moses

ive stated it many times and also alot have seen simons own graphs and his car is more powerful than mines.


and my engine is made not for reliability but racing, and its bound to blow up a few times a yr with that much power, its made for it , its not made for reliability but sheer aggression.

and evos , u aint supposed to go over 8500 revs and they rc rev to 9500 all the time, brave people i say so its nothing to do with reliability again, it aint supposed to be reved to 9500 , they do it though and suffered for it though by overeving it and not having a rev limiter

my spec is same as simons, his car has been about for yrs, and see as always poor john runs away from the real issue

were talking about spool ups, BIG TURBO VS SMALL TURBO , only reason why i mentioned rc, simon, my own and other cars, didnt i , big turbos have bigger lag, but mr400 turbo has more lag than bigger turbos, so its down to the engine tuner aint it.

for 27k i wouldnt want to tune your car anyway , coz it will only cost me 7k

again u are on about warrantys, i knew my friend u have glasses but your truly needed new specs , were not talking about massive bhp or mr should be mr500

were talking about lag and spool up, please if u read this part properly it will sort out the confusion , like i said only reason i mentioned the other cars was coz of the spool up, THATS ALL

john banks

Agree with you to some degree on lag and spool up, but no one here has stated it yet...

You are blinkered with ideas learned from the extreme mods scene that simply do not apply to warrantied road cars Moses!

I would say that taking the 4G63 blinkers off for just a millisecond that you should consider the implications of a 200 BHP/litre ROAD CAR WITH A WARRANTY. Honda seem to be able to do 120 BHP/litre, BMW not far off but with teething problems on the M3, yes they were both normally aspirated. Then look at the turbo cars on the market, Mitsubishi and Subaru are running far more power per litre than most others with up to 160 BHP per litre on the from the factory models, with the importers in various guises improving on that with maps and exhausts.

If I was an OEM and had to produce a warrantied package, I'd want a turbo running WAY BELOW what it could do. Think of the 260, you can tune that to get another 100 BHP with a sports cat, perhaps a bit more with a decat or higher octane. Then you get the 400, oh surprise, the turbo happens to be probably capable of and spool up like a turbo that could run 500 BHP with grenade tuning.... see a pattern?

How about not running frankly ridiculous boost to get the torque on undersized valves like most Evos do? 2 bar on pump fuel is plain silly for proper reliability 4G63 or not.

They've done right in keeping the turbo big, the boost down, everything cool and sensible. If you could do a better job why don't you volunteer your services, I am sure when you offer to show them your demonstrator in bits they'll be thrilled

moses

i cant believe im still hearing this john i can tell my old friend u aint had nookie for ages



its a gt2871 or something a gt30r so bloody small compared to the gt3037s that most evos use in their tuned up cars

i aint talking about massive bhp so it aint effecting warranty its still 400 bhp but im talking about the spool up

u know, their all fully spooled before 3800 revs not 5500, thats where im getting at. so it doesnt effect the warranty.
if other evos can do it why not these evos

and by the way i just been told, owen made 450 bhp first on the mr400 and blew up the engine, seems the mr400 may have been a rush job to get it on the road.


so they say on the evo forum.

u know sam anyway he is your mate and mines, when his was only a 2 litre he made 386 bhp with 358 ft torque, better spool up and only 1.6 bar

with no forged internals at the time before he done his rods , as u know

john banks

I wouldn't be so naive to believe everything I read on forums Moses. Half of it is envy, people like to compare their MR + £7000 of mods to the new baby, just like I do with my old silver Subaru. Completely natural.

You can't even tell me what turbo they are using or what the torque is at 4000 RPM. Doesn't really make an informed discussion does it?

Rumours, suppositions, "gt2871 or something", rush job don't cut it for me.

Sam's blew up did it not? This is no disrespect to him, but more the reasoning behind over-engineering the 400 package.

Go swallow a compressor map again and look at the implications of running along some nice high efficiency contours.

If you can do it so much better, go and market something like I believe Evo400 does with a warranty. Or Litchfield does with the Type 25. From the other side of the fence things will be different I bet!

moses

lol i just told u its a gt2871 some call it a gt30r, their were 2 specs in the beginning, one blew up

and haha i cant believe this i just mentioned sams blew up, u know why it was standard internals and not forged



im not a engine tuner and yes their are many who do it better and do a better job, simon does 1 yr warrantys on all his engines including 800 bhp ones.

evos come with 3 yrs warranty and so does this, its tuned by their authorised tuner aint it, owen just started doing evos last yr i believe or a yr and a half. before that just the veteran garages used to touch evos.

as usual j banks, runs away from the real issue and starts on something else, having a quicker spool has nothing to do with warranty , can u not get it into your brain sunshine .

ive never ever in my life and seeing thousands of evos, seen an evo fully spooled by 5500 revs except the 930 bhp rc evo, coz of its massive turbo , righfully so without nitrous.

no other evos on the evo forums in the uk clubs, european or american, none of them 400 bhp to 500 have spooled up so late, in our clubs.


i will leave it at their, until john dont get some loving, he will just repeat himself

sweet dreams johnny boy

moses

by the way u know dave gamon, sams best mate

as his turbo is the official evo400 turbo, his turbo day and nights difference between the mr400 and daves, alot better

will get u a graph of his cars and his customers tomorrow

cheers

fast bloke

thing still costs 50 grand, and only seems to be useful 'on the cam' - How did the lap times compare with the Jag diesel?

imi

why does the Evo 400 spool up so late then....why have they done this deliberately.? it must be a nightmare to drive with no boost. do a daily driver i would have expected the turbo to boost @ 3k-3.5 rpm

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

That clutch will be a pain! Drove an M3 just like it

Agree with JB but have to add that the MR400 won't be reliable either. Yes they have built in far more margin than any back street tuner, to cope with the numpties that will buy and thrash the living daylights out of them but they still won't hold together. IMO they have built more warranty costs into the overall price tag as a gamble that a fair portion of owners with that much cash, will not know or want to get the most from it. There will be a few who will be able to afford to track the cars but these will go pop. Others will be on the school run as a car in the collection of latest must haves.

