Mad Gypsy

Calm down a little son, take deep breaths, it's just a car forum.

Originally I wasn't comparing, my point was that the ITR is sh1te and over rated. Then some joker said he could keep up with my 996 in an ITR. (read all the posts) I was simply replying to his post.

Like you, I find it laughable.

alwong

But the flipside to it is some people come on here and say how there 15K car is alot faster than others 35k cars???

Smokedog

I bet he could if his ITR was supercharged.

But I rather have a quick 996 than a super fast ITR.

markGT

I think you have missed the point of the type R brand. The ITR is not supposed to be comfortable! It's also hailed as one of the greatest FWD cars ever built, but maybe everybody else is wrong and you are right or maybe it was just too raw for you! As for the CTR and ITR you can't go faster for the money and comparing it to a Porcshe GT3 is a bit unfair considering it cost about four times the amount.

What do I drive? A classic scoob, yes its quicker and handles better than the CTR (I can comment because I used to own a CTR), but it's a different machine and comparing a them is unfair. I'd have another CTR anyday of the week! Could Porsche or BMW build a 16K performance icon; err no! By the way this is not a go at porsche, I love those also.

wakeboardar

i tried one when i bought the sti thought it was crap to be honest

EvoBarry

I like my DC2 'teg, I couldn't care less what beats it on the road/track. For an 1800 coupe it goes just fine thanks.

CTR bored me when I drove one, too thrashy, sounded flat and didn't "feel" fast, altho it clearly was quite rapid.

A friends just bought a DC5 so I'll reserve judgment on that till after she lets me have a go

sh4un

I own a CTR and i think its great, for the money i dont think you can realy fault it, had mine for 18 months and still enjoying it, and i dont understand how you can say its boring sounds flat is thrashy and feels slow, maybe if you drove a 500 BHP Skyline it would, but your driving an old DC2 :P

EvoBarry

lol shaun, it might be old but it sounds a hell of a lot better than the K20 motor does as standard, have you actually heard one inside?! My problem with the CTR is that there is no noticeable power step as the vtec switches, and as such it just feels like you're revving the engine forever and it just builds power, I prefer more of a step in power like the "old" vtecs have. It feels slow, I didn't say it was slow, it feels slow cos of this lack of power step, and the lack of noise etc

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the CTR is a fine car, its just not for me thanks, I'll stick to my old DC2

03-CTR

Give peeps a VTEC engine and they'll slate it for it's lack of torque below VTEC but praise the punch on changeover.

Give peeps an i-VTEC engine and they'll slate it for it's lack of punch on changeover but praise the ultra flat torque curve (that's still lacking ).

Never driven a VTEC myself so I wouldn't know but the whole speed perception thing is such an illusion. Compared to a stock 200SX the 0-60 times are identical as are the power outputs but the SX feels so much faster due to the shove from the turbo. The CTR by comparison feels a lot slower but in reality is just as quick (0-60 that is).

Personally I loved my CTR but it was fundamentally flawed as the steering feel was naff, the brakes could've been much better, the springs were under damped and the car tended to understeer a little too much. Appart from that though it was a great car.

Mad Gypsy

Why does extreme uncomfort qualify as raw?
Raw is good when coupled with performance i.e GT3, M400, M3 CSL etc etc. But when it's in a car that really isn't that fast, then what's the point? It's simply too uncomfortable (sorry, raw) for not enough reward (performance).

The ITR is simply not a performance icon in the eyes of anyone who has owned, driven or experienced true performance. For the performance given, I'd say 16K is all it's worth. As you said, it's designed as a perormnce only machine, (which you don't get a lot of) you get **** all else!

I guess it also comes down to what you have driven or experienced. If you have come from a chaved up Nova, then I'm sure the ITR would seem awesome.
Having driven or owned a STi Type R, M3, 996 C2, GT3 CS, 996TT, 360 Spyder, I can't say the ITR did anything for me.

alwong

Speed is all relative to what your used to!

EvoBarry

The Recaro seats in the DC2 teg are without doubt the most comfortable seats I've had the pleasure of using, the driving position is fine, and its an easy car to drive sensibly if the mood takes you, agreed the suspension is stiff but its not harsh unless you are tanking across very rough surfaces, in short its not what I'd call uncomfortable at all, and I've had some pretty soft cars in the past to compare it too.

Performance wise, in its class it performs superbly, comparing it to ultimate performance machines is frankly pathetic, I could spout faster machines than those you quote and slate the M3 CSL for not being any quicker than its "normal" brother for instance?! Get real man, its an 1800 coupe that gets compared to M3s - nuff said in my book!

