john banks

13.5 vs 8.1 for 100-200 km/h. It hits at least 7500 RPM in top gear which is c.24 mph/1000 RPM. Perhaps after 150 mph the M5 might reclaim its massive lost ground? I wouldn't bank on it with larger frontal area and less power (despite lower Cd).

Andy M3

Have a look at this.

it is a vid of a 540i auto (4.4) accelerating from 80mph to the limiter @ 155. this is legal is it was on a german autobahn: http://www.ideaphile.com/photography/germany/

And BTW - my Volvo can happily stay with a 996 carrera from 50-150 as well as a E36 M3 BMW. I have never had the pleasure of taking on a M5, but a 911 turbo. They are quite the different league. really breathtaking in acceleration.

brybusa

I saw the picture of "Pamela" and freaked out...Is the vid good?

Andy M3

lol - yeah the vid is good, it quite clearly shows the speedo popping round to the higher figures although the last 5 mph took quite some time

M5_POWER

John we need a long motorway, i can say one thing the M5 is amazingly quick from 100++

Also do you think you will be able to control your subaru at 100+?? i know one thing with my M3 at 150 it was scary very light and you never feel in control.

The M5 just sits down an does its business, feels more like 90 in a normal car.
Its perfect for the drive to Le Mans this yr.

StevieG

Interesting thread so far, after owning 2 scoobies for 4 1/2 years and most recently a Cupra R for 2 years (all bought new), I took the plunge & bought a MY2000 E39 M5. I can honestly say its the best car I have ever owned. I can't comment if it will beat every scooby ever built (does that really matter ?), but its plenty fast enough for most; but its the blend of abilities that makes it such a desirable car (pace, luxury, build quality, refinement, comfort). I would agree though that you need the BMW extended warranty; my car has & a new water pump was installed 2 months ago at no cost to myself. The only comments I have had about the car have all been positive, it doesn't seem to have the negative image that seems to blight the M3 (and is much rarer anyway. Make sure you get one with the Comms pack & Tv/Sat Nav, greatly helps resale. I paid £20K last November, not bad for a car that cost £62K (with options).
Get one, you won't be sorry........

Steve

LG John

I've been in John car and its very much a power WITH control vehicle and not just a crank the boost up job. Its ruthlessly fast and would have no problem leaving an M5 even after 100mph. It will also out-brake and out-grip an M5. But it is JUST a subaru, it IS modified and John knows all this and is under no illusions. I've been very aware of John's ideas (often talked about on SN) of toying with getting 911's/M5's so this isn't someone that cranked up a scooby to go M5 baiting! This is someone that choses to stick with the subaru. Its a lovely car and very much top few % of scoobys in the UK. Its not an M5 and its not an attempt to be one - its just a subaru and it just happens to be faster.

Between John's car and a M5 I'd take the M5 everytime - the extra acceleration is nice but not a priority. I heard an M5 chirp into life as its owner started it the other day outside a shop - near creamed in my pants

john banks

I think M5s are ace cars.

M5Power, it feels fine at 150+mph, but the suspension has been fettled. I wouldn't like to shoot for 200 mph in a Subaru, but then I wouldn't on any car that wasn't designed from the factory or properly tested at very high speed, and which was sold without a limiter. My tyres may say "extra load" on them, but I think even that is stretching it a bit plus it would probably blow up. I would far rather be in the M5 as a cruiser, at any speed, but there is simply no contest on acceleration, but you would expect that of a standard car that has few engine modification options, those that are are expensive, and if you get it wrong, engines cost a fortune.

I wouldn't compare the two, but for the fact they were erroneously compared earlier in the thread, contradicting good data I have that demonstrates otherwise

Paul_M

I recently bought a 540i to use as my daily car, as I previously was using a 2.0 8v Audi and boy was it slow (and incredibly noisy on the M-way, nearly 4000 RPM at 80!).

First impressions were - it's nowhere near as quick as the Subaru, and off the line I'd still say it's slower. However the performance is very deceptive - gearing is quite high, the car is almost silent except for a deep muted induction note under load, and of course it's very linear with no sudden turbo rush. Buckets of torque from 1000-6000 RPM, it's the only car I've driven that can pull in 5th gear at 800 RPM .

I think at 70+ the performance of the 540i will be similar to standard Subarus, and probably quicker higher up. Again it doesn't feel that fast probably due to lack of noise but a quick look at the rate of the speedo incrementing changes that impression. It's electronically limited to 155 MPH, and apparently derestricted they will do 165-170 MPH depending on who you listen to. I have no intention of trying though as I value my licence too much .

One other thing I like is the brakes, not so much the actual brake setup which is adequate but not amazing with 304mm vented discs front and 300mm vented rear, but the car just feels so stable under hard braking. I don't know if it's the better balance of weight, or the fact that the rear brakes are more powerful that those on the Subaru, but it does feel more controlled even if the Subaru could almost certainly stop quicker (mine had standard Subaru 4-pots).

