CIVIC TYPE R/STNDRD BUGEYE WRX
31 December 2004, 06:32 PM
#31
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OX16
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my experience... (Yawn)
Grandad here.... Now listen up all ye folks.... The two times I have been challenged by a CTR in my Classic (ScoobyECU'd) Wagon... The Honda lost. Simple as that. Even had time to put my pipe down and adjust my slippers.. :-)
Seriously though - both times were on a twisty but fairly fast road. The Honda's were both impressive but lost out big time when coming out of the bends. I'm not talking handling here - I'm talking torque - I was on boost out of the bends and simply walked away.
In a straight line (with no bends and no traffic) the CTR might be quicker after 100mph. Who knows (and who cares??). In the real world of slowing down, speeding up again and again - the torque of the Scooby leaves the CTR wondering what happened.
Seriously though - both times were on a twisty but fairly fast road. The Honda's were both impressive but lost out big time when coming out of the bends. I'm not talking handling here - I'm talking torque - I was on boost out of the bends and simply walked away.
In a straight line (with no bends and no traffic) the CTR might be quicker after 100mph. Who knows (and who cares??). In the real world of slowing down, speeding up again and again - the torque of the Scooby leaves the CTR wondering what happened.
31 December 2004, 06:51 PM
#32
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Wales
Posts: 680
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ufcboxer
WOTCHA GUYS!
OVERHEARD A BLOKE EXTOLING VIRTUES OF HIS CIVVY IN SAINSBRYS C/PRK TDAY , AGREED WITH MOST OF HIS FLOW ( REVTASTIC, GOODHANDLERS ETC, BUT HAD TO CHIME IN WHEN HE BADMOUTHED THE BUGEYE
REKONS STNDRD R CAN LIK WRX ON STRAITS?
ANY VIEWS?
OVERHEARD A BLOKE EXTOLING VIRTUES OF HIS CIVVY IN SAINSBRYS C/PRK TDAY , AGREED WITH MOST OF HIS FLOW ( REVTASTIC, GOODHANDLERS ETC, BUT HAD TO CHIME IN WHEN HE BADMOUTHED THE BUGEYE
REKONS STNDRD R CAN LIK WRX ON STRAITS?
ANY VIEWS?
j
31 December 2004, 08:00 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: BEDS
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Coming from a CTR driver, in a straight line it would certainly be down to the driver.
But on the twisties, the WRX would certainly have the advantage. The handling on the CTR is what really lets it down - I admit I'm not entirely confident taking roundabouts fast in mine.
I've only had one challenge against a bugeye (this was in roundabout city on the xbox
) and it was side by side for a long time until I somehow managed to overtake on a straight - maybe he f*cked up a gear change or something but it was a good race and I even chatted to the driver afterwards.
CTR can be loved or loathed, personally I love mine and have done a few bits to it but always feel that the handling and turning circle is the only disadvantage but u can get used to it eventually.
But on the twisties, the WRX would certainly have the advantage. The handling on the CTR is what really lets it down - I admit I'm not entirely confident taking roundabouts fast in mine.
I've only had one challenge against a bugeye (this was in roundabout city on the xbox
) and it was side by side for a long time until I somehow managed to overtake on a straight - maybe he f*cked up a gear change or something but it was a good race and I even chatted to the driver afterwards. CTR can be loved or loathed, personally I love mine and have done a few bits to it but always feel that the handling and turning circle is the only disadvantage but u can get used to it eventually.
31 December 2004, 10:39 PM
#34
I had a burn up an uphill stretch of dual carriageway with a Type R in a T5 Volvo. When I pulled in for a top up at a petrol station the driver asked what mods it had.My T5 was standard at 240bhp .He was shocked.Similar problem with traction in the T5
Last edited by s70rjw; 31 December 2004 at 10:41 PM.
01 January 2005, 03:00 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: In wrxshire
Posts: 6,725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
who leaves a wrx standard the chassis can take so much more, 40-50% more power no problem. Can you add 50% more power to a ctr, I guess its on the limit for a fwd in standard form.
01 January 2005, 04:52 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by scoobydood
Grandad here.... Now listen up all ye folks.... The two times I have been challenged by a CTR in my Classic (ScoobyECU'd) Wagon... The Honda lost. Simple as that. Even had time to put my pipe down and adjust my slippers.. :-)
...The Honda's were both impressive but lost out big time when coming out of the bends. I'm not talking handling here - I'm talking torque - I was on boost out of the bends and simply walked away.