And lets not forget, it is only a front wheel drive hatch/coupe at the end of the day, its not meant to be a 911 GT3. Performance has to be taken in context at the end of the day, its an fwd 1800cc normally aspirated road car - that puts several limitations on it from the outset.

I'm not pretending its ever going to scare a Porsche but give it credit where its due, every journalist thats driven one seemed to think it quite impressive at the time.

The_Titanium_Knob_Man

"I guess it also comes down to what you have driven or experienced. If you have come from a chaved up Nova, then I'm sure the ITR would seem awesome.
Having driven or owned a STi Type R, M3, 996 C2, GT3 CS, 996TT, 360 Spyder, I can't say the ITR did anything for me."


That comment just about sums up what kind of a man you really are.

Perhaps you have worked hard or have been lucky enough to acquire the kind of wealth that allows you to enjoy those kind of cars. To then say that the only reason people could like the ITR is becos they come from a chavved up Nove is one of the most stupid comments I've read on the forum period. Evo rated the ITR as a 5 star car and yet their journos are comparing everything to a maxxed up Nova ?

To be perfectly honest I really don't quite understand why you are still banging on about this, the only thing you're actually achieving is to make yourself out to be a class one anu$. Perhaps, you should read the account on Pistonheads of the guy who owned the Mcclaren F1.

You might learn something from him.

Mad Gypsy

Some of you ******* have to make it personal don't you!? Calm down it's just a car forum!
I have in the past driven a whole manner of crap; escort van, couple of mkII astra's, cavalier...the list of crap is endless. I am, as my user name suggests a gypsy (yes a real pikey!) and so I wasn't born with a silver spoon wedged up my ****, I have worked for what I have. (As a profesional Taekwon-Do instructor and former boxer).

So what kind of man am I? If you feel so strongly (as your post suggests) about the type of person I am, feel free to come and tell me to my face.

It takes a brave man to hurl personal insults to someone whilst sat at a PC.

Diablo

Thats good for you then mate.

Given your background, it makes the attitude prevelant in your post even harder to understand.

I've seen, first hand, in person, Standard ITR's lap Knockhill quicker than standard 996 porsches.

Maybe it was the cars, maybe it was the drivers. But I've seen it.

I've also wasted a 996 turbo at that same track in a 1000cc sports racing car. All things are relative.

Of course your porsches and M3s are quicker than a 190ps Honda in a straight line..LOL.....significantly quicker. No one is suggesting otherwise.

zero to 60 in six and a bit and 60 to 100 in 9 and a bit isn't particularly quick by any standards. Being able to carry that speed through the corners is what matters

You quote "having better brakes" when discussing entry speed. That's only really an issue if you are having to brake hard because you're not carrying that speed through the corners.

You quote no power, no torque and front wheel drive when exiting the corners..LOL...again, right gear, right exit speed and the torque and power deficit becomes less important.

Your 99g probably has more of both that a current generation touring car. Lets see you match exit speed with one of them

Not the best example I know because chassis and tyre technology is in a different league, but it serves to demonstrate the difference between power and chassis ability.

No, my ITR wasn't the fastest car by a long way in a straight line. Nor was it the fastest cornering car out there, by a long way. But it would more than hold its own against cars costing 4 times as much.

And I could seek much amusement from the fact that I had paid 40 grand less than the poor sod who was looking to compensate for the fact he had other insecurities .

For the the record, just so you know, I've driven and had experience of a wide variety of "performance" cars including a lotus carlton, 993 Carerra's (2 and 4 wheel drive) various Subarus, a Lotus Elise, a very quick westfield and the aforementioned sports racing car, not to mention various sprint/racing/hillclimb cars. I've also had the extreme good fortune of having passengered in a nice variety of machinery.

The ITR is right up with the best of them as an overall package. For the money (even new) it was an absolute bargain.

If you want "comfort" as a priority as opposed to "focus", that is your perogative. But don't come on here with a ridiculous comparison in terms of straight line pace and price. If you don't "get" what the ITR is all about, then you have no place commenting on it, particularly on a performance car based BBS.

Laugh if you want, that is also your perogative

Veracocha

So you are a professionally disciplined fighter and you start getting all matcho like a typical idiot. A very unusual attitude for someone of your calibre I must say!

In regards to the post, the ITR is a great car as already said. It will certainly corner up there with much more expensive cars.

