Whitline 24mm rear swaybar
23 January 2005, 02:50 AM
#31
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question for 911
Hey Graham, I was wondering if you could isolate and quantify the effect the MRT top mounts (set to the increased castor on your V3) have on the feel of the steering and handling of your car in everyday driving?
Cheers, John
Cheers, John
23 January 2005, 08:22 AM
#32
My car (Sti v3) first had the ALK and simple settings and the understeet continued, ie full lock while racing on the hill climbs, but really nice on the road, steering all light, direct and self-centering. The top mounts were stock STi.
In the crusade to kill understeer I went direct to the technicians at Whiteline who we great.
From that I went to MRT for the top mounts, race spec. and went for race Whiteline settings (radical).
I noticed on the road
The steering was a little dull, a bit wooden and less sensitive.
The car ran straight and very true, hands off and all that.
Tyre wear was not different
Cornering was great and very confident, but far less centre return. Got used to it!
On the track:
Ballistic!
No understeer
Felt the same in the damp/wet
Times reduced
Came second in the class in the Championship................... Boasting !
Can post a pic if you like of the position of the tops. (make a change to pics of the engine)
911
In the crusade to kill understeer I went direct to the technicians at Whiteline who we great.
From that I went to MRT for the top mounts, race spec. and went for race Whiteline settings (radical).
I noticed on the road
The steering was a little dull, a bit wooden and less sensitive.
The car ran straight and very true, hands off and all that.
Tyre wear was not different
Cornering was great and very confident, but far less centre return. Got used to it!
On the track:
Ballistic!
No understeer
Felt the same in the damp/wet
Times reduced
Came second in the class in the Championship...................
Boasting !Can post a pic if you like of the position of the tops. (make a change to pics of the engine)
911
Last edited by 911; 23 January 2005 at 08:23 AM. Reason: spelling
23 January 2005, 10:10 AM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Slovak Republic
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
23 January 2005, 06:07 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 911
Can post a pic if you like of the position of the tops. (make a change to pics of the engine)
23 January 2005, 06:44 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 5,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Graham- did you buy from MRT direct?
I have been toying with the idea of camber bolts (and maybe switch to the MRT top mounts to finish the handling work on mine.. this summer bear in mind I already have AGX KYB's... )
I would be curious (and grateful) to take a sneaky peek at your geometry setting too
PM me if you wish to avoid all the 'riff raff' getting the insider info
LOL
I have been toying with the idea of camber bolts (and maybe switch to the MRT top mounts to finish the handling work on mine.. this summer bear in mind I already have AGX KYB's... )
I would be curious (and grateful) to take a sneaky peek at your geometry setting too
PM me if you wish to avoid all the 'riff raff' getting the insider info
LOL
Last edited by chrome; 23 January 2005 at 06:50 PM.
24 January 2005, 07:13 AM
#39
I bought my top mounts from TEG Motorsport when they were MRT dealers.
Dead easy to buy direct from them in Oz.
If you really want to get serious with the understeer then I feel these are essential. You can remove the ALK or leave them on.
Fitting is very easy, and I would add the camber bolts at the same time.
As to the settings, these are public property!
I simply took them from the Whiteline web site for their Radical hill climb car. The only thing I left alone were the crazy track-only spring rates! 400 Lb in the fronts I think!
When I had the car set-up at the old Ralliart in Dudley, I had to sign a disclaimer as the technician did not believe the angles!
Car drives a dream, and races better!
911
Dead easy to buy direct from them in Oz.
If you really want to get serious with the understeer then I feel these are essential. You can remove the ALK or leave them on.
Fitting is very easy, and I would add the camber bolts at the same time.
As to the settings, these are public property!
I simply took them from the Whiteline web site for their Radical hill climb car. The only thing I left alone were the crazy track-only spring rates! 400 Lb in the fronts I think!
When I had the car set-up at the old Ralliart in Dudley, I had to sign a disclaimer as the technician did not believe the angles!
Car drives a dream, and races better!
911
Last edited by 911; 24 January 2005 at 07:15 AM. Reason: spelling, English, content!
24 January 2005, 10:54 AM
#41
FAO John
John,
Just read part of this thread and can confirm what you say about the understeer when fitting both bars as opposed to just the rear.
