Dracoro

I'm still waiting for BOB'5 to show Geek Boy why the 60-100 figures don't work. I suspect he doesn't know himself as he still hasn't explained yet but I'll wait 'till he posts how the figures don't work before I cast judgement.

0-100-0 < 20 secs. I rather less than 15 secs for a car to be 'fast' Hell, like many scooby owners here, I'll use whatever figures favour my car the most.

bluepolarbear

See my first pt about metrics

Clearly you can have any figure you want. Why not 10 or 5 for that matter. Why 20? because it works 15s is unachievable for nearly any road car. as it implies a 0 to 100 of around 11 secs. Most people would describe V6 vectras mondeo etc as quick but not fast - they fall into the 20 to 25 bracket. So 20 works in real life.

Ajax

Dracoro: Well said, I can’t see why BOB’5 won’t explain this.

Perhaps if it was done as a Comic strip it would help and be easyer for us all to understand, sort of like a story board just like in the films just like 2 Fast and Furious 2.

first rate move, sadly no wrx’s feature

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0322259/photogallery-ss-0

Ajax

Dracoro

I agree, it was more the point of how selective some are about stats. I chose 15 secs as my road car could probably achieve it. People will choose a stat that shows off their car the most.

Regardless, I would say, yes you do need to draw the line somewhere as you've illustrated to give people a rough indication of performance. And braking is part of performance before anyone harks up. No good getting up to a ton quickly if it takes an age to slow down again for the next bend and so on.

<15 - Very fast
<20 - fast
<25 - pretty nifty
<30 - quickish
>30 - most 'normal'/average cars.

bluepolarbear

tasty - what you drive?

Dracoro

Westfield SEiW set-up for the road. 190 horses and not much weight (until I get in of course ) Not sure exactly on the 0-100-0 but the 0-100 will come up in 10 secs or so giving 4/5 secs to brake, plenty of time

Vipa

Where does that place the WRX, haven't got a clue what the figures are?

Paul

Dracoro

Probably a little over 20 secs is my guess. STi about 16/17 maybe. Think a couple of the car mags do this test on some cars but not sure if they did the scoob. Caterham evo 500 did it a little over ten seconds.

Ajax

<15 - Very fast
<20 - fast
<25 - pretty nifty
<30 - quickish
>30 - most 'normal'/average cars.

I have puzzled over what these figures really mean; now I see.


The number represents MPG and it all now follows through.

Yes my WRX is fast according to the chart it does 20

Simple isn’t it when you know how to read the figures properly.

Ajax

bluepolarbear

Tasty - reckon should just nip under 15 - damn quick car

bluepolarbear

Classic turbos are around 19 secs, STI's around 18 secs. New age bugeye WRX around 22 secs and blobeye around 20secs

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Geek (and your followers): If somebody asked you to go the quickest from 60-100mph it would be done differently (poss in different gear depending on your ratios) than you would if you were going from 0-100mph. I doubt very much you would use the same revs/gear as if you were on a 0-100mph run.

I really didnt think I would have to spell it out as its a simple concept to anyone that drives.

If you really want to try and compensate for bad FWD/RWD launches you should use proven test figures such as 30-70mph.

Ajax

BOB’5: Please don’t include me in this group Geek (and your followers):
As I don’t understand the concept followers, as I am always in front.

Please can you draw me a picture, still can’t grasp this concept of 0-100.

Feel free to colour it in for more detail, use plenty of neon and flame details

Ajax

Geek Boy

I am not sure you would be in a different gear at all.

Surely you would use the gear that propelled you the quickest - and I have little doubt this would be the same gear you would be using to hit 60 in the first place.

Lets try and keep this freindly - why would you be using a different gear?

Geek Boy

What gear would you be in to hit 60? 3rd?

So you would not use 2nd or 4th to accelerate to 100 would you?

If you hit 60 in 3rd - you would accelerate from 60-100 in 3rd and then put it in 4th......no?

Dracoro

BOB'5, I understand that you wouldn't test/get the figures by simply subtracting the times, but that depends on whether you are testing driving THROUGH 60 to 100 or just driving at 60 then planting it. However, the figures aren't gonna be that different anyway AND the same 'rule' applies to all cars so it's reasonable to say that the wrx and the civic/clio etc have similar performance despite the 0-60 figures. Further tests would have to be done or the 30-70 which I favour and I wish the mags/media would use these figures more.

How about power to weight ratios, here are some examples.
all are bhp per tonne.

Civic Type R - 166
Clio Cup - 171
Subaru WRX - 161
Subaru WRX STi - 207
Honda S2000 - 191
Porsche Boxster S - 200
My westie - well over 300
Caterham R500 - err, 500
Porsche 911 turbo - 290

Obviously other factors such as gearing, aerodynamics, tyres/grip etc affect things but it gives a good indication of comparitive performance.