Of course mine is a 6-speed manual gearbox, a rare option on the 540i and it took me a while to find a good one. I wouldn't touch a sludgebox as being 25 I'm only half was to qualifying for one, I passed up several 540s which were otherwise good apart from the sludge . The 6-speed gearbox is nice, throw is a bit long compared to the short-shifting Subaru but other than that it's fine and smooth. 6th equates to about 2100RPM at 70! You can get nearly 30 MPG on a cruise if you're careful but in reality it's likely to be nearer 22-24 with normal driving. A heavy right foot or lots of town driving will see it drop under 20.

All-in a nice car which is a totally different kettle of fish to the Scooby. Much nicer for motorway cruising and general everyday use, but it's not as much fun or attention grabbing (which can sometimes be a good thing!).

I do quite fancy an M5 in a few years once I'm bored of this as I'm currently quite enjoying this wolf in sheep's clothing thing, but who knows what will take my fancy by then?

Tiggs

The auto box on a 540 is superb. 90% of the time everyone would benifit from an auto...its only the odd 10% where you want "control" and the fact that the BMW has a great override sytem anyway means the reason there are so few manuals is because no one wanted them new.

Paul_M

Only because most buyers aren't particularly interested in driving dynamics in this sector, and baulk at the thought of having to use more than one leg while driving. The M5 on the other hand wasn't available with the sludgebox, because buyers of those tend to enjoy driving and are quite happy to put that massive amount of extra effort in to do so So I guess many driving enthusiasts may have went that little extra and got the M5.

I've driven a BMW with the "steptronic", admittedly it was a 325i rather than a 5-series but I doubt there's a massive difference. Hated it, big deal buttons on the steering wheel but the delay between pressing the button and it changing, plus the whole slushbox feel when driving just isn't for me. Maybe when I get to 50 and my legs are tiring a little.... nah make it 60

If it were possible to have a car with a proper manual box and a traditional sludgebox at the same time (which obviously isn't realistic, although things like DSG and SMG kinda offer something along these lines) the only time I'd choose sludgemode would be crawling in traffic, you know the stop-start stuff where you seldom go over 5 mph. You're seldom out of first gear so it's just a lot of clutch work. But that probably makes up 5% of my driving, and the other 95% I'm more than happy to give my left limbs a little work to do. Horses for courses, but for me I've never driven a sludgebox car that's left me satisfied with the driving experience and don't expect to any time soon.

Paul.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

why do people compare modded scoobs to STANDARD beamers?

Spend as much money on modding a M5 as John did with his scoob and we can make a direct comparison

Or better still, take two stock UK spec cars and compare them

Sith

My thoughts exactly.

LG John

In response to the last two posts I'll quote my own words from post 37:

Nuff said.

M5_POWER

Two different types of cars and two different types of owners.

One cost 70 grand one is 20 grand.

Two different markets.

Rare would it be that someone heavily modify an M5.

Jat

si325i

http://www.fastsaloons.com/carindex.php?carorder=0

john banks

However, I wouldn't use an M5 as a modification base as it would never get the power down.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Buy an X5 then

Tiggs

Theres a large difference!

The 540 has ample poswer to feel quick with the auto. Half of it is in your head....how many gear changes do you make in a trip? now how many of those do you need to be faster?

for most people its 98% are fine as they are.

i cant see that i'd ever had a manual again any more than i would have manual windows (unless it was a sports car....and BMW dont make a sports car)

Paul_M

I'm not talking about power. Yes the 325 slushy felt slow, but I never mentioned that. The point I was making is that it didn't feel like I was really driving the car, very disconnected feeling even with the buttons on the steering wheel. You could throw the V10 from the new M5 in there and it would still feel crap to drive IMO.

I can't say I'll ever buy a car with a slushbox unless I take a job as a taxi driver and do all my driving in busy city centres. Or lose my left leg.

PS 96.32% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Paul_M

Or just fill the M5's boot with slabs and drive like a complete ****

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

A neat little "trick" with the current 325 autos is not to bother using the steptronic/manual gizmos

Stick it in sport mode....when you want to drop a cog (eg just before an overtake) briefly floor it and hit the kickdown switch, then back off to the previous position. Presto the gearbox downshifts ready for your next move.

Now here's the even better one, when you want to go down a few gears, say when braking for a bend or a island...left foot brake, back off brakes slightly...full throttle blip again and down a gear it goes...need to drop another gear? wait for the revs to drop a bit more, and do the same again then it's ready for you to plant the throttle on the exit.

Very amusing trick if you get the chance to try it and get it right

It doesn't make the car any quicker...but its alot more fun when you chuck it about

Mad Gypsy

Or you could just buy a manual

Tiggs

with the snall the engines you are poss right...not much need to race around the box on the 4.4 though, the odd down change to overtake....flick to manual mode down one gear......the time saved by doing that manualy with a clutch must be minimal.

T

Sith

If I had a 4.4 I would have the Auto. Always slated auto drivers in the past. Been driving my fathers veccy 2.5 Auto. Must say I do enjoy the auto. slow down for the lights, wait and foot down of you go. No p!ssing around with biteing points. It's still got gears on the auto so can be used if need be. But generally leave it in D and off you go.

If I get rid of the Scoob I will get an Auto.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Not my car

Do you really think I would drive like a loon in my own car?