TelBoy

Have you written your letter of complaint to JDW then, Jerome. I assume so, right?

the moose

A typically inaccurate Scoobynet cynic's assertion* - sadly for you, the *** machines are coming out too.







*Honestly, really, it's all the fault of immigrants. And Tony Blair. And lefty PC madness.

Nezz10

moose - sadly for me? I was unaware if they where removing them or not. As I said the ban doesnt really bother me if anything will help me stop smoking the small amount that I do, which is a good thing of course.

OllyK

Cars are important to YOU, how many people are there in the world, that are being effected by vehicular emissions that don't smoke? There are more of them so they must be more important, time to ban the car for the good of the masses!

Smoking achieves nothing positive as far as you are concerned. Plenty of smokers seem to get something from it. You could argue the same for drinking alchohol as well (with the possible exception of red wine), indeed a great number of things out there today serve little or no purpose, but they are still there.

TelBoy

There ya go then. And i'll bet good money there's a lot of people thinking along the same lines.

the moose

Sorry, was having a sideswipe at you, which was probably undeserved. SN is full of assertions, however, which inevitably see something negative and cynical in every action by every organisation.

OllyK

I see, I am defending the rights of a group of people, of which I am not one, to partake in legal activity, which you can avoid the effects of and you accuse me of tunnel vision??

You come over like the playground bully demanding to sit where somebody else already is, just because you think you are more important.

TelBoy

Olly, isn't it equally true that people who want to smoke in bars can still find bars in which to do so? Obviously JDW have made this decision on commercial (and possibly health conscious) grounds, and it's up to them at the end of the day.

OllyK

Bet PSL is pissing himself with all these people so much behind a new labour policy

Jerome

If I lived in the UK, I would.

the moose

I've been in a bar where the air-con was so powerful that smoke (and hair) rose vertically. Worked a treat - you could be sitting two feet away from a cigarette and not notice the smell. Must have cost a fortune to run, but that aside was a perfectly acceptable solution.

OllyK

For the next 2 years, yes.

Yes it is up to them of course, it would just be nice for some pubs to be non-smoking and others to allow it, either anywhere or in smoking rooms rather than a blanket ban. People then have the choice, the best of both, as it were, without the errosion of anybody's rights. As I said before, if non-smoking pubs are such a great idea, why has it taken government legislation for them to start to appear?

TelBoy

Because most pub owners think their profits will drop if they ban it unilaterally. It's really very simple. Sometimes it takes Government legislation to enforce something that will be to the public's advantage. I'm surprised this wasn't done some time ago to be honest.

Jerome

Just remembered there is another annoying side effect of a total ban in a pub, at least in the winter. The area near the door is a no go area because the door keeps being opened every 20 seconds by a smoker going out or coming in.

Daft Lad

Agreed, being a licencee and a non-smoker myself I think it would be hard for all pubs and bars to uphold the ban, it is a good idea in town/city centre bars that can be frequented by different groups of people on a nightly basis. But I think it would prove awkward and unpopular amongst pubs that can be classed more as 'locals' if it was enforced onto them, where they usually have a set clientele that use the pub on a regular basis.

OllyK

You see, you are willing to look at solutions that allow non-somkers who want to go to a pub but not be affected by smoke and yet still allow smokers to smoke. Sadly the majority want the blood of the minority and would rather trample them underfoot than consider their opinion and try to compromise, that of course requires effort and a modicum of thought.

Daft Lad

*TelBoy & Daft Lad in sensible posting shocker!*

OllyK

Sadly the "traditional" pub is few and far between, and many pubs in Ireland did close after the ban. I haven't looked at the figures in detail, but I would suspect it is the traditional pubs that lost out rather than the theme pubs/bars. The "local" where the old boy comes in every night with his whippet to have a quiet pint and a capstan ful strength to get away from the Misses is going to stop going and we are going to loose what remains of the traditional pubs. Personally I'll take a traditional pub with smoke over a crap theme pub any day.

OllyK

But the way people are griping on about how much they hate smokey pubs, I am surprised some entrepreneur didn't see a potential market out there and start up a line of non-smoking pubs - "The un-smoked kipper" perhaps

By the looks of things on here there are only a couple of us out of 25,000 users who would be in the traditional pub, and one of us is a non-smoker anyway

Brit_in_Japan

I've read that article you posted. What is the law in California? Does the smoking ban extend to FF (Fast Food) outlets? I wouldn't be surprised if it does which would then blow a big hole in that report.

There may well be other socio-economic factors which change the pattern of patronage at food/bar establishments so I think the author was being a little simplistic in his conclusions.