GrollySTI

In my STI I would be in 3rd and 4th for 60-100mph - which is exactly where I'd be for that speed if I was doing a 0-100 run

Sorry don't get your point

Geek Boy

so please BOB, spell out your simple concept.....to us thickos

Ajax

GrollySTI: I see that’s what makes the sti faster because its got 6 gears that you only use 5th and 6th over 100mph

So on the road you might have selected to lower gear for economy and get caught out doing an unnecessary gear change when doing a sprint from say 50 to 100.

Ajax

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Geek: Maybe some figures will help:

(John Banks) "my tuned classic with only bolt on mods and standard internals did c.400 BHP and 60-100 comfortably in the 4s (datalogs not speedo) if you started below 60mph in third gear and changed to 4th part way through, it was high 4s if you measured it (0-100)-(0-60) because you cross 60 at the top of second gear and change very soon afterwards wasting time.

A lot of people think 0-60 is irrelevant, but on the other hand it does give you an idea of real world acceleration/traction at legal speeds. FWD with acceleration figures as posted will be an unsatisfying tyre shredder?"

You simply cannot 'calculate' 60-100mph as different cars would use different gears to achieve the best results.

Please tell me you get it now.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Why not use real figures that together give you a good indication of a cars performance:

0-60mph
30-70mph
0-100mph
1/4 mile


I noticed you didnt reply to the girlfriend comments

Jiggerypokery

The top speeds for the WRX are:
1st: 38MPH
2nd:67
3rd:97
4th:136
5th:140

If I was doing a 0-60 run, I would use all of second gear for the best time. If I was doing the best 60-100 time, I would start at 50 and use 3rd and 4th.

Geek Boy

I have never used this as gospel - I used it as a guide and even with John reasoning, it is still not a million miles away - in fact a gear change at most.

Even with my technique one thing is for certain - a clio accelerates from 60-100 faster than a WRX...........and it would do at 30-70 faster too.

What comments have I missed and I will respond.

ru'

Seems a real-world trial is needed - shame no-one's got a clio, lol...


(private roads of course, officer)

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

May I suggest you use real figures as a guide as fractions of a second make a big difference.

There is no need to make up 60-100mph figures when 0-60mph/0-100mph/30-70mph/ etc figures are available.

What clio are you banging on about?

Bob

Ajax

BOB'5

BOB’5, so what are we saying it’s the gear ratios set up that makes the difference or the gear change that may or may not be necessary depending on the road speed at the beginning of the sprint.

There must be so many points the human factor will lash any of these figures up, even F1 drivers aren’t given the chance to manually clutch change or even launch.

Ajax

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Autocar Jan 2002:

Subaru Impreza (classic): 0-60mph = 5.3secs *** 0-100mph = 14.9secs
Subaru Impreza (bug eye WRX): 0-60mph = 5.7secs *** 0-100mph = 16.9secs
Renault Clio Sport V6: 0-60mph = 0-60mph = 6.6secs *** 0-100mph = 17.1secs

So Geek which has the fastest and slowest 30-70mph times?

ru'

I'm really bored at work, so one final question...

Given the choice (and assuming the Clio does 60 - 100 faster than the WRX, yawn), which would you rather have; Clio or WRX?

"Nicol !"

"Papa !"

"Nicol !"

"Papa !"

Er, no thanks...

Va-va-voom my ar*e...

Dracoro

The same can be argued for your 0-60 test (or 0-100, or any other test for that matter) so not sure what your point is. This is highlighted on the other thread (106 GTi & Saxo VTS) which are almost the same car, same engine etc. but have different 0-60 times due to different gear ratios. Just looking at the 'figures' would indicate that the VTS is quicker but this isn't the case, they are pretty much identical.

As I said well before, you need to grab as many stats as possible to gather the whole picture (0-60, 0-100, 30-70, 1/4mile, power to weight, 0-100-0 etc.) about how 'fast' a car is. From looking at all the stats, there's not much between a WRX and the faster hot hatches (clio cup, CTR etc.) on paper.

An example of 'other factors' that are never discussed and never appear in the performace stats is the gearbox. Some cars don't like to change quickly and you never would abuse the car to get the 'stats' (bit like not dumping the clutch to get good 0-60 figures, some cars respond better, some break if you do etc.). A car with a good fast box (e.g. the hondas) may well be quicker in the 'real' world but some cars you 'can' change quickly but you rarely would due to the stresses involved. All depends on the car really.

Jiggerypokery

Using Geek Boy's logis/arithmetic, we could take 0-60, 60-80 and 80-100 times and add them together to get the 0-100 time. I would use first and second for 0-60, 3rd for 60-80, and 4th for 80-100. Add them together and what do we have? A 0-100 run with only one gear change!