_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

I'm forced to say: you what?? Are you suggesting immigrants will be opening concentration camps? Or that seeing immigrants will make the British want to open them? And if it does, why should this be a reason to stop immigration? It's like saying schools shouldn't allow so many fat kids with glasses in because it makes the other kids want to bully them.


M

Markus

Alas I doubt I'll see this documentary I've read a fair few things on the camps and such like and, harrowing is too small and insignificant a word to actually sum up what happened. How anyone can deny this ever happened still amazes me.

Could it happen again, well, you'd like to think we're a little more enlightened, however, look at Bosnia and Romania (I think) and Rawanda to see that mass genocide can, and still does happen.

As for whether it could/would happen in the UK today, well, one would like to think it might not, but then again, put the wrong person in power and who knows what could happen.
Maybe I am somewhat naieve here, but I think it'd be somewhat arrogant of us to simply say "it'd never happen in the UK".

moses

i watched the one a few days back

so sad, im sorry to the holocaust survivors and sufferers,i know of the pain they suffered and coz of my bitterness of the israeli zionists i buried the holocaust in the back of my mind when i see israelis doing the same to palestinians.

i want to say, thats nothing to do with the holocaust suffererers, they werent their, i apologise, i couldnt bare watching it all , the lil kids and ***** playing music while leading jews, mentally ill and gypsies etc to the gas chambers and laughing.

the lil ones and elderly, so sickening, i always hated hitler so much, but my hurt and bitterness with the israelies made me adore hitler for a while, coz of what the hands of the zionists done.



majority of the other reason i adored hitler was he saved the bosnians from extinction from the serbs , himmler created the islamic waffen ss 13th division.

in a way coz he saved them i had those feelings for him.

he was truly a sick and an evil man

holocaust is not just what happened in auschwitz but the rest of the world, from rwanda, palestine, darfur, and alll other countries.

should be a holocaust universal day

i felt so bad and guilty when i watched the lil ones being led to aushwitz and elderly and innocents, i said sorry to God, i shouldnt have let my bitterness get in the way of the memories of the innocents long time before israel

Walwal

Didn't the British not do this sort of thing in the Boer War at the turn of the century?? I may be wrong, but I'm sure they had concentration camps.

Andy.

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

Yes Britain invented concentration camps, and used them again in Malaya. But while there was a heavy death toll in the Transvaal camps, there is a serious moral difference between concentration camps and death camps.


M

Leslie

My mother is Austrian, and you should hear her opinion of Hitler and his cronies!

Les

unclebuck

Or watch The Sound Of Music. This film has deeply serious undertones.

Geezer

Here's an interesting view on world leaders from an Auschwitz site.....


It is time to elect a world leader, and your vote counts.
Here are the facts about the three leading candidates:


Candidate A
Associates with crooked politicians, and consults
astrologists. He’s had two mistresses. He also chain
smokes and drinks 8 to 10 martinis a day.
Candidate B
He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon,
used opium in college and drinks a quart of whiskey
every evening.
Candidate C
He is a decorated war hero. He’s a vegetarian,
doesn’t smoke, drinks an occasional beer and hasn’t
had any extramarital affairs.

Which of these candidates would be your choice?





























Candidate A is Franklin D. Roosevelt

Candidate B is Winston Churchill

Candidate C is Adolph Hitler



Kind of makes you think !!


Geezer

Iain Young

...and is based on a true story. The majority of Austrians had no choice about the occupation, and it was simply a case of either accept it or die.

Mind you, they aren't too enthusiastic about the russians who came in to liberate them from the germans either....

CrisPDuk

You could say the same about the Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgarians, etc, etc Turning a blind eye to Stalin's purges wasn't our government's finest hour

paulr

edited ....

CrisPDuk

I've seen this before somewhere, but I would instinctively have gone for C as being Hitler, otherwise the question would have been pointless.
I personally would never trust a man with no vices, you need to have an outlet somewhere.


PS I don't think he had time to have an extra-marital affair, he was dead within an hour of the wedding ceremony!

