Andy.F

Stickymicky did you miss that bit being mentioned earlier in the thread We are all also still well behind Calders 690+bhp 2.2

Andy

M0NEY

Great figures Paul

You lot still moan to much! lol

R19KET

Andy,

Does 690bhp BANG, or should I say gurgle, count though ?

Is this a new catagory of motorsport, run on the dyno until it runs no more ?

One would like to think they should last for at least a couple of 1/4 miles ?

Mark.

Andy.F

lol @ Mark, you were the trend setter there


If you discount a gurgle then Pauls 2.5 result would be out too

Andy

R19KET

Nah, mine lasted a bit longer than that, and when the gudgeon pin snapped, it was a lot closer to a BANG, than a Gurgle


Mark.

Pavlo

I am sure that the gasket would have been fine had I not had the car misfiring like it was a few weeks ago.

As for being behind, I am ahead of where I was in october, and that's all that matters.

Paul

StickyMicky

nope, skimmed over the thread, saw the comments and dived right in with my size 10`s

Andy.F

Thats OK, so did I earlier the ripples are just dying out now

Andy

Richie200

Both the RFT and RFT extreme are very good fuels. I have tested these fuels extensively and prove time after time to produce the results. They do have a low octane rating but due to their specific gravity and oxygen content they make the power. The extreme is however very expensive and with the engines I have tested will only make about 1-2% more power than the RFT. There are however more than just 2 types of unleaded race fuel on the market. I sell 14 different types of unleaded race fuel just form one manufacturer alone including VP 109 which and I quote "produces more power than any other unleaded fuel. Recommended for high boost applications with CR's up to 11:1 or naturally aspirated engines up to 13:1".
Here is the fuel spec: -
Research octane: 109
R+M/2: 105
Motor Octane: 101
Oxygenated
Specific Gravity: .722 @ 60.f

911 you will need to chose your race fuel carefully as there are so many and they are all designed for different environments. The cost varies massively between fuels and you might not make any more power with the most expensive race fuel when compared to something half the price. I have tested most of the race fuel available in the country now, on many of the high profile tuner demo cars as well as my own. Anyone can read a label and say a fuel can do X,Y or Z but without testing on your specific application it doesn't really mean a lot. That is why I have been testing my fuel with Pavlo's engine just to see how it works so I can give you all informed information as to what you will achive rather than guess work. If you need any more info and have any questions just give me a shout mate.
Coulty using race fuel is not "cheating" if you are running 600bhp for instance and have spent £25,000+ developing your engine specifically to run high levels of ignition advance, using optimax will be detrimental to the engine in comparison with using a high quality SEALED container of race fuel, where you can guarentee the contents every time you use it. Using my car for example I make 640bhp using race fuel, which is about 78bhp more than I make using optimax at the same level of boost px. However, although the car is making more power with the race fuel it is also running a lot safer than it would be on optimax at the lower power level.

David_Wallis

richie, can you mail me some contact details, as you say you supply the stuff

Richie200

Dave I'm still in the process of setting up my website but I have been testing racefuel for the last couple of years just to see what works and what doesn't, so that I don't make any false claims and people aren't dissatisfied with the service that I provide. I sell the whole VP and Klotz range which include not only fuel but fuel additives (OB, Nitro power, coxoc, hitrate, nitromethane, methanol etc), racing oils (ester based inc gearbox, engine, motorbikes etc). There are so many products available that really need tailoring to what you require. There would be no point in buying Klotz 118 or VP import fuel to use neat in a stock EJ20 as it isn't really economically viable as you may only require a race fuel concentrate like Klotz Hitrate which works very well by mixing with a pump fuel on a 9:1 basis and yields 105 octane.
You can contact me (Richie) on 07966396059 or e-mail richard@beaumont20.fsnet.co.uk
I have a bulk supply of fuel in the Southend, essex area and can deliver but as fuel is a hazardous good an ADR licence is required for transportation so it often works out cheaper to collect if you are close enough.
Cheers Richie

coulty

No no no....now i really think you are missing the point completely!
It is not about how consistent race fuels are or how much you have thrown in for development, it is about comparisons with other cars and this just makes it harder. All of the UK has relatively easy access to optimax (it being the best fuel octane and det wise) so therefore makes it easier to compare.