This is my setup
MY98 WRX
22mm Zerosports F + R antiroll bars
Whiteline uprated rear roll bar mounts
Powerflex solid alloy rear drop links
Standard front solid drop links to alloy bottom arms
Standard dampers with Eibach lowering springs
I get bad understeer and have recently bought a standard front bar to test the settings as I bought the car with the zerosports bars already fitted.
Should get it fitted soon. I will report back.
Just read part of this thread and can confirm what you say about the understeer when fitting both bars as opposed to just the rear.
This is my setup
MY98 WRX
22mm Zerosports F + R antiroll bars
Whiteline uprated rear roll bar mounts
Powerflex solid alloy rear drop links
Standard front solid drop links to alloy bottom arms
Standard dampers with Eibach lowering springs
I get bad understeer and have recently bought a standard front bar to test the settings as I bought the car with the zerosports bars already fitted.
Should get it fitted soon. I will report back.
24 January 2005, 11:10 AM
#42
Scooby Regular
Welloilbeefhooked.
Do you know what geometry settings you have? As Graham already pointed out, his car still understeered until he fitted MRT top mounts and dialled-in Whiteline's aggressive geometry.
When does the car understeer? corner entry, power on exit, mid corner, .......
Do you know what geometry settings you have? As Graham already pointed out, his car still understeered until he fitted MRT top mounts and dialled-in Whiteline's aggressive geometry.
When does the car understeer? corner entry, power on exit, mid corner, .......
24 January 2005, 11:17 AM
#43
Scooby Regular
Graham,
Can you confirm if this is your "mystical" Whiteline hill-climb settings:-
# Front alignment = camber -3:25, toe -2mm, caster +4.2
# Rear alignment = camber -2:5, toe -2.5
Stefan
P.S. sure you can't squeeze a little more out of those top mount settings
Can you confirm if this is your "mystical" Whiteline hill-climb settings:-
# Front alignment = camber -3:25, toe -2mm, caster +4.2
# Rear alignment = camber -2:5, toe -2.5
Stefan
P.S. sure you can't squeeze a little more out of those top mount settings
24 January 2005, 04:59 PM
#44
Ozzy,
Not sure of the settings, but it was set up at scoobyclinic a while back. I think it has the prodrive settings. Also, I run 17" ST2's with 205's and I am thinking of going for 215's with a better geo setup.
Who is the nearest to Sheffield?
Do scoobyclinic do any aggresive settings?
Not sure of the settings, but it was set up at scoobyclinic a while back. I think it has the prodrive settings. Also, I run 17" ST2's with 205's and I am thinking of going for 215's with a better geo setup.
Who is the nearest to Sheffield?
Do scoobyclinic do any aggresive settings?
24 January 2005, 06:51 PM
#45
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 5,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if you take the lads athw whiteline hill climb settings, im sure they will be able to nail it for you 
(or sell you some camber bolts and top mounts if they cant!! LOL)
(or sell you some camber bolts and top mounts if they cant!! LOL)
24 January 2005, 08:19 PM
#46
Ozzy, yes i think that is about right.
They list it all plain and for all to see on the details of the car.
TBH it is 2 years now and I can't remember all the details, but i simply copied it all down onto the Job Sheet and Ralliart did it.
It actually took their 'Subaru' technician nearly 6 hours to set-up! (and charged me 4 as quoted ), but there had been a lot of changes complete with slightly wider rear track etc.
The top mounts gave good caster and needed the camber bolts too to get the neg camber.
The settings are for radial tyres, and if I go to slicks (real ones) then some of the neg camber will have to come off due to being cross plies.
Been ages since I looked at the MRT/Whiteline sites, so will check to see if it's all still there.
911
They list it all plain and for all to see on the details of the car.
TBH it is 2 years now and I can't remember all the details, but i simply copied it all down onto the Job Sheet and Ralliart did it.
It actually took their 'Subaru' technician nearly 6 hours to set-up! (and charged me 4 as quoted
), but there had been a lot of changes complete with slightly wider rear track etc.The top mounts gave good caster and needed the camber bolts too to get the neg camber.
The settings are for radial tyres, and if I go to slicks (real ones) then some of the neg camber will have to come off due to being cross plies.
Been ages since I looked at the MRT/Whiteline sites, so will check to see if it's all still there.
