OllyK

I have explained why, damage, cost, reliablity of service and also it is still quicker delivered directly by road in most cases anyway. The Post Office were one of the last big companies to carry on using rail and IIRC they stopped in the last few years and now use lorries and planes.

It would cost billions upon billions to get our rail network up to a decent standard again. Just have a dig and see how much has been spent in the last 10 years and how little has been done. Do some research on the West Coast Mainline restoration project and see when that was supposed to have been completed and how much has actually been done and how much it has cost so far.

Flatcapdriver

Beeching was responsible for closing down the majority of our railway network in 1963. Thatcher wasn't even in politics then. You've missed the point yet again.

Buzzer

So Thatcher was never in a position to change the demise then

I think you missed my point aswell
















again.

OllyK

The railways in this country have been underfunded since the second world war. It costs a bloody fortune to maintain and is chronically out of date. The rest of europe maintained investment, we are now in a position where we need to make up over 60 years of under investment, it isn't going to happen, it will bleed this country dry.

OllyK

If you moved 2% of that on to the rail network it would grind to a halt. Also consider how many non-UK trucks there are on our roads!

Buzzer

So we agree that if the rail network was maintained like the Europeans have shown us, we wouldn't be in this mess

How long before action is taken to rectify the countries transport problems

What is the solution. My personal opinion is to do exactly what the BBC article says, you dont agree, so tell me what is the answer?

Buzzer

I would also advocate that Lorries between the hours of say 11.00pm and 5.00am lorries could use two lanes

See, i am magnanimous

OllyK

Beacuse in the 60's the railways were already underfunded for almost 20 years, there was no way enough cash could be pumped in to them to bring them up to standard. Things did not get better over time so the railways were cut back further. It will continue as more and more branch lines provide poorer service and get less customers, can't afford to operate and close. I suspect within 10 years only "mainline" operations will continue and they will be trying to compete with cheap flights for London > Manchester / Glasgow / Edinburgh etc. Branson is already suing Network Rail for loss of business as he has tilting trains in service (that were first seen as the APT back in the 80's) that can't run any fatser than normal as the West Coast Mainline still isn't finished. It also now looks like there will not be the money to complete it to the standards required to allow tilting trains. Add in the cost of the Advanced Warning and breaking systems as well and the railways are just a dead duck.

Leslie

As long as they can rob us blind with the so called road fund tax and not spend it on the roads, they will not bother

Les

Buzzer

So your answer to the problem is?

Jap2Scrap

Ermmm.. This 'trial' is between two junctions so most of your points hardly apply. I see what you're getting at but it's not really relevant Olly.

OllyK

If the investment had been there, yes.

ATM the government are burning in the region of £22 billion per year to prop up a private company (Network Rail) to try and stop the rail network getting any worse.

So if that much is needed to pretty much stand still, how much do you think is needed to sort out 60 plus years of under funding? Are you happy to see a £240 billion bill added to the UK's current deficit and pay the whopping increases in tax to cover it? That would make the US deficit look like a walk in the park.

Flatcapdriver

Olly, I realise that. I was just responding to the ever present muppets who insist on blaming their political nemesis du jour for all the ills of the country, whether it be Thatcher's fault for every failing in this country if you're a Labour supporter, or Blair's if you're a Tory supporter. At the very least, you have to find these attitudes amusing.

As you say, regardless of which party has been in power since WWII the rail network has been woefully underfunded but improving the logistics infrastructure requires the whole network of differing transport systems to be integrated - improving one will not solve the problems facing the UK. Increasing road networks alone is unhelpful when rail, home delivery, water and indeed air transport is not also included.

What needs to be done is to remove the whole issue out of politics with a cross party blueprint for the future to be agreed including investment and infrastructure needs. Of course, this won't happen because the politicians are only interested in short term policies that they can gain political capital from. The other problem is space because, although the UK is the second largest economy in Europe we are a relatively small country which is why we aslo need to utilise older systems such as canals and waterways to help solve this issue.

Anyway, I digress. Back to those bloody lorry drivers.

OllyK

Sure and what happens at the end of the "trial"? The stop it or roll it out across the whole road network. If they roll it out it would be a nightmare. If they are going to restrict it to just short stretches then fine, but somehow I don't they will know when to stop.

OllyK

And indeed they are resurrecting the use of waterways for transport around London.