If you can't see the ease of this then sod it. I am going for 400 with my car using race fuel, octane boosters and NOS !!!!!!!!

Seriously race fuels should be confined to exactly that....racing!

Stuart

Pavlo

Er yes. That is what I am going to confine it to. It's over £3 per litre, so I don't want to spend £180 filling up the tank.

I don't see you complaining about Andy using methanol in his fuel, or Harvey using race fuel, or CRD using race fuel and nitrous.

When you run this much power, having complete faith in the consistency of your fuel IS important. You do realise that the petrol companies change the fuel in the winter?

Paul

coulty

Am i the only one not seeing sense in this?? If a car like an import needs OB just to run then fine but when you get to high levels then everyone should be on equal ground.

I don't agree with anyone wanting to compete without so called "cheating" in my eyes. I think everyone should run under the same conditions.

What difference does the change in winter fuel make???? Everyone has to run under the same fuel at the same time of year.

Think it is a case of "not seeing the wood for the trees". You guys who run at the top level don't see the drawbacks obviously.

Stuart

Adam M

coulty, I see your point.

My published dyno and rolling road runs have only been using Optimax and NF.

Having said that I spent a shed load on engine development and am interested in what has been said about fuel consistancy as I don't want my engine ever going into unsafe territory.

I have a pectel T6 ecu which has knock control. It has two map calibrations one set for 97 ron and one set for 97 ron plus 5ml per litre NF which is meant to equate to 102 ron. I run a full bottle of NF in every tank and optimax, but most of the time run the 97 only map. This gives me the safety buffer I need so that seasonal and random changes in fuel quality only eat in to the safety net, they don't eat into the pistons!

I don't mind as I am still making 500bhp on the 97 only map.

When you have this kind of money involved, you have to look out for yourself and your wallet. if that means power figures which are publicised have to be interpreted then so be it.

I wouldn't limit myself to running crap fuel just for the purposes of a fair test, the engines in these cars are built by the tuners for the tuners, not to wow people at competitions.

So long as you inform people what blend you are using, I don't see how it can be considered cheating.

Adam M

On another note, Pavlo, I have something sitting on my garage floor which might help your figures!

Tone Loc

iTrader: (1)

What's all this about competeing and cheating.... is there an offical entry form into this stating rules and regulations .

Everybody is free to get what ever power they want from what ever means. How can this ever been seen as fair and under the same conditions....... Can i ever compete with a guy that has millions in the bank...... no. Simple. It's not an FIA govern sport.

Tony.

Pavlo

I think you're the one completely missing the point.

Who is everyone? And what is everyone doing that needs them to 'compete' on equal ground.

I am not competing with anyone on a rolling road, as you have pointed out, there was nobody to compete with!

I compete at events like TOTB, or the up and coming Pro Drag series being laucnhed next year. Race fuel is allowed, so I am going to use it and the 50hp gain thankyou very much.

If I map the engine on fuel that's fresh out of a sealed can, I know that when I use the same fuel again in 6 months time, it will be exactly the same. I will not get a change in AFR or DET resistance down to the fuel, there are already enough variables to contend with.

Who exactly is this unfair for?

Maybe we should all be running standard turbos too, because not to is unfair on people with standard cars?

I AM NOT USING ANYTHING YOU CAN'T BUY YOURSELF!

Paul

T-uk

adam, why is andyf sitting in your garage?

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Coulty,

The figures that Paul achieved on Optimax are already on this thread somewhere, as are figures for race fuel. I can't see your problem TBH.

tweenierob

Coulty you really havent got a clue!!!!

Race gas is cheating... but nitrous isnt...

Define cheating again for me?

Rob

David_Wallis

Theres some bollocks been spouted in this thread.. cheating IMHO is saying that the say for example.. P450 can do 600 hp on optimax with a std engine, or the td06 can do 470bhp on optimax..