911
24 January 2005, 10:09 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
Graham,
The only thing I can find on the Whiteline site about "hill climbing" is this page - http://www.whiteline.com.au/Project/...RD/default.htm
It mentions their settings at the bottom.
I could find life on Titan quicker than info on their site
Stefan
The only thing I can find on the Whiteline site about "hill climbing" is this page - http://www.whiteline.com.au/Project/...RD/default.htm
It mentions their settings at the bottom.
I could find life on Titan quicker than info on their site
Stefan
24 January 2005, 10:24 PM
#48
Ozzy, yes that is it!
It's the crappiest web site I know. You try getting in deeper on the product range itself. Used to drive me mad.
Now you know why it's been 2 years since I looked at it.....
BUT, the gold dust is in there.
Graham
It's the crappiest web site I know. You try getting in deeper on the product range itself. Used to drive me mad.
Now you know why it's been 2 years since I looked at it.....
BUT, the gold dust is in there.
Graham
01 February 2005, 10:54 PM
#50
It was a long time ago, but I think 350 lbs in the front and 80% of that in the rear.
The 100/80 ratio is very important as well as the rating.
The horrid AVO struts I have (you get what you pay for) need to be set at 80% hard front and 60% hard rear to damp them well.
I think I must add that I am only concerned with weekend blasts/competition with my STi, not daily driver comfort (got an X type Jag for that...)
The Sti reminds me what fun driving can be, and the old 911 what a real car is about.
Graham
The 100/80 ratio is very important as well as the rating.
The horrid AVO struts I have (you get what you pay for) need to be set at 80% hard front and 60% hard rear to damp them well.
I think I must add that I am only concerned with weekend blasts/competition with my STi, not daily driver comfort (got an X type Jag for that...)
The Sti reminds me what fun driving can be, and the old 911 what a real car is about.
Graham
17 April 2005, 08:58 PM
#52
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 5,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just took the plunge and bought some MRT (well; Noltech who make them for MRT) top mounts..
I thought I would resurrect this thread for its great nuggets of chassis info
I have put a new post in in suspension with some great articles from whiteline....
Nice and condensed in one easy to find thread
I thought I would resurrect this thread for its great nuggets of chassis info
I have put a new post in in suspension with some great articles from whiteline....
Nice and condensed in one easy to find thread
Last edited by chrome; 17 April 2005 at 09:05 PM.
17 April 2005, 10:27 PM
#54
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 5,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well I'm a bit surprised at the hill climber settings!! LOL
# Front alignment = camber -3:25, toe -2mm, caster +4.2
# Rear alignment = camber -2:5, toe -2.5
I wonder if the above settings would decimate road tyres in short order?
The naughty boy in me wants to try some Dunlop D01J Road Legal Slicks with some lightweight wheels for drag/track work- but need to find the cash first, and work out to hide it from the wife
(and maybe have some reserve cash if the extra torque from the stickier tyres kills my tansmission!
)
No doubt JohnF is waiting in the wings to do this to me for even thinking about using the above settings :
My car IS a road car after all.. but I'm dying with curiosity.
What works for a race car wouldnt always work for a road car surely?
although I do have an airfield day coming up on May 1st
# Front alignment = camber -3:25, toe -2mm, caster +4.2
# Rear alignment = camber -2:5, toe -2.5
I wonder if the above settings would decimate road tyres in short order?
The naughty boy in me wants to try some Dunlop D01J Road Legal Slicks with some lightweight wheels for drag/track work- but need to find the cash first, and work out to hide it from the wife
(and maybe have some reserve cash if the extra torque from the stickier tyres kills my tansmission!
)No doubt JohnF is waiting in the wings to do this to me for even thinking about using the above settings :
My car IS a road car after all.. but I'm dying with curiosity.
What works for a race car wouldnt always work for a road car surely?
although I do have an airfield day coming up on May 1st
Last edited by chrome; 17 April 2005 at 10:33 PM.
18 April 2005, 12:53 AM
#56
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Fuzz
Anti roll bars also available up to 29mm
Got to be worth a try
Got to be worth a try
I'm just wondering if anyone has an opinion about the following quote from http://www.spdusa.com/big.htm Has anyone experienced (and survived!
) the "tank slapper" phenomenon described below? 