...The Honda's were both impressive but lost out big time when coming out of the bends. I'm not talking handling here - I'm talking torque - I was on boost out of the bends and simply walked away.
Coming from an PPP'd RB5 to a CTR as i said in the other thread a standard CTR will keep up and with the right driver overtake a standard UK classic/bugeye maybe even blobeye scooby from around 40mph upwards, of course the scoobs will waste us in the launch!
01 January 2005, 05:02 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dai-Tec
CTR can be loved or loathed, personally I love mine and have done a few bits to it but always feel that the handling and turning circle is the only disadvantage but u can get used to it eventually.
What you said is spot on its like marmite, you either love it or hate it, and with K-Pro now fitted i love it
01 January 2005, 06:54 PM
#38
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had a quick shoot with a CTR on a straight stretch from about 50 in a Volvo V70 D5 and they were level, if not the volvo got ahead. I suppose it's about torque.
Adam
Adam
01 January 2005, 08:29 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Half way up
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RB5#111
...a standard CTR will keep up and with the right driver overtake a standard UK classic/bugeye maybe even blobeye scooby from around 40mph upwards, of course the scoobs will waste us in the launch!
01 January 2005, 08:52 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OX16
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ScoobyECU
My ScoobyECU give me extra boost from (.9 I believe) to 1.1 bar.
I virtually never see that kind of boost as I stay off full throttle wherever possible (the exception was when I went to the Isle Of Man :-)
I think it is very unlikely I was running full boost when I went against the Honda's - especially when coming out of bends... I rarely exceed 1bar before backing off...
My (much younger) brother has an Audi A4 2.8 quattro (less than 200hp) and was recently challenged by a CTR. He fully expected to lose for a number of reasons
1) He has less power, 2) He has significantly more weight and c) Power sucking 4wd. However to his surprise he found that up hills he would gain on the Honda.... Thats torque...
I like the CTR - and it's a fabulous achievement for Honda, but the lack of torque is it's biggest downfall...
I find it *very* hard to believe that it would waste a classic Scoob from 40mph (remember classic much lighter than new scoobs). Perhaps from 90mph onwards....?
I virtually never see that kind of boost as I stay off full throttle wherever possible (the exception was when I went to the Isle Of Man :-)
I think it is very unlikely I was running full boost when I went against the Honda's - especially when coming out of bends... I rarely exceed 1bar before backing off...
My (much younger) brother has an Audi A4 2.8 quattro (less than 200hp) and was recently challenged by a CTR. He fully expected to lose for a number of reasons
1) He has less power, 2) He has significantly more weight and c) Power sucking 4wd. However to his surprise he found that up hills he would gain on the Honda.... Thats torque...
I like the CTR - and it's a fabulous achievement for Honda, but the lack of torque is it's biggest downfall...
I find it *very* hard to believe that it would waste a classic Scoob from 40mph (remember classic much lighter than new scoobs). Perhaps from 90mph onwards....?
01 January 2005, 08:54 PM
#41
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: god's own county
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is there any possibility of having a CTR vs Scooby Vs Evo vs Saxo vs Nova vs AMG section?
The answer is simple, on SN the scoob will win it in the twisties, lancer register: the Evo's superior handling will conquer all, CTR forum will confirm that they do indeed trounce anyother jap car due to transmission losses etc etc
But we all know the AMG is the slowest cos even a CTR will beat one
The answer is simple, on SN the scoob will win it in the twisties, lancer register: the Evo's superior handling will conquer all, CTR forum will confirm that they do indeed trounce anyother jap car due to transmission losses etc etc
But we all know the AMG is the slowest cos even a CTR will beat one
01 January 2005, 10:12 PM
#44
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lads,
I had a 1997 Scooby Catalunya for over 3-years and sold it 2-months ago. I now drive a CTR which is a good car depending what the weather is like. In the wet it is all wheelspin city and this is where the a Standard Scooby Classic will win everytime if driven properly. However in the dry the honda is capable of matching a standard Scooby in all departments apart from 0-60 traffic light grand prix. The CTR has a superb gearbox and good brakes in standard form and you can leave the braking till the last minute. I disagree with the lack of torque issue which for some makes the car rubbish. The scooby and CTR are totally different cars to drive. The CTR needs to be driven with a little more respect in the wet otherwise you will just end up in some ditch !
Cheers
Gary.
