tweenierob

PMSL!! that old chestnut!!

Rob

coulty

Are you calling me liar?

What have i to gain from making up stuff? If you think this is BS then call Dastek and ask them yourself. Funny that on the day of the mis-configured software i ran 2, 240bhp runs. But on the day with properly configured software i ran an easy 270bhp.

The problem was to do with the software thinking it was running with only one set of rollers and the calculations were all out.

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

nice to see what extra power you can get by using race fuel.

tweenierob

Dont be so ****in touchy!!!

Jesus i hit a nerve there didnt i!!

IMHo the rollers either give you a figure or they dont, 'it should have been XXX' doesnt cut it i'm afraid!! Fair enough your car made 270 that is fine, and i appreciate that the readings were 30hp down on expected... but FFS!! my car is 450hp, but i am sure the rollers were 100hp down

Rob

tweenierob

That reads as....

My car was down on power, i was pretty gutted but its ok... it was 30hp down..

Rob

coulty

well it is funny that i was expecting 270 after my car had run that at Star. To go and find i had 240 was weird considering i had done nothing to my car. i run plain optimax so no o/b to make results inconsistant.

Gerry @ Dastek had said after that he found he was running the completely wrong config for 4 wheel drive vehicles. Every scoob was down on that day. All the 2 wheel drive cars hit the target what the owners thought they would including my mates standard M3 Evo which hit its 321bhp/259lbs as per brochure spec.

Point proven!

*You hit a nerve because i hate BS figures on here. When people are truthful also about figures or at least know for sure then people love slating them to say that it can't be etc

hugo

I was also there that day and got 273bhp/280lbft with my MY03 STi PPP. On the re-run it got 288/285. Here's the link to Gerrys explanation.

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....3&postcount=59

coulty

Thanks Hugo

Pavlo

Coulty,

On the rolling road day at Dastek, the innertia figures from one axle were missing, so they were indeed down by an amount. Andy's NOS figure however was got from running in innertia mode only, and was correct on the day.

Andy's non nos run was indeed down by the innertia from one axle, but how much this actually affected the figures is anyones guess, it will depend on the gearing, ramp rate, spoolup etc.

So Andy's figures are about 505ish on 10% methanol and 556 with the added NOS.

If 10% methanol is good for 10% gain, then Andy's pure optimax figure would be about 460hp, I think that is a little pessamistic, but we can never really know.

I realise that Andy has his supporters club, but he doesn't need anyone else to tell me how fast his car is, the results speak for themselves.

Paul

Richie200

I was at the rollers with Paul the other day just to see how my fuel runs with the EJ20 lump. I was very impressed with his car as there were no cool down periods beteen runs and the car performed well all day. I have taken down some figures from the day which I will be using for diagnostic purposes. I will also be making a video of the day which I will stick up on here and my website once I have finished editing it. Here are the results for those that are intersted: -

1. Fuel: - Optimax
Ign ADV: - Base map
Boost PX: - 1.7BAR
AFR: - 12:1
EGT: - 900
BHP @ W: - 376
BHP @ Fly: - 501
TQ: - 489lbft

2. Fuel: - Klotz 118
Ign ADV: - +6
Boost Px: - 1.7BAR
AFR: - 12.6:1
EGT: - 890
BHP @ W: - 414.5
BHP @ Fly: - 553
TQ: - 528.4lbft

Great results Paul and nice to see a high torque firgure along with the power. Once the turbo back pressure problem has been sorted it will be interesting to see what else the fuel will do.
Richie

Andy.F

Rob

I have no idea what you are on about ?? The only thing that I have had a problem with was the single plate paddle clutch slipping (which was later traced to suspected grease contamination) I fitted a twin plate HKS which sorted that, then I hit the wrong gear in the dog box, buzzing the engine to 9700rpm (which it survived) but it damaged the front diff which recently failed completely.
It's currently running exactly the same engine as it was prior to totb, I have taken the N20 off as it still runs 10.7 1/4m without it and goes sideways in 4th quite easily as it is
Please elaborate on what you are referring to ?

Andy

ps Thanks Coulty for reminding Rob about the Rolling Road issues at Dastek regarding the low readings, I don't think he will understand though

ScoobyDoo69

iTrader: (17)

why you're all arguing about how much power Andy.F is putting down I really don't know.. he's still one of (i think 2nd?) fastest scoob 1/4mile in the UK? so it shows power is nothing without control.. I think you can all see that he puts his power (whatever that may be) down Very well!

