OllyK

If ISA's become a reality I see 2 options;
1) register my car in another country and carry on as normal
2) Buy an old army 4 tonner and drive everywhere with my foot flat to the floor, mount pavements, crash in to other cars and just have one heck of a fun dogem session, personally knackering up the road accident statistics for the next 5 years

Jerome

IIRC, people are most likely to have an accident near their homes (especially on a homebound journey) because they relax as they get close to home because they know the roads. Also, as they feel they know the roads, they take extra risks that they wouldn't do on unfamiliar roads. I would guess (as mentioned before), that ISA will increase accidents because - regardless of the slow speeds - people will concentrate less.

Although worth try, Top Gear has a limited audience. Normally the kind of people who will be motoring enthusiasts already and possibly more likely to know about ISA. Far better to get the attention of newspapers that form the opinions of most of the country (unfortunately) such as The Sun and The Daily Mail.

Tiggs

3) I'll eat my hat!

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

With respect, surely it's better to get the interest of those who are more likely to have a pro-motoring, anti-ISA stance like the TG audience?

Get an article in the wrong paper and it'll be 'Finally, a way to stop all those nasty speeding motorists that are causing all the world's problems' - ie. massively counter-productive.

Vipa

Problem is.... as I was shocked to find out the other evening.... the majority of motorists, even those who would consider themselves enthusiasts, have never heard of ISA.

At least a program like Top Gear would get the message out to the TG audience who would then talk to work collegues who would then talk to friends... etc... etc.... a cascade effect...

At this point in time very few people know of the existence of external vehicle speed control!!!

Paul

OllyK

Would you like it with ketchup or just plain burberry?

dr_ming

Or course, in the utopia(!) that DSRC is supposed to give us (i.e. networking between the road infrastructure and vehicles, and ad-hoc vehicle-to-vehicle networking): when you drive up the slip road, the network will make a gap in the traffic for you, control your speed so that you slot into it, and then engage your car's autonomous cruise control until your exit slip approaches.

Fortunately, I don't think there are any plans to connect ISA to the brakes, just the engine management system.

Tiggs

lol....i dont think we'll get that far. This thread is like an Oliver Stone wet dream

TheGuildfordBeardedLady

The trolls have arrived. It was only a matter of time.

Jerome

When I mentioned the Daily Mail/Sun, obviously it would require the relevant reporter to be convinced of ISA being a bad thing before publishing.

As I said, TG is worth a try, and most definitely a good start.

GC8

I forgot to mention that its likely that this same aparatus will be used to charge us to drive on our own roads; these arent new privately funded and built toll roads either. Theyre the roads that we already own and have the right to travel freely on.

B*stards!

Citizen Simon

unclebuck

Doesn't amaze me. History is full of examples. A majority of people in this country can't tell their **** from their elbow. It'll be a push over for the government unless they are stopped.

speedking

Or someone mistakenly types 0mph into a database for a particular section of road If you live on that road you ain't going anywhere . Couldn't happen don't you believe it.

sillysi

IIRC Top Gear drove an ISA fitted Skoda back in the days when Tiff and Quentin were with the program.

Tiggs

LISTEN TO YOURSELVES!!!!!!


what if someone mistakenly sends a plane into London bridge.....quick ban Air Traffic control.

the belife that the Goverment are idiots is foolish one.....they may have different ideas to you but they are all adults and have an idea of what works and what doesnt.......if ISA isnt going to work for all the reasons mentioned it wont happen........give an example of where something similar has been forced on the population?????????

OllyK

Poll Tax - good idea in principal, screwed up in the implementation.

ISA is a good idea, if it is voluntary, i.e. you have a dedicated lane on the motorway, you switch the ISA on, and you sit in that lane doing 140mph 6" from the car in front and everything is controlled by computer - it becomes a "car train", then great, but there is too much potential for this to be abused, better to consider it now and ensure it doesn't happen, than sit there and say it won't happen until it's too late to make yourself heard.

Tiggs

and wheres poll tax now?

i am not anti or pro ISA....but some of the reasons here as to why it wont work are not going to help any sensible debate on it.


"and you sit in that lane doing 140mph 6" from the car in front and everything is controlled by computer " why 140????? this is why the whole ISA thing exists..if people drove at 80mph on the motorway no one would get tickets and no "market" would exist to limit peoples speed.

T

unclebuck

War on Iraq?

Control Orders?

OllyK

The "140" was an arbitary figure, the scenario I describes was basically what was outlined on Tomorrows World 20 years or so ago, the idea of vehicles travelling at high speed inches from each other on the motorway, controlled by computer until their exit, at which time they would be taken to the slip road and control would be returned to the driver for the "local" part of the journey

unclebuck

Don't forget the ban on hunting with dogs....