I had a 1997 Scooby Catalunya for over 3-years and sold it 2-months ago. I now drive a CTR which is a good car depending what the weather is like. In the wet it is all wheelspin city and this is where the a Standard Scooby Classic will win everytime if driven properly. However in the dry the honda is capable of matching a standard Scooby in all departments apart from 0-60 traffic light grand prix. The CTR has a superb gearbox and good brakes in standard form and you can leave the braking till the last minute. I disagree with the lack of torque issue which for some makes the car rubbish. The scooby and CTR are totally different cars to drive. The CTR needs to be driven with a little more respect in the wet otherwise you will just end up in some ditch !
Cheers
Gary.
01 January 2005, 10:32 PM
#45
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: West Lothian, Scotland
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My FTO has exactly the same problem as the CTR - no torque low down - but the 60-100 of an FTO (and CTR I think) is quicker - It's quite simply the turbo in a scooby that makes the difference.....you have to rev an FTO and CTR up high to get the power (mine peaked at 8250rpm on Dastek RR!!) so the scoob destroys us low down - but over distance the FTO can surprise...in saying that...I am getting a Scoob after 3 yrs of FTOs I blame it on the arrival of my wee girl tho
I blame it on the arrival of my wee girl tho
Last edited by pmacFTO; 01 January 2005 at 10:34 PM. Reason: clarifying a few statements :)
02 January 2005, 10:02 AM
#46
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by scoobydood
I like the CTR - and it's a fabulous achievement for Honda, but the lack of torque is it's biggest downfall...
It may have less torque compared to a Turbo'd car but as much as any other N/A 2 litre 4 pot engine, just at a slightly higher rpm thats all !
CTR
Torque........................145lb ft
rpm..........................@5900rpm
Focus ST170
Torque........................144lb ft
rpm..........................@5500rpm
Audi A4 2.0 FSI
Torque........................148lb ft
rpm..........................@3250rpm
306 GTI-6
Torque........................142lb ft
rpm..........................@5500rpm
Clio 182
Torque........................148lb ft
rpm..........................@5250rpm
02 January 2005, 10:03 AM
#47
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by blot
Is there any possibility of having a CTR vs Scooby Vs Evo vs Saxo vs Nova vs AMG section?
The answer is simple, on SN the scoob will win it in the twisties, lancer register: the Evo's superior handling will conquer all, CTR forum will confirm that they do indeed trounce anyother jap car due to transmission losses etc etc
But we all know the AMG is the slowest cos even a CTR will beat one
The answer is simple, on SN the scoob will win it in the twisties, lancer register: the Evo's superior handling will conquer all, CTR forum will confirm that they do indeed trounce anyother jap car due to transmission losses etc etc
But we all know the AMG is the slowest cos even a CTR will beat one
02 January 2005, 10:45 AM
#48
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had an experience with a CTR a few weeks ago, came up behind, then shot past, about 50ish, went after it, didnt catch it until traffic.
When it cleared again, (was strange having other cars on my private test-track) of we went, from about 40 ish, I was in second, waiting to go.
Nothing in it, the CTR wasn't getting away, but I wasnt getting any closer, as the speed rose, I started to gain a little, but slowed, to turn of, as I was on my way to a restaraunt.
Paul
When it cleared again, (was strange having other cars on my private test-track) of we went, from about 40 ish, I was in second, waiting to go.
Nothing in it, the CTR wasn't getting away, but I wasnt getting any closer, as the speed rose, I started to gain a little, but slowed, to turn of, as I was on my way to a restaraunt.
Paul
02 January 2005, 01:26 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tellins, Home of Super Leagues finest, and where a "split" is not all it seems.
Posts: 5,504
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I only ever had a proper play with a CTR once and trounced it in my almost standard MY99 so would imagine a standard would still edge it within the legalities of the UK road laws But my imagining is based on my imagination and not factual facts
I cant see how one can compare an upturned shopping trolley with a rally bred saloon car anyhoo
But my imagining is based on my imagination and not factual facts I cant see how one can compare an upturned shopping trolley with a rally bred saloon car anyhoo
02 January 2005, 02:24 PM
#50
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: In wrxshire
Posts: 6,725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RB5#111
What is this lack of torque ??
It may have less torque compared to a Turbo'd car but as much as any other N/A 2 litre 4 pot engine, just at a slightly higher rpm thats all !
CTR
Torque........................145lb ft
rpm..........................@5900rpm
Focus ST170
Torque........................144lb ft
rpm..........................@5500rpm
Audi A4 2.0 FSI
Torque........................148lb ft
rpm..........................@3250rpm
306 GTI-6
Torque........................142lb ft
rpm..........................@5500rpm
Clio 182
Torque........................148lb ft
rpm..........................@5250rpm
It may have less torque compared to a Turbo'd car but as much as any other N/A 2 litre 4 pot engine, just at a slightly higher rpm thats all !