Regards
ScoobyDoo69

tweenierob

Just a bit of banter Andy...

I do agree that i am not very knowlegable with regard to RR operation, i do feel that numbers are more 'believable' when there arent some excuses surrounding them.

IMHO you are a bit of a hypocrit in this respect, how much **** have you given trout/mark etc over engine dyno figures because there was a doubt about something?

IIRC this is the first time you have publicly admitted this

Just thought i would get my wooden spoon out for a change...

Rob

Cant argue Andy's car does produce the goods, no denying that whatsoever!! if i can get a second behind him i will be happy.

R19KET

Rob,

Regardless of any oil contamination, I think that Andy has now got to the stage where no single plate clutch won't be up to his power, and torque, and only a twin plate will do.

Mark.

coulty

Pavlo
it has nothing whatsoever to do with me being a fan of andy's work as it speaks for itself. It is the fact that people can slate a perfectly reasonable (and provable) explaination of why a car ran lower than expected. I would perhaps be less likely to believe a better figured expected if the car had only run itself that day. But as you know it didn't thus my point is proven.
Being a fan of andy's work still can let me be critical too....personally i wouldn't have a 2 door blue car. Hence why mine is white and 4 door...lol.

tweenierob

Coulty, you have hit a nerve of mine now


must write that down in my list of excuses

Understand or not, if the wrong software was used the first time... why not the 2nd...

NEXT:

Rob

Pavlo

Would you care to prove exactly how much power you lost due to the erroneous roller settings on the day? And was that the same as lost by Andy or less? Yes we know there is a plausable reason for some low figures, but we can't be sure how much the difference is until the same cars are retested with the same spec.

You should also be aware that Andy doesn't need help to deal with my banter, his wooden spoon skills are more than up to scratch.

Paul

coulty

Perhaps the fact that my car and many others that have been to Star hit their targets which would prove it was working....anyway if you wanna use that argument then how do we know that Pavlo's car really did 553bhp

Yes i have the plots of both days and of my star one. Mine was one that lost 30bhp which was the same give or take 10bhp as the rest. The cars that were all at the first RR day were retested at the second. I think that proves something!

Why do you keep going back to me helping Andy???? I am just stating my own point of view. I think you are the one that uses a wooden spoon quite a lot.

Stuart

john banks

RR wars that don't involve me for once I should watch/listen more and post less

I tried to get to the first rolling road but blew it up doing a Scottimax dyno special, probably best I did on this occasion given the controversy

R19KET

Stuart,

I suspect that most of the more experienced guys, such as Paul, and Andy, would happily admit that their RR figures are not guaranteed as 100% accurate, and best used as a comparative measure on the day.

We all know that RR figures can easily vary, and 20/30bhp from one to another is nothing, let alone when there is a known software issue.

Mark.

Pavlo

So you lost 30hp give or take 10hp? I don't think Andy was able to retest his car, until his actual figures surface then we can't say precisely how much he should have had the first time, except it was around 500hp, but only proven to 464 or whatever, and 556 with a 50shot they are the facts as they stand. Beyond that it's conjecture, banter and what ifs. We know Andy's car has around the 500hp mark simply from his 1/4 mile times.

Incidentally my car made 503hp at power engineering, and 452hp@5200 rpm at PTS when the misfire stopped play. These results are in line with those, although I have never seen a another car on these specific rollers so it's hard to compare the results usefully.

The point of the exercise was to assess the power potential of Race Fuel in a repeatable a way as possible. If I only have 400hp then that's actually good for me, as it means thay I can look forward to beating my 1/4 miles times much more easily when I progress to 600hp next year.

Paul

tweenierob

I must add to this...

Pauls 553hp... having watched every run...

4 consecutive runs within 1 whp.
no excuses from operator about wrong software etc.
continuous advance and boost changes resulted in expected figures up n down.
Maybe the 1.06bar run was false.. I mean 420hp at 1.06bar cant be real

Must say though, the only tissues needed were to dry our eyes from the race gas, none needed because the results werent good enough..

Rob

coulty

Well fair points from both of you. Perhaps we should level the field and stop "cheating" by using race fuels. Optimax only should show us who is where and help us to determine who MAY have the most powerful car.

btw my car only makes 270bhp @ 1.2 bar so WAY behind yours Paul...respect!

We will see what mine does now i have added a fmic, obx headers and uppipe, 550s, rebuilt ported TD05 and induction kit running with my Microtech MAP based ECU.

