown and blue so be careful.
For 3 phase installations, it used to be
Black - Neutral
Red, Blue, Yellow - for the 3 phases (all live)
Under this law it's now
Blue - Neutral
Black, Brown, White - 3 phase
yep, that's right, live is now coloured neutral, be careful when wiring in an addition to an existing 3 phase solution as you can't just continue to use the old colour scheme any more under this new law.
For home users, wiring used to be red and black, now it's brown and blue so be careful.
For 3 phase installations, it used to be
Black - Neutral
Red, Blue, Yellow - for the 3 phases (all live)
Under this law it's now
Blue - Neutral
Black, Brown, White - 3 phase
yep, that's right, live is now coloured neutral, be careful when wiring in an addition to an existing 3 phase solution as you can't just continue to use the old colour scheme any more under this new law.
#58
Originally Posted by Lum
This law is even worse for large installations.
For home users, wiring used to be red and black, now it's brown and blue so be careful.
For 3 phase installations, it used to be
Black - Neutral
Red, Blue, Yellow - for the 3 phases (all live)
Under this law it's now
Blue - Neutral
Black, Brown, White - 3 phase
yep, that's right, live is now coloured neutral, be careful when wiring in an addition to an existing 3 phase solution as you can't just continue to use the old colour scheme any more under this new law.
For home users, wiring used to be red and black, now it's brown and blue so be careful.
For 3 phase installations, it used to be
Black - Neutral
Red, Blue, Yellow - for the 3 phases (all live)
Under this law it's now
Blue - Neutral
Black, Brown, White - 3 phase
yep, that's right, live is now coloured neutral, be careful when wiring in an addition to an existing 3 phase solution as you can't just continue to use the old colour scheme any more under this new law.
Black, Brown and grey actually