View Poll Results: Do you agree with the death penalty
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll
Time for the death penalty - referendum time?
#34
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Originally Posted by _Meridian_
And just to put it in a nutshell: the state says killing is wrong, and to prove it, it's going to kill you. Notice any logical problem there?
Fully agree with your rape comment though - and with many other crimes, too.
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Originally Posted by Tiggs
just imagine all these posters with their kids...."stop fighting or i'll smack you"
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Originally Posted by johnfelstead
it doesnt work as a deterant, people are wrongly found guilty, so no thanks.
#37
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I can understand the point of the criminal killing to help get away from the death penalty, but in cases such as Mira Hindley for example, do you not think she and her accomplice deserved to hang for what they did to young children? There is no doubt that she did what she did so where is the chance of a wrong doing? You are simply removing her from society, instead of spending large amounts of money imprisoning her for the rest of her life.
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Put it like this, why spend all that money keeping a child murderer alive when that money could be spent on a new machine for a hospital that may save several babies/childrens/peoples lives. I know what i'd rather have tax payers money spent on. Keeping child murderers alive at great expense is wrong. Hang them and remove them from existence.
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I would normally say no, still do, like someone said, doesn’t bring out the best in the folks over the pond. You’d hope we were less barbaric than public flogging. But on the other hand, in a secular culture, it's pretty clear that there is a general lack of morals, i.e. the only thing that stops people doing things is getting caught or punished. If a few years of bird doesn't put off people from murder and rape, then maybe an electric chair will..
I think there is a difference between criminals that attack and kill each other, and paedophiles and serial killers etc, I think these people are ill / sick, and I personally doubt that they would be deterred, you’d have to be totally screwed in the head to even want to do those things,
And I think fox hunters should chase tabloid journalists instead of fox's??
I think there is a difference between criminals that attack and kill each other, and paedophiles and serial killers etc, I think these people are ill / sick, and I personally doubt that they would be deterred, you’d have to be totally screwed in the head to even want to do those things,
And I think fox hunters should chase tabloid journalists instead of fox's??
Last edited by mynickers; 21 March 2005 at 06:05 PM.
#41
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Originally Posted by mynickers
I would normally say no, but it's pretty clear that in this day and age, there is a general lack of morals,??
as opposed to when??
cave men?
Vikings?
Romans?
Victorian London and Jack the Ripper?
#42
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Reasons against the death penalty include:-
1. It will create "martyrs" of terrorists and help those fanatics to perpetuate and spread their cause.
2. It will make criminals more desperate to escape when they think they will face the death penalty. One often cited example in which people think the death penalty is justified is where a policeman has been killed. If the police killer thinks he will get the death penalty if caught, what has he to lose by fighting his way out of trouble? You can only be executed once, whether for killing one or several people.
3. The justice system does get it wrong. Just look at the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six, not to mention many other cases from the past where people were executed even though the convictions were far from safe. If there was another terrorist attrocity in the country (God forbid) then the pressure to bring someone to justice might just lead to a miscarriage of justice. At least if they are imprisoned rather than executed then there is a chance that the miscarriage can be put right.
4. Juries will be less likely to convict if they think that someone may get the death penalty as a result.
5. As someone pointed out earlier, the death penalty is no deterrent. The US executes more people than any other first world country and it's not exactly helped there has it?
6. Last but not least there is the argument that it is fundamentally immoral for the state to take away human life, irrespective of what the crime was.
Death penalty? No thank you.
1. It will create "martyrs" of terrorists and help those fanatics to perpetuate and spread their cause.
2. It will make criminals more desperate to escape when they think they will face the death penalty. One often cited example in which people think the death penalty is justified is where a policeman has been killed. If the police killer thinks he will get the death penalty if caught, what has he to lose by fighting his way out of trouble? You can only be executed once, whether for killing one or several people.
3. The justice system does get it wrong. Just look at the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six, not to mention many other cases from the past where people were executed even though the convictions were far from safe. If there was another terrorist attrocity in the country (God forbid) then the pressure to bring someone to justice might just lead to a miscarriage of justice. At least if they are imprisoned rather than executed then there is a chance that the miscarriage can be put right.
4. Juries will be less likely to convict if they think that someone may get the death penalty as a result.
5. As someone pointed out earlier, the death penalty is no deterrent. The US executes more people than any other first world country and it's not exactly helped there has it?
6. Last but not least there is the argument that it is fundamentally immoral for the state to take away human life, irrespective of what the crime was.
Death penalty? No thank you.
#43
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Originally Posted by Brit_in_Japan
Reasons against the death penalty include:-
1. It will create "martyrs" of terrorists and help those fanatics to perpetuate and spread their cause.
2. It will make criminals more desperate to escape when they think they will face the death penalty. One often cited example in which people think the death penalty is justified is where a policeman has been killed. If the police killer thinks he will get the death penalty if caught, what has he to lose by fighting his way out of trouble? You can only be executed once, whether for killing one or several people.
3. The justice system does get it wrong. Just look at the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six, not to mention many other cases from the past where people were executed even though the convictions were far from safe. If there was another terrorist attrocity in the country (God forbid) then the pressure to bring someone to justice might just lead to a miscarriage of justice. At least if they are imprisoned rather than executed then there is a chance that the miscarriage can be put right.
4. Juries will be less likely to convict if they think that someone may get the death penalty as a result.
5. As someone pointed out earlier, the death penalty is no deterrent. The US executes more people than any other first world country and it's not exactly helped there has it?