Mad Gypsy

I was in no way getting "matcho" as you suggest. I take it by this you mean I was inferring that me and another poster engage in fisticuffs!?

You apear to be another brave man, who, whilst reading a post, misinterprets it and comes up with a factual statment that I am a "typical idiot".

Suggesting violence via a car forum would be as pathetic as some of you who choose to personally attack other board users because of differing opinions to their own.

My one and only point is this; if you have such an issue with someone over such a trivial matter on a car forum that you would see fit to personally attack them (as you have done to me) then you should be just as happy to say this to thier face as you would type it here on SN. But as we both know, this simply wouldn't be the case (regardless of my occupation)

I have simply offered an opinion to which I am entitled, for this I have been attacked. And yet it is ME who is in the wrong!?!? Go figure!

It is my opinion that nothing said on this thread as called for either name calling or the threat of violence, I have indulged in niether.

Mad Gypsy

P.S. I still think the ITR is crap.

crush her

Can my mate Wayne Alexander say it to your face?

Mad Gypsy

No probs, he's always been a bit chinny the boy can bang though i.e Takaloo, that had to hurt!

The_Titanium_Knob_Man

Your reply puzzles me......explain to me which sentence in my post is hurling a personal insult at you ? I stated that the comments made make you sound like a class one anu$, I did not state you were one. Your subsequent comments to many of the other users of this board suggest that you are perhaps lacking a certain ability to understand the concept of a 'reasoned argument'.

Your nonsense about saying things to your face is plainly ridiculous, why would I want to waste my time doing such a thing ? Its clear you are convinced your opinion is the right one despite a multitude of very valid points showing how weak your initial argument is and not from one but many different posters here who I am sure know a thing or two about cars.

You can get many good books from the library about Netiquette in forums, I am sure you would get more out of your 'forum' experience if you read those. Alternatively, I am sure there are speaking books as (CD's/cassettes), if that medium appeals more that can cover the same subject.

Veracocha

I havent got time write out such a long answer - but you suggesting coming and saying it to your face is a bit on the silly side If someone takes a pop at you, rise above it and post objectively. I was a little wound up by your comment and shouldnt have replied with anything other than the post subject in mind - just don't take things so personally. Being a martial arts expert should mean you have the discipline to let peoples comments go like water off a ducks back.

alwong

Moderator can we close the thread! It's obviously gone off topic!! Fights and personal attacks is not what the post is about!!

markGT

Now forgive me for making assumptions, it's just the way you come across, but it seems you are a bit of a snob! You seem to rate cars by what badge it has on it and how much it costs rather than how it drives. Your chaved up Nova quote confirms it. Now I have never owned a Nova chaved up or other wise, but I have owned some and have driven some very good and great performance cars like you, including an M3, a 911 turbo, GT3, Tusan S and P1. However I judge a car by the smiles it gives me not how much it costs. Did I get more smiles out of the M3, Porsche and TVR than the CTR? No! However I did out of the P1, but that’s another story! Now of course the 911 is a better car, but it didn't make me smile any more than the Honda; Fact!



Just because a car isn’t over priced doesn’t mean it isn’t great.

The_Titanium_Knob_Man

Verococha,

Was your reply to MadGypsy ? as you've got my reply to him as if you're replying to me ? My post was replying to him if you see what I mean ? Or is that just even more confusing

Pauleds2

Christ theres some cobblers talked on here.
It's like a 2 stroke motorbike, have to rev the knackers off it to get anything like decent performance.

davedipster

That's why I sold mine, all rev and little go.
With a couple of passengers in the CTR it was embarrassingly slow

Dipster

The_Titanium_Knob_Man

Same old story, same old replies...........

The_Titanium_Knob_Man

dipster, your definition of slow is based on what ?


The trouble with people here is they are comparing a fast hot hatch to previous drives like Scooby Tyre-R's and M3's.

In its class the Honda CTR is not slow, look at the stats........its as fast as or faster than a Clio 172, Mini Cooper-S, Focus RS, R32 and Seat Cupra-R all of which are in the same category although a few of those were dearer to purchase.

Your slow comparison is like me saying an Evo 6 GSR is slow because I'm used to driving a Zonda or a Mercedes CLK-GTR.

Diablo

Which is the whole point of the vtec engines and the type R philosophy.

Like I said before, you either get it or you don't.

Yup, CTR's are slow. Like UK WRX imprezas are slow.

Must be a right laugh when flat out in a new WRX and a CTR flashes you to get out of the way

Its also very telling of a drivers ability when straight line speed is all that matters, however

D