F

john banks

Moses you are going round in circles. Spool up is related to reliability. If you don't understand that there is little point in debating it further. You also haven't appreciated the difference between peak torque at 5500 and no torque until then.

Floyd has a good point too. I hope it isn't that bad, but it would be a headache for them if it is.

C

Moses, the RC car has blown up a fair few times more than you think it has.

According to the people close to them anyway

David_Wallis

Also you are comparing the spool up of cars with larger capacity engines, and have been mapped specifically for one task as mentioned.. no thought to emissions..

does the MR400 have CATS??

David

C

David - yup IIRC it has some sort of sports cat arrangement.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Just my two cents. Very impressed with it as a technical exercise, but when this type of car starts to cost the best part of 50K, it undermines the rationale for the genre.

I think the FQ320 is as much as you'd want to pay. Of course, I'd take the Type 25 Scooby though! ;-)

Best.

messiah

It's a very clever and impressive peice of kit, although I have no doubt there'll be plenty of cars on the Lancer Register that much more capable and didn't cost anywhere near £47k to put together...

The FQ400 would really have to be a "Money No Object" purchase - although I get the impression it's possibly Mitsubishi's equivalent of what's happened with the 22B - a bit of a legend and how much were they when launched?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

How much is a Noble?

Tony

Gutmann pug

Tony ..........£60K and up close next to a porker it looks like an airfix kit

CraigH

But Gary, you get what you pay for. If you want a new Porker as quick as a Noble, you spend £90k on a GT3 (which is still slightly slower).

So 50% more.....

Although obviously a year later the Noble will be worth £2.50 and the Porker about £85k

For a few k more than the EVO400, you can have a new M5......hmmm, tough choice

Gutmann pug

M5 is a fair comment Craig. But the Noble is £13K more. Hardly a small rise

CraigH

Gary,

A GTO-03 lists at £49,950 brand new. Where did you get £60k from? You thinking of an M400? I'd say a GTO-03 would be very equal straightline and a much better package handling wise.

I know Nobles aren't great quality but you'd have to be nuts (or have a family) to take an MR400 over one.

IMO

lord vader

Its a John banks and Moses issue
I would buy 1 to keep it standard and the other to mod.

As for an M5 i would only buy one of those if i was a corporate dinosaur!!!

Im not shure mr stig drove that car well as it looked like he was overwhelmed by the car.
Oversteer into the corner and wrong gear out of the corner.

But it still munched the lambo and most times on the board!!!!!

moses

vader , i dont like to go into detail but the manifold used in the mr400 is ****, my mate had the same one for 2 yrs , with a smaller turbo by the way, amount of back pressure it caused and also came apart by the way.


well the same manifold is used on a bigger turbo now, i think its ****

thats part of the reason i didnt want to talk about, turbo kit has had problems before, but j banks as usual, dont really give a damn about evos, but likes to be a lil girl and argue over jack , used to him by now, so dont really mind.


and chris, rc evo is made for racing, even if they blew it up a few times, they aint selling it to public, its their own

my car i dont think will be reliable, i will be breaking stuff u and i know it, with that much power its def not gonna be reliable, but for me its worth it, as long as it doesnt blow up too much, its made for racing not family. but the issue chris was the spool up , wont u agree, as u said yourself in the evo forum u wont buy it

john banks

Untrue Moses, I love Evos. I do like to argue over jack though, I'll give you that Glad you feel comfortable with that If you prefer the idea of me being female in some way, feel free to indulge your dreams just don't tell me about them

dpb

whos jack?.................

RichiW

The clutch was made out to be far worse than it actually is - i've tried one and its the same as any other 6 plate paddle clutch, easy when you know how.

re: the reliability, my Evo was the first to crack 400bhp along with Dave Gammon's on standard internals and a standard framed turbo, it's been good for the last 10k miles but i wouldnt like to warrant it for another 50k

MattOz

Nice programme. However, anyone else notice how the Murcielago pulled away pretty convincingly most of the time and that the clever camera angles shortened the viewers perspective. When it was clear that the Evo was floundering they cut to another shot.

However, the "through the corner" performance of the Evo was impressive. Can't argue with the handling. Turbo lag can be overcome by dropping a gear or two and the clutch was perfectly useable. Didn't see the Stig having any issues with it!

However, hypothetically and funding available, I don't believe anyone in their right mind would pick an Evo over a Murcielago.

Matt

jason4656

isnt it funny how s/n members have an excuse for every situation, if a scooby loses a race, you get

what about the twisties
maybe he wasnt running full boost
maybe he wasnt trying
he had different tyres
he had his granny in the car
his best friends mothers dogs brothers uncle would be faster

now when an evo shows its stuff, you get

didnt you notice how the camera angles made the evo look faster?? lol cmon pleassee I must have read about 1000 posts on this program, cant say anyone else noticed it, so ill give you that, your comments are original, even if they are very lame

john banks

MattOz is a ex M5 and now 330d owner though I believe.

Most of us don't have Scooby blinkers

RichiW

Dunno Jase - the old MLR's getting more and more like this every day imo, this thread is refreshing compared to the drival about the fq400 on the MLR.

moses

john lol how did u know, i always fantasise about your soft hands and feminine soft voice haha xxxx