Tiggs

just imagine all these posters with their kids...."stop fighting or i'll smack you"

mr & mrs carlos uk300

i believe in an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth.

GrollySTI

Does that mean we have to rape the rapists?

Bagsy not me

Brendan Hughes

By your inference the state says imprisonment is right, so we can all imprison people? No. I thought the classic definition was that the state has the exclusive right of force.

Fully agree with your rape comment though - and with many other crimes, too.

ajm

Nothing wrong with that. Spare the rod....

paulr

Agreed,it doesnt really deter people and while i'm no friend to murderers ,the whole hullabaloo surrounding the execution that you get in the US,well to me, it brings out the worst in people.

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

Are you suggesting the criminal justice system should be guided by cost? I really hope not.


M

mynickers

I would normally say no, still do, like someone said, doesn’t bring out the best in the folks over the pond. You’d hope we were less barbaric than public flogging. But on the other hand, in a secular culture, it's pretty clear that there is a general lack of morals, i.e. the only thing that stops people doing things is getting caught or punished. If a few years of bird doesn't put off people from murder and rape, then maybe an electric chair will..

I think there is a difference between criminals that attack and kill each other, and paedophiles and serial killers etc, I think these people are ill / sick, and I personally doubt that they would be deterred, you’d have to be totally screwed in the head to even want to do those things,

And I think fox hunters should chase tabloid journalists instead of fox's??

Tiggs

as opposed to when??

cave men?

Vikings?

Romans?

Victorian London and Jack the Ripper?

Brit_in_Japan

Reasons against the death penalty include:-

1. It will create "martyrs" of terrorists and help those fanatics to perpetuate and spread their cause.
2. It will make criminals more desperate to escape when they think they will face the death penalty. One often cited example in which people think the death penalty is justified is where a policeman has been killed. If the police killer thinks he will get the death penalty if caught, what has he to lose by fighting his way out of trouble? You can only be executed once, whether for killing one or several people.
3. The justice system does get it wrong. Just look at the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six, not to mention many other cases from the past where people were executed even though the convictions were far from safe. If there was another terrorist attrocity in the country (God forbid) then the pressure to bring someone to justice might just lead to a miscarriage of justice. At least if they are imprisoned rather than executed then there is a chance that the miscarriage can be put right.
4. Juries will be less likely to convict if they think that someone may get the death penalty as a result.
5. As someone pointed out earlier, the death penalty is no deterrent. The US executes more people than any other first world country and it's not exactly helped there has it?
6. Last but not least there is the argument that it is fundamentally immoral for the state to take away human life, irrespective of what the crime was.

Death penalty? No thank you.

lightning101

I likethe headline "Lotto Rapist Loses *****" and the machine was "Guinevere"

GCollier

Capital punishment often seems like an appealing and popular option at first as a knee-jerk reaction to events. There are plenty of things I see on the news and my first thoughts are something like shoot the fvcker and send his family the bill for the bullet...but on balance the negatives of capital punishment (which have already been pointed out) far outweight the positives.

So I would be very surprised if it would gain popular support in the country as a whole in a referendum where everyone was free to reflect and vote in a non-emotional manner.

Gary.

lightning101

Another worrying trend is the length of time a sentence for serious crime can be reduced to although the reasons are obvious i.e. the average cost for community rehabilitation order (formerly known as a probation order) is £1,710 and for a community punishment order (formerly known as a community service order) £1,500. Compared with prison this is very cheap - it costs around £22,000 to keep someone in prison for a year.

Brendan Hughes

And with our lovely media, that's not the UK you're talking about.

hades

I like to think in simplistic/pragmatic terms. Therefore, I'd say the death penalty for murderes is worth it IF it saves more innocents than it kills - i.e. if you can know that the threat of the death penalty will cut murders by 5 every year, it's actually worth the risk of one wrong conviction every year. This may sounds a callous viewpoint, and I know that if I was the one wrong conviction or related to the wrong person, it would be a terrible personal tradgedy. However, this is no more the case than it would have been had I been one of the 5 innocent victims of a murderer. To my mind 1 tradgedy is better than 5 (although 0 is clearly preferable)

Only trouble is, it's very difficult to prove that death sentence does prevent murderers. In some cases, if they know they're dead if they get caught, they have nothing to lose, so might as well kill again.

Therefore, if someone can prove that the death penalty actually works as a deterent, I'll support it.

GCollier

True, and I did wonder as I wrote that what might happen if some nation-shocking murder/torture case happened at the same time as a referendum and was picked up on by the media.

But that aside, I think in general the issue is one where most people would vote against if allowed to reflect on the for and against points for a few minutes.

Gary.

mynickers

As opposed to when it was less of a secular culture, at least a set of religoius morals meant people had a higher reason not to do things other than, whether they'll get caught, and if they do how long they'll be out with good behaviour.

There has been a definate and well recorded break down of community, both from a religious, and family point of view. So there is less guidence, and less moral framework for people growing up than there has been over the past 20 or 30 years IMO. In terms of right and wrong, deterants.

There was a time, when an elder could put kids on the street right, do that now and risk getting stabbed!

lubo

Back to basics I say...theres too much debating and thinking...kids and the elderly were never picked upon as much as they are now. Nature gets rid of its runts why shouldnt we. People who want to eat, rape, violate etc members of society are never going to change/reform so get rid.

Buckrogers

Bring it back if the evidence is beyond doubt and the death penalty fits the crime.

Unfortunatley, NO goverment will ever bring it back IMHO.

jasey

If you want to deter ALL criminality then you would be better starting off with having Prisons that are more like prisons than Hotels.

I would re-introduce slopping out as a matter of course.

Anyone caught with drugs (In Prison) would be kept in Solitary confinement for a year - with no outside visits for the duration of their sentence.

Pool tables, computers, TVs etc would be taken away from all prisons.

Let's make prison somewhere you don't get three square meals, newpapers delivered to your door and as much drugs as you want !

If that still doesn't deter the determined criminals then we can look at the death penalty !

Leslie

And they should bring back the birch as well!

Les

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Totally agree.

Ted Maul

yes, but only if the criminal wishes it,. Let them choose life imprisonment or death

Mr Sympathy

Fantastic idea..as long as they can shoot them at the end?

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

I take it that you found your stay in prison really comfortable? You are talking from experience right, not just parroting what you read in Mein Kampf, sorry, the Daily Mail?


M

jasey

No I'm talking about the BBC showing prison officers delivering papers to the guests in Kilmarnock Prison (no doubt as the youngster they were supposed to be protecting was hanging himself) and the Scottish Executive setting aside £10 Million to pay to the poor old souls having to slop out in PHD Jail !

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

So, as I said, your only experience of prison is what you gathered from the media? I'll concede it wasn't from the Daily Fascist though. You think that life in prison is luxury because they have papers and a TV? I bet I could make your life hell no matter what luxuries you had, and the same is true of prison. If prison is so nice, why are crims so desperate to avoid it? They tell their lawyers that any punishment is fine, as long as it's not prison.


M