CTR
Torque........................145lb ft
rpm..........................@5900rpm
Focus ST170
Torque........................144lb ft
rpm..........................@5500rpm
Audi A4 2.0 FSI
Torque........................148lb ft
rpm..........................@3250rpm
306 GTI-6
Torque........................142lb ft
rpm..........................@5500rpm
Clio 182
Torque........................148lb ft
rpm..........................@5250rpm
Exactly against other 2.0 litre NA cars I bet it fairs well against a 2.0litre turbo it doesnt have the torque to match up.
02 January 2005, 05:57 PM
#51
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by chrisp
Exactly against other 2.0 litre NA cars I bet it fairs well against a 2.0litre turbo it doesnt have the torque to match up.
Two cars identical except for gearing and engine.
one at 3000 rpm another at 5000 rpm but both giving the same power will accelerate at the same rate (at that instance) even though the first car has much more torque.
02 January 2005, 06:10 PM
#52
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OX16
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry - it was not fair to say lack of torque - but lack of lowdown torque is more accurate (apologies), All reviews I have read (in many different mags) praise the car no end but point out that the car is gutless at low rpm's.... That is the only reason why I would not buy it since I don't like revving the hell our of my car.... I do not doubt it will whip my **** round a track but on my twisty B roads where I live and drive every day my Scooby should be quicker...
02 January 2005, 08:35 PM
#55
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I used to own a CTR (now i have a blobeye STI) and in the dry i imagine there would not be alot in it once moving i do believe the CTR has a faster 0-100 than a WRX also... but the CTR has a severe lack of torque if you let it slip out of the zone which is pretty hard to keep in (above 6k) and anything other than dry conditions the WRX would pwn it in handling.
04 January 2005, 09:22 AM
#57
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From a previous post of mine for info
********************************
Evening all,
The CTR will get beasted of the lights - end of.
However, once you're rolling there ain't too much in it
************************************************** **********
A couple of videos of CTR versus Scoobs @ Knockhill. First one is of me against a 260bhp classic
http://type-r-scotland.com/files/cal_scooby.wmv (only 10 meg)
This ones of me against ( I presume) a standard Classic.........
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/thedougster/Cal.wmv ( only 7 meg)
************************************************** ***********
I know I always post these clips but some Scooby owners aren't always fully "clue'd up" and require mild education. Yeah, the Scoob drivers in the clip were'nt exactly the Stig but neither am I ! The guy in the 1st clip ( whom I know) was extremely impressed with how the CTR kept up
************************************************** *****
Cheers
Cal
********************************
Evening all,
The CTR will get beasted of the lights - end of.
However, once you're rolling there ain't too much in it
************************************************** **********
A couple of videos of CTR versus Scoobs @ Knockhill. First one is of me against a 260bhp classic
http://type-r-scotland.com/files/cal_scooby.wmv (only 10 meg)
This ones of me against ( I presume) a standard Classic.........
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/thedougster/Cal.wmv ( only 7 meg)
************************************************** ***********
I know I always post these clips but some Scooby owners aren't always fully "clue'd up" and require mild education. Yeah, the Scoob drivers in the clip were'nt exactly the Stig but neither am I ! The guy in the 1st clip ( whom I know) was extremely impressed with how the CTR kept up
************************************************** *****
Cheers
Cal
04 January 2005, 12:06 PM
#59
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Half way up
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's well regarded that scoobs arn't good on track, however it's the 'on the road' performance that matters to most, where the extra low down grunt has an advantage..!
Saying that 'Autocar' did that recent test of sub 20k performance cars (strange the CTR was ommitted..!) where the Clio 182 cup won outright. In that group test the clio lapped their track fastest (expected given it's previous well known blistering track ability even against the CTR) but the interesting thing for me was the 05 WRX wagon was 2nd, only 0.2 sec behind, largely due to the old story of brake fade..! The 3rd fastest was the new golf gti at over 1 sec slower.
Maybe the 05 revisions have upped the ante a bit..?
Saying that 'Autocar' did that recent test of sub 20k performance cars (strange the CTR was ommitted..!) where the Clio 182 cup won outright. In that group test the clio lapped their track fastest (expected given it's previous well known blistering track ability even against the CTR) but the interesting thing for me was the 05 WRX wagon was 2nd, only 0.2 sec behind, largely due to the old story of brake fade..! The 3rd fastest was the new golf gti at over 1 sec slower.
Maybe the 05 revisions have upped the ante a bit..?