Jerome

Licensing Hours (during WWI)

Dangerous Dogs act

Banning of all firearms

Banning of certain blank firing pistols

Banning of Fox Hunting

TV Licensing

speedking

Tiggs, air traffic controllers do not remote control the planes. The pilot can override the system at any time. Many small planes travel outside the direct control of ATC. ATC cannot force a plane to land in an inappropriate place, or cut power to the engines by mistake.

Did you see the guy on telly the other night who kept getting demands from the congestion charge enforcers demanding payment on a vehicle that he had never owned or knew anything about? Despite a letter from the DVLA confirming that, they kept pursuing him. Now, because he didn't submit his evidence in time the bailiffs will be sent in Guilty until proven innocent. (Usual disclaimers about press sensationalism apply.)

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Tiggs, unfortunately the problem is as much the direction of thinking, as the exact ideas being put forward right now. ISA is based on debatable principles:

- that it's OK, in principle, to take external control of someone's private vehicle, even if it's against the owner's wishes;
- that enforcing speed limits in this way is the best way to improve safety, or implement whatever other agenda might be in place.

What I find so frustrating is that ISA is not merely objectionable in itself, but that the foundations on which it is built are so shaky.

Where, for example, is the evidence that otherwise sober and competent drivers cause many accidents because they are exceeding the speed limit? The only complete, published report on the subject - TRL323 - shows just 7.3% of accidents were caused by excess speed, and doesn't break those down into above vs below the posted limit. Other than TRL323, we only get soundbites from the camera partnerships whose integrity in such matters is far from inscrutible. If the raw data backs up the need for all the effort in technology and enforcement, why isn't it plastered all over the place?

Where also, is the justification that the best way to spend £2.5 billion (= £100 x approx. number of cars registered with DVLA) on saving lives, is to spend it on transport at all? Give me that £2.5 billion and I'll spend it on healthcare - and I bet I save more lives than ISA ever would. I certainly wouldn't kill half as many as will undoubtedly meet a sticky end in an ISA-induced 70mph motorway pile-up.

What's needed is a step back - PROVE to me that 'speed kills' and I'll back off, but you'll have to demonstrate that money, research and enforcement action wouldn't be better spend tacking the poor observation and judgment that TRL323 shows actually do cause accidents. The IAM quotes the root cause of 90% of accidents as being 'human error' - so improve training (and where necessary, testing) standards. Treating poor driving ability with ISA is like treating appendicitis with painkillers - you might cure some symptoms, but you won't do anything to fix the underlying condition. In fact you'll make it worse.

Vipa

WOW.......

Impressed with the entire argument there...

Paul

Vegescoob

ISA, ID cards and who knows what next, the fact is that modern digital technology is opening up a Pandora's box of delights for the State (irrespective of party) to ensure compliance from the population.
I could go on at length but I will not.

Clarebabes

Quick! Ban humans, they obviously don't work like they should, kill people and keep making mistakes!

DaveD

iTrader: (2)

ISA does pose a few problems...

You can't use outside control to alter the speed of bikes (slowing a bike in mid-corner will see virtually all bikes heading into the trees within a week). With that being the case, do the government ban bikes, or only allow 30mph mopeds?

Motorways will probably see an increase in accidents. I feel quite vulnerable when travelling through roadworks which have active cameras and there are 3 lanes of traffic doing 50mph. It is difficult in this situation to maintain a 'safety box' around the car to allow you to make any sudden avoiding action, and also to avoid hiding in other car's blind spots. I can only imagine this being worse with 3 lanes all doing 70mph.

A large proportion of accidents on A roads involve 2 or 3 cars. Are these mainly head-on / overtaking accidents? If so, then these are probably due to poor reading of the road/lack of awareness of the safe distance required to complete the manouvre. Overtaking a car doing 40mph, you want more speed not less. What happens when you hit the wall at 60mph??

Finally, I know I drive less well, and with less awareness in resricted areas. I currently have a daily drive through some motorway roadworks with a 50mph restriction. Sat in the nearside lane at 50mph, other cars still driving past at 80 , I do sometimes realise that I'm hardly paying any attention to what is going on around me - I'm basically in cruise control. I can only imagine a majority of the population just driving with their foot planted on the gas pedal allowing the box to adjust their speed......in which case, all they need to do is point the wheel to stay on the black stuff.....do they need to do any more???

unclebuck

I think this problem would never arise as the bike will be slowed well before the corner and will only be permitted to enter the bend at the perscribed speed.

The government would dearly love to ban all bikes from the road. However for now the industry is too powerful for them to take on.

Vegescoob

They'd dearly like to ban cars for most of us and have us on the "volksautobus".

Vipa

I'm a biker in 'remission' and remember chatting to fellow bikers a few years ago about ISA when it reared it's ugly head!!!!!

As the report says.... ISA is not prctical on a bike....... but I do vaguely remember a sequence of events and publicity that strongly suggested that the government would like to ban bikes at some point.

Paul