I tend to think that the boss of Wetherspoons has researched quite carefully the effect on his business and isn't going to do it unless it's in his shareholders best interests.

And as I also mentioned, there are bigger margins on soft drinks than on alcohol.

OllyK

I wasn't suggesting that report was "gospel", just that both sides of the fence are guilty of putting a "spin" on things to suit their own agenda. As is so often the case, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle!

unclebuck

That's the scarey thing. People seem to play readily into the hands of those who design this kind of bullying and intolerant legislation under the guise of 'correctness'.

Each and every law like this that gets passed erodes the rights and civil liberties of *everybody* - not just those it directly targets, and begs the question "who's going to be next in line for a kicking"?

ChavSaz

Well i personally dont care as JDW is a sh1te place any how!
Cheap microwave food for chavs.
No music.
Cant go in if you are wearing rigger boots or work clothes of that sort.
The beer is watered down and its only a quick meeting place then off to better places!!!!!
Plus no smokin just means they will have loads of tab ends outside the front door (ooh how classy!)

the moose

And clearly you have proof of this watering down? Guess what, yet another SN fabrication. Presumably you were told this by a bloke who works in the trade, and he's actually seen it done.

Riiiiight.

scoob_babe

Friend is manager in afore-mentioned chain. Not done in her pub!

TheBigMan

A total ban would be dictatorship - ban in public places IS the compromise.

Allows smokers to continue smoking however forces them to realise that not everybody wants to inhale it. smokers may continue, non-smokers do not have to suffer breathing in air that has circulated somebody elses gut.

Smokers that are not selfish and have a level of tolerance will not be wildly bothered by this.

It's only the minority that will kick up a stink - the very same sort of minority that think it's ok to drop litter.....do you see a pattern emerging.

milo

how's that?

you're saying that if the government totally bans something, we must be living in a dictatorship?

then we already are. LOTS of drugs are already banned.

TheBigMan

My statement is based on others' on here saying a ban in public places is a dictatorship. I was saying that it is not - a total ban would be more up that route. I don't care if people smoke - it's up to them entirely. However in a public place I feel that people should have the right to breathe in air - NOT nicotine and a the gunky black substance used to make roads.

popeye

No not much, ranting away at every single anti-smoking post on this thread.

par·a·noi·a ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-noi)


A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.



Conclusion - OllyK = paranoid loon.



Oooh, you've got me there. Ok, "most people.", particulary when they are trying to eat whilst in the immediate vicinity of some moron chugging away like a poison gas factory.



Smoking is an expensive, unneccessary habit that brings about the premature death of thousands of people every year. Every packet has a warning on the side which basically says, "smoke these and you will die an early death.".

Conclusion - smokers = cretins.


I care about things like this:

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/news...obacco/passive

...and bollocks to peoples "rights" being eroded. That old chestnut seems to be used by all and sundry these days to behave like an obnoxious ****. One day I might be able to go to the pub when I visit the UK and not have to chuck my clothes in the wash straight away when I get home as they stink like an ash try. I might be able to breathe normally at the pub as well. A good idea all round. Well done to Wetherspoons.

Freak

Havent been to cali, but as i mentioned a million pages ago, i have seen it in new york where i believe it is the same legislation.
There, smoking is banned in all public buildings.
You see it all through the city- people nip outside on their breaks for a cig and freeze their *** off.
Especially noticable at bars- always a couple of people standing outside.

But what i did notice was although these people smoke, and although they of course have the right to smoke outside, they didnt seem to nearly as much.

Think about it this way. You are a smoker in the uk, and while sitting in a pub you may light up several cigs and hour while talking and drinking with some friends.
Now if you had to disappear outside every time you wanted to light up, you would spend the vast majority of the time freezing cold outside- maybe people wouldnt bother as much. You would also seem like an antisocial ****- disappearing maybe a couple of times wouldnt be a problem, but constantly??? Would be pretty stupid

When out in bars in ny for an evening, i was with a largeish group of people. They didnt seem to go that often to be honest- maybe a couple of times over the course of the night. Total contrast to what people do over here, which is chain smoke from the moment their fat asses hit the seat until the moment they leave.
It was genuinely lovely to be able to come back to my hotel and not have my clothes and hair stinking the place out.
And the walls in the clubs/pubs that were light in colour were not stained yellow!!!!!!(having worked in clubs for some years and seen the walls in the daytime coated with what people breathe in its pretty scary)

on a personal note:
This house is non smoking- and the fact that my 3 gigging record boxes and headphones are over the other side of the room to me as i type this, yet i can smell the stale smoke on them from here ( In excess of 16hrs every week in very smoky clubs) is a simple indication of how horrid it really is.