Oh and btw i only use optimax

Stuart

chrome

nice figures Paul
good to see the hard work you have put in is paying off.

Pavlo

I didn't use the race fuel for bragging rights, it's a means to an end, specifically a faster car for drag racing. It was also a very informative test, if I have to map with some similar fuel (ie heavily leaded race fuel) again then I know what I am looking at on an Impreza engine.

No doubt it will be of interest to the likes of Andy too ,whose previous experiments with race fuel have not led to worthwhile gains, certainly no more than can be had with good octane booster.

If I had only been interested in the numbers I wouldn't have given out the details of the race fuel at all!

FWIW playing with race fuel and publishing these results has cost me the best part of £300 in fuel and roller expenses, and a pair of partially blown head gaskets. Expenses other people will not, I hope, have to endure.

Paul

911

I admit to not knowing much at all about Race Fuel so don't shout at me:

Can you run it with a sports cat system?
Where do you get it from?
Do you need to adjust pump pressure if you change from Optimax to RFuel for competition session.

Just thinking to have the car mapped (by Forrest Racing/Apexi FC) to Optimax in stock system (Walbro/550cc/20g) but to mount a small (1 gallon) fuel tank/pump spare wheel well mounted to deliver race fuel to the car for hill climb runs only with a tweeked map via Apexi/Commander. Go home on Optimax.(I hope).

Any comments? Other than Pavlo telling me I'm stupid again...

911

Andy.F

The fuel Pavlo used was heavily leaded so you don't want to use that with a cat as it will poison it.
There are a number of unleaded race fuels available that will give substantial gains (10-15%) and if anything actually improve the safety margin regards detonation.

Look here http://www.76andr.co.uk/frameset.cfm

I have tried the R-FT 102 and would like to try R-TE 106 in the future sometime, these fuels are unleaded and designed for turbo engines. They are also oxygenated which means even before remapping they should produce more power.
They have distributors throughout the uk.

Cambridgeshire
Peter Baldwin
01223 207217

18 Cambridge Rd
New Wimpole
Roystone
SG8 5QE

Cheshire
WGT
01606 48866
www.wgtautodevelopments.co.uk
Unit 5&6 Bevar Centre
London Rd
Northwich
CW9 8AU

Devon
Carb & Injection Tuning
01752 256262
www.jre.co.uk
Unit 2, 36 Sutton Rd
Coxside
Plymoth
PL4 0JD

Gloucestershire
Powerstation
01242 238400
www.powerstation.org.uk
Athelney Way
Battledown Ind Estate
Cheltenham
GL52 6RT

Hampshire
EFI Performance Centre
01329 664462
www.efiperformance.co.uk
Hammonds Ind Estate
Stubbington Lane
Fareham
PO14 2PT

Kent
Bexley Motorsport
0208 3049797

10A Lion Rd

Bexley Heath
DA6 8NR

Manchester
Ric Woods
0161 4834810
www.ricwood.com
Unit 5-6-7 Oakfield Rd
Davenport
Stockport
SK3 8SG

Norfolk
Autopoint
01842 766226
www.performancecartuning.co.uk
Unit 1 Audley Court
Fison Way Ind Estate
Thetford
IP24 1HT

Oxfordshire
Bob Watson Engineering
01869 340814
www.bobwatsonengineering.co.uk
Hatch End Industries

Middle Aston
OX6 3PX

Oxon
Owen Developments
01865 820580
www.owendevelopments.co.uk
Building 28
Kingston Business Park
Kingstone Bagpuize
OX13 5AS

Probably one near you

Andy

911

Wow! Thanks Andy for all the info.
PowerStation are next door to one of the big hill climbs and Bob Watson Eng used to do my 911!
Thanks again.
911

Pavlo

For RAC motorsports the R-TE 106 would be good and legal I think. failing that low oxy content 106 octane fuels are available.

Anglo American fuels (used to be the 76 people in the UK ) sell the Sunoco range of fuels which has a cheaper that RTF or RTE 106 unoxygenated unleaded fuel, much the same as the 78 cool blue (but 76 have pulled out of the race fuel market). I think you will find all those dealers Andy has mentioned will order it from Anglo American and you get it direct anyway. Also the technical guys at Anglo American are very helpful.

Paul

StickyMicky

and you and pavlo are both nearly catching up with harveys 2.0`s

lmfao i couldnt resist!!!