And cheating isnt the word I'd use.

as paul says its available to everyone, whether you choose to use it or not is another thing, stating that you are is wrong.. why?

richie, an email address would be good.. its hard to discuss fuel when working hard

David

tweenierob

Re reading.... may be worth noting that David's car isnt a std car

Cheating would be putting sugar in someone's tank

Rob

CustomScoobyIOM

You found it then

tweenierob

SO IT WAS U!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob

Richie200

Hi David here is my e-mail address. richard@beaumont20.fsnet.co.uk

Cheers Richie

Coulty if I or anyone else could rely on optimax 100% of the time we would all be running our cars 1 degree away from det across the whole map. As has been pointed out on many a thread, optimax is the best pump fuel available but it is inconsistant and has a shelf life so to speak. Scoobynet has been around for long enough now and I'm all sure the majority of people on this BB know when someone is talking utter bollox with reguard to power figures by looking at their spec. The reason I chose to use race fuel as I have already pointed out, is that it is safer than pump fuel and I get more power, nothing to do with big'in up power figures, as I will always show the gains over optimax as this proves how good the fuel is that I sell. On the RR the other day with Pavlo I said the fuel would give him another 50bhp above optimax and it made 52bhp so I know it is doing the job. This may be deemed as cheating in some peoples eyes but **** me when you feel the difference this stuff makes on the road you will see why people go down this route.

coulty

If you can actually read my thread properly then i never defined it as cheating....i said it is "cheating" meaning not ethical in a sense but still allowed.

I never said that NOS was alright, i personally think it is just as bad if not worse.

I am sitting here not knowing much (if anything) about how to safely tune a car or get the best out of them but yet i see there is a growing trend to use racing fuels to get the best out of an engine. I am a believer in a road car that you can drive to track/strip/dyno and drive back out again using fuels that you can nip down the petrol station and fill up with. Road useable cars is what tuning should be about not trying to get the most power that you wouldn't even drive on the road in the first place. After all i can't see any of you going down the road burning £180 worth of fuel while popping down to your mate's house!

Yes i know you could on an aftermarket ecu have 2 maps, one for racing fuel and one for road fuel.....it makes sense. But still poses the original argument.

All i am saying is that power arguments on this board are not even worth it when everyone uses different fuels. After all i could change to high octane fuel and beat the lot of you! (LOL not a chance in the world!)

Just my own opinion.
Stuart

tweenierob

You have caught me in a better mood today

I see your point, but maybe you dont quite realise the magnitude of the fuels people are using on the rollers... myself included.. i'm not talking race gas here.

Do you honestly thing that Andy ran on the rollers with straight optimax and N20?

R.

Adam M

stuart/coulty

Power arguments are a different thing.

You are effectively saying you can't compare like with like if people are using non standard fuels.

Fair point, but Paul hasn't hidden anything about which fuel he is using, and he doesn't have this thread here for people to try and better his figures. He is merely stating what has happened. he has made it clear that his car is being set up for drag racing, not drag street driving, so why shouldn't he be allowed to do what he wants to get the best figures possible?

He isn't claiming the highest power on street gas, he is just stating his own results. if you think there is a competition, that is your problem. I don't think he gives a damn if he has broken the rules of your competition.

T-UK, We all know andy can achieve, but I think even he would admit that other people are more than capable of setting up a fast car, and also making pauls faster.

Actually, come to think of it, he probably wouldn't admit that!

Pavlo

Yet you were argueing the point to me about how much power Andy made using both NOS and fuell additives.


Yes I can see that, it doesn't stop you making some very broad comments on the whole situation though.

Funnily enough this is just what I do! Except in between the bit between driveing to, and back from the strip, I put race fuel in. My car has the facility to completely drain the fuel tank to put the race fuel in. If I go to Santa Pod they even have race fuel (76 cool blue) available from a pump.

Wow, what a coincedence! I run in the car on sainsbury's SUL when not using race fuel, and it get's me from A to B just fine, with enough power to spin the wheels at 70mph on normal road tyres.

What is the original argument?

Well fortunately for you I was kind enough to provide figures for pump fuel too! You can pick and chose whatever figures you need to support your paticular (non) argument.

Go on then.

If I trailer my car to an event, does that make your whole pump fuel argument invalid?

Why don't you run your car on 95 RON?

If you want to have a go at me for posting high figures, then I could understand it if I was using racefuel but not telling anyone. However, I have posted both results, even given indications of the difference in mapping, a possible source for the fuel and how much it costs, I really don't see how I could be more open about it.

Paul