I think you have it pretty much right, it needs to be an all encompassing policy rather then trying to cut down car use with no viable alternative. It isn't going to happen over night and I don't think any government has the long term vision or bottle to foot the kind of investment bill that will be required. But as we are going to run out of Oil in the next 30 years or so its all a moot point anyway

Buzzer

Dont call me a muppet you pr1ck. HTF do you presume to know my political stance. It just shows you up to be a condescending ***.

ThrustSSC

Strictly, 60mph, but most of them have governors set at 90kph for the EU rules

ThrustSSC

Strictly, 60mph, but most of them have governors set at 90kph for the EU rules.

You stick to 70mph max on the motorway in your car? I think possibly not!

ThrustSSC

Sorry, Chip, but unlikely. The M42 as proposed runs SW-NE, the M6 Toll goes more SE-NW!

Jap2Scrap

Who knows, but even a blathering idiot can see that it'd be mayhem at junctions, both off and on slips. I would surmise that they'd only enforce such a restriction on appropriate stretches of 2 lane motorway or dual carriageways where there are inclines. These are commonly marked as "Slow - Lorries Passing" so they must be well documented.

Flatcapdriver

Wow. You're debating skills are highly developed. I can't decide if you're being deliberately obtuse or you're just plain thick but if you insist on making stupid statements blaming the current problems with our rail network on Thatcher, when it's been pointed out to you several times that she was not solely responsible then you will get lumped in with the muppet brigade.

OllyK

And oddly enough, many moons ago some bright spark came up with "Crawler lanes" that are located at many of these locations. I understand there are plans in place to continue the M1 widening that we currently have around Junc 21 of the M1 and run it right up to about Junc 28 (not that anbody uses the inside lane on the existing 4 lane stretch anyway).

Roads like the A/M42 A14 and such would benefit more from an extra lane and better driver training than restricting trucks yet further.

I reckon this is all so that once they put an extra 60p on a litre of derv they can prosecute the truckers when they try to block the roads with another go slow!

ThrustSSC

Olly, why can't the guy he's passing just do what I did when I was in the cab: lift off for a few seconds? It's only basic courtesy.

I'm firmly in the camp that support this proposal. As a car driver I've got sick of the utter discourtesy of lorry drivers that take miles to overtake. The worst I've suffered was 10.4 miles. Unfortunately for both of them, after he finally got past the BMW that got away first gave them a severe brake test and they lost about 30mph. I have to say it was a reckless manouvre, but one I understood the reasons for.

I just don't get the logic I read here that says: "30 minutes added to your journey is fine. Adding 2 minutes to mine is not acceptable."

NotoriousREV

I don't see what's wrong with letting wagon's do 70mph, surely that would be more helpful?

ThrustSSC

Why don't we banish trucks, coaches and trailer-towing-cars to the left two lanes on these 4-lane stretches? I never did understand that.

Buzzer

May i remind you that it was YOU who descended into name calling

You tell me, you seem to know my political stances, ooh there you go again showing the level of your "highly developed debating skills"

Yes you seem to be trying to ram that one home with accompanying insults thankyou. So by this, you do admit she did have some responsibility then?

I notice you are a "newbie" a tip for you would to be a little more careful about the insults you band about.

If you want to continue insulting me then i suggest it might be best for us to meet up and discuss why you feel compelled to act in this manner?

scooby-si

hope they are going to drop our road tax,wot about doing these pr1cks that sit in the middle lane and out side lane and dont move over,wot happens if iam doing 60mph and the other wagons doing 50mph that mean ive got to wait for him to speed up (i dont think so)

OllyK

While I agree with the sentiment, you can add that to questions for car drivers such as:
1) Why does he have his fog lights on
2) Why is he sitting on my ***
3) Why is he sitting in the middle lane with an empty inside lane.

Some do, so don't. As I am sure you are aware some places have very strict booking in times and if you miss you slot by so much as a minute that's you stuffed for hours. Also people can be selfish - that's probably the bigger issue, the same applies as much if not more to car drivers, they seem to think they have more rights than any other road user for some reason.

I saw somebody do that to an 80 Tonne DROPS once, it was the last thing they ever did. That kind of stupidy does cost lives.

OllyK

That would seem fair enough for Trucks, coaches and caravans, but leave cars with trailers out of it

scooby-si

now wot they should do is ban limiters this will stop the slow over taking