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

The Austrians will tell you this over and over. But I remember hearing a story told by a German tank commander who was on the drive from Berlin to Vienna on Anschluss with Austria. It was supposed to take four days, but took eight because the tanks had trouble getting through the huge crowds greeting them, the women throwing flowers etc. No, actually the Austrians were keen on the idea at the time, but their memory changed after they lost the war. It's a bit like all the Germans who suddenly liked to say how they were against Hitler - after he lost.


M

Iain Young

That's the complete opposite from what I've heard from both the Germans and Austrians that I know (who were there or at least their parent were). I guess it's one of those things that some people went with it, and some really didn't like it. I do know the opposition / bad feeling against the Anscluss was far greater in rural Austria than in the cities...

Leslie

Yes that is quite true Iain Young. My mother was sent over to this country by her family just before the Anshluss in order to escape the **** takeover. A large number of young Austrian girls were sent over like that to work as housemaids etc.

I have met her relatives and they certainly were not happy about having their country taken over. They all knew the score with the ***** and had no option but to appear to go along with it to save their lives.

My mother's feelings about it all are quite entertaining.

Les

hedgehog

I saw some of the ceremony yesterday and thought it very moving, though was working at the time and so didn't catch it all.

However, I've never seen anything similar for the 26 million Stalin dealt with in a similar way in Ukarine. I've no idea why we never hear about those people, maybe because Stalin was on our side at the end of the war or just because the Jews have been better at making their situation known?

We also rarely see anyone mention the very many Scots killed in the Highland Clearances. Sure some people were "moved" but a number, and we might never know how many, were just killed where they stood so sheep could use their land. Imagine ethnic cleansing so the people can be replaced by sheep? Well it was organised or happened within a few miles of where many of us are sitting right now and was going on up until about 1850.

Over the last week we have seen the current administration push legislation for ID cards through Parliment. The following is just one area of concern in this legislation:

Section 15 allows the Home Secretary to issue orders allowing those providing public services to require checking of the ID card before allowing access to those services.

When you consider the range of other control measures that are also being put in place I can't help but be concerned that we are heading in the direction of a state similar to that run by Hitler or Stalin. The initial control measures might be more subtle, but they are there and they are being introduced by the country which invented the concentration camp and which cleared the Highlands of Scotland to replace people with sheep.

DarkStar66

I was born in Germany and came to England when I was 6. Before I came to England I'd never heard of Hitler but then you wouldn't expect to at 6. I soon learnt all about Hitler and the ***** after a few years in England! It seems to be the standard method of putting any German down, like saying the French burn sheep and stink of garlic. Saying that, I do agree that all German childern should be told about the Holocaust, but within the context of that whole period.

I know plenty of Germans, I was one, and they have all been pretty nice and very peace loving. I have two German uncles that fought in the war, one spent most of the time in a POW camp near Basildon and the other one got shot in the knee on the Russian front and was very lucky to survive.

The way I see it, Hitler got into power because Germany was in a desparate state after WWI. They were made to pay huge reparations that plunged the country into poverty. So the average German who had just been serving their country wasn't too well disposed to foreigners. This was fertile ground for someone like Hitler who promised (and sometimes delivered) huge improvements and was prepared to stand up to the 'Allies'. He then slowly started propaganda against Jews, saying they were taking all the best jobs and were hording loads of money. This propaganda got worse and worse until people took it as the truth because most didn't any other sources of information. Of course that doesn't excuse what happened in the concerntration camps but it made them easier to accept as long as you didn't know of all the atrocities going on inside. It's impossible for us to understand how a normal soldier could throw a child on a fire. All I can imagine is that the SS running the camps were terrible racists and ordered the normal soldiers to do this. From the soldiers point of view they could see what the SS were willing to do to innocent people so were very scared of what would happen to them if they disobeyed. The choice was probably to do what you were told or die in a very painful way.