Personally I run a 19/22 setup with Prodrive springs/struts (which, in my case, are only slightly stiffer than stock), with no problems. Read: Not squirrely!
Several owners have asked if a 20mm is great, why not use a 22mm instead?
The issue is two fold. One, as mentioned in "anti-roll bar concepts", we are only changing the proportion of front bar to back bar and a 19/22 set up is down right squirrelly to drive. Two, very stiff bars and soft to medium springs require a much stiffer shock setup for good handling. The way too stiff bars will become so powerful under cornering that if you loose it and you have to unload the chassis, the stiff bars will tend to create a real tank slapper (swerving left to right in the middle of a corner) that few drivers ever recover from. You go off to the left or the right depending on several factors not under your control anymore, so why spend more space explaining it?
Be prudent, if using stock spring rates or "fast road" setups. Subaru engineers felt the 19/18 and 19/20 combinations are the best and Prodrive agrees. If running road race suspension in the 400//300 range, big bars on the order of 21/22 will work, but your kidneys won't if you try to drive the setup on the street.
The issue is two fold. One, as mentioned in "anti-roll bar concepts", we are only changing the proportion of front bar to back bar and a 19/22 set up is down right squirrelly to drive. Two, very stiff bars and soft to medium springs require a much stiffer shock setup for good handling. The way too stiff bars will become so powerful under cornering that if you loose it and you have to unload the chassis, the stiff bars will tend to create a real tank slapper (swerving left to right in the middle of a corner) that few drivers ever recover from. You go off to the left or the right depending on several factors not under your control anymore, so why spend more space explaining it?
Be prudent, if using stock spring rates or "fast road" setups. Subaru engineers felt the 19/18 and 19/20 combinations are the best and Prodrive agrees. If running road race suspension in the 400//300 range, big bars on the order of 21/22 will work, but your kidneys won't if you try to drive the setup on the street.
Last edited by superstring; 19 April 2005 at 05:29 PM.
18 April 2005, 07:56 AM
#57
The W/L exteem settings are a peach on the road (IMHO)
I have these on my car Chrome, and have done about 8K miles on the road now.
Tyres are perfect, and remember these are list 1B Kumho real motor racing tyres, soft almost as slicks.
Those Dunlops are very good (and expensive).
John may wince at the settings, but I have to say it all works for me.
What Airfield is that? I need a morning on some open space and pretend curves laid-out using Ajax to run at time and again faster and faster to build confidence.
Graham.
I have these on my car Chrome, and have done about 8K miles on the road now.
Tyres are perfect, and remember these are list 1B Kumho real motor racing tyres, soft almost as slicks.
Those Dunlops are very good (and expensive).
John may wince at the settings, but I have to say it all works for me.
What Airfield is that? I need a morning on some open space and pretend curves laid-out using Ajax to run at time and again faster and faster to build confidence.
Graham.
18 April 2005, 09:03 AM
#58
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 5,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a non adjustable 24mm rear ARB on at the mo..
OK Graham, wil get booked in for some adjustment before may 1st
The airfield day is at Elvington: http://www.javelin-motorsport.co.uk/...kdays.html#may
OK Graham, wil get booked in for some adjustment before may 1st
The airfield day is at Elvington: http://www.javelin-motorsport.co.uk/...kdays.html#may
19 April 2005, 09:12 AM
#59
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 5,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 911
I did weld the rear bar wriggly tin mounts with a steel web to stiffen it all, a mod offered by Whiteline/MRT but at a silly cost.
Interesting points from Swaussie.. logic would dictate 22 on front and 24 on rear to give the flatter cornering BUT less tendency to let understeer creep back..
thats why I havent gone for a front ARB already.. was advised that it would indeed bring the car back to it's understeering self if I put a 24mm bar on the front...
19 April 2005, 01:18 PM
#60
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Stafford
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by chrome
Graham, if you get a chance; could you take a pic or two of this.. I'm having a hard time visualising it
Looking at that magazine article on the Whiteline website (project Rex?) with 22mm front ARB (which I have temporarily removed from mine, but that's another story!
) you have to have the 22mm rear adjustable ARB set to maximum to counteract the added understeer from the front. It seemed logical therefore to get the 24mm version and either use it on the softest or middle setting to suit (and have a bit in reserve!)