In conclusion, I think a less extreme version of the Holocaust could happen and already has several times since. But it takes a special set of circumstances to make it as bad as during the **** era. I don't think it is genetically unique to the German race but the human race.

Brendan Hughes

...<cough>...

hedgehog

I agree totally Brendan.

We need only look at the massive resources the administration threw at convicting a woman of eating an apple in her car. That wasn't about fighting crime, it was about establishing control and being seen to have control over the population.

We have ID cards, satellite tracking and control of our cars and police helicopters to detect dangerous apples. All it takes is a recession, a bit of hardship and we will have Hitler in power in this country with all the control mechanisms at his finger tips to instigate another final solution.

Leslie

Glad this is beginning to dawn on a few others. All this terrorism is a great excuse for awarding themselves powers they should not have. The powers being put in place bit by bit do not bode well for our future.

Les

unclebuck

All what terrorism? How many terror attacks have been visited on this country by the evil islamic terror cells?

Diesel

Ohh lighten up will you! It's all so long ago - just get your little tash on, slap on a swastika and head to the fancy dress party full of your wit and fun and joie de vivre - schnell schnell!!!

Actually its nice to see people appreciating the enduring horror, rather than just brushing it all under the carpet and moving on somewhat blindly, as I was perceiving in an earlier thread...

D

Leslie

UB,

You took it out of context, the terrorism is rampant enough in Iraq and in other countries of course, I did not say those horrors are happening here, but the threat of that is being used for the purposes I mentioned.

Try reading my post again.

I hope that is clear to you now.

Les

DarkStar66

I'm not to sure that New Labour have some evil plan to turn the UK into a dictatorship, that's what someone who's anti-Labour would like us to think. But the 'bit by bit' point is relevant to what happened in Germany during the 30's and 40's. Hitler would never have got in power if he'd revealed the full horror of his 'final solution' from the begining. It was small steps here and there over ten years. Remember, Saddam Hussian came to power through free elections originally. Mad (and clever) dictators are hard to spot until it's too late. So, on the other hand Les, you might be right!

hedgehog

The other thing I wonder is did Hitler know about his "final solution" when he started out or did the ideas evolve with time and as he gained more power so the ideas became more extreme? My guess is that he didn't have a clear plan at the outset, though have may have held views and opinions which later evolved into direct action.

I think the bit by bit thing is very important just because we are seeing it in so many areas of our lives today. In motoring we are going to have GPS tracking and control on our cars with masts on hills monitoring our movements. In other areas of life similar systems are being put in place and, for example, there are phone lines being set up which encourage you to phone up and grass someone up for a crime.

The effect of a single one of these ideas is fairly trivial on a UK wide basis but the impact of the whole system of ideas is to give someone control over our lives. The problem is that it is hard to define who this "someone" is as I don't believe that the PM currently has a mad plan for total control. Many of these initatives come from the "administration" and from unelected bodies in Europe for example. However, when the systems are in place and the PM of the day is offered "total control" does anyone think he will reject it? I suspect that to reject the "control culture" at that stage would make a political party unelectable and so we will be in a catch 22 situation where parties crave more and more control until there is only one party left.

This is why I believe it is important to fight the control culture now and why I don't believe it is a party political thing, the Tories would do the same thing just because it is being driven by an under current from unelected bodies and pressure groups who would like a Stalinist type system of control. Here in the UK we may be only 5 - 10 years away from that control, motorists and especially those with performance cars are already seeing it or are about to have it thrust upon them.

Do you ever wonder why the thousands of people in a concentration camp, who knew they were going to die, didn't fight back? Why did they just sit there and watch a few guards control them and lead them into the gas chambers when an attack on the guards would have been bloody but successful due to sheer weight of numbers? Why did the people on the flights that hit the Twin Towers sit and let a few people with a Swiss Army knife control them to their deaths when an early fight back would almost certainly have saved the majority on the planes? I think it is worth considering these situations as the population of the UK are in a similar position right now, we can fight back and win or we can surrender until total control is achieved and we are all defeated.