6. Last but not least there is the argument that it is fundamentally immoral for the state to take away human life, irrespective of what the crime was.
Death penalty? No thank you.
1. It will create "martyrs" of terrorists and help those fanatics to perpetuate and spread their cause.
2. It will make criminals more desperate to escape when they think they will face the death penalty. One often cited example in which people think the death penalty is justified is where a policeman has been killed. If the police killer thinks he will get the death penalty if caught, what has he to lose by fighting his way out of trouble? You can only be executed once, whether for killing one or several people.
3. The justice system does get it wrong. Just look at the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six, not to mention many other cases from the past where people were executed even though the convictions were far from safe. If there was another terrorist attrocity in the country (God forbid) then the pressure to bring someone to justice might just lead to a miscarriage of justice. At least if they are imprisoned rather than executed then there is a chance that the miscarriage can be put right.
4. Juries will be less likely to convict if they think that someone may get the death penalty as a result.
5. As someone pointed out earlier, the death penalty is no deterrent. The US executes more people than any other first world country and it's not exactly helped there has it?
6. Last but not least there is the argument that it is fundamentally immoral for the state to take away human life, irrespective of what the crime was.
Death penalty? No thank you.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and thats why I would be generally interested in a referendum to see how the country would vote but I seriously believe there would be more for the reinstatement of capital punishment than against it.
#45
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Originally Posted by **************
I seriously believe there would be more for the reinstatement of capital punishment than against it.
So I would be very surprised if it would gain popular support in the country as a whole in a referendum where everyone was free to reflect and vote in a non-emotional manner.
Gary.
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Another worrying trend is the length of time a sentence for serious crime can be reduced to although the reasons are obvious i.e. the average cost for community rehabilitation order (formerly known as a probation order) is £1,710 and for a community punishment order (formerly known as a community service order) £1,500. Compared with prison this is very cheap - it costs around £22,000 to keep someone in prison for a year.
#47
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Originally Posted by GCollier
So I would be very surprised if it would gain popular support in the country as a whole in a referendum where everyone was free to reflect and vote in a non-emotional manner.
#48
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I like to think in simplistic/pragmatic terms. Therefore, I'd say the death penalty for murderes is worth it IF it saves more innocents than it kills - i.e. if you can know that the threat of the death penalty will cut murders by 5 every year, it's actually worth the risk of one wrong conviction every year. This may sounds a callous viewpoint, and I know that if I was the one wrong conviction or related to the wrong person, it would be a terrible personal tradgedy. However, this is no more the case than it would have been had I been one of the 5 innocent victims of a murderer. To my mind 1 tradgedy is better than 5 (although 0 is clearly preferable)
Only trouble is, it's very difficult to prove that death sentence does prevent murderers. In some cases, if they know they're dead if they get caught, they have nothing to lose, so might as well kill again.
Therefore, if someone can prove that the death penalty actually works as a deterent, I'll support it.
Only trouble is, it's very difficult to prove that death sentence does prevent murderers. In some cases, if they know they're dead if they get caught, they have nothing to lose, so might as well kill again.
Therefore, if someone can prove that the death penalty actually works as a deterent, I'll support it.
#49
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Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
And with our lovely media, that's not the UK you're talking about.
But that aside, I think in general the issue is one where most people would vote against if allowed to reflect on the for and against points for a few minutes.
Gary.
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Originally Posted by Tiggs
as opposed to when??
cave men?
Vikings?
Romans?
Victorian London and Jack the Ripper?
cave men?
Vikings?
Romans?
Victorian London and Jack the Ripper?
There has been a definate and well recorded break down of community, both from a religious, and family point of view. So there is less guidence, and less moral framework for people growing up than there has been over the past 20 or 30 years IMO. In terms of right and wrong, deterants.
There was a time, when an elder could put kids on the street right, do that now and risk getting stabbed!
#51
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Back to basics I say...theres too much debating and thinking...kids and the elderly were never picked upon as much as they are now. Nature gets rid of its runts why shouldnt we. People who want to eat, rape, violate etc members of society are never going to change/reform so get rid.
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If you want to deter ALL criminality then you would be better starting off with having Prisons that are more like prisons than Hotels.
I would re-introduce slopping out as a matter of course.
Anyone caught with drugs (In Prison) would be kept in Solitary confinement for a year - with no outside visits for the duration of their sentence.
Pool tables, computers, TVs etc would be taken away from all prisons.
Let's make prison somewhere you don't get three square meals, newpapers delivered to your door and as much drugs as you want !
If that still doesn't deter the determined criminals then we can look at the death penalty !
I would re-introduce slopping out as a matter of course.
Anyone caught with drugs (In Prison) would be kept in Solitary confinement for a year - with no outside visits for the duration of their sentence.
Pool tables, computers, TVs etc would be taken away from all prisons.
Let's make prison somewhere you don't get three square meals, newpapers delivered to your door and as much drugs as you want !
If that still doesn't deter the determined criminals then we can look at the death penalty !
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Originally Posted by rik-1
looking at recent English history will show many cases of mistakes made.
An innocent persons life is worth more than all the criminals you would have killed, put together.
An innocent persons life is worth more than all the criminals you would have killed, put together.
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Originally Posted by mynickers
And I think fox hunters should chase tabloid journalists instead of fox's??
#58
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Originally Posted by jasey
If you want to deter ALL criminality then you would be better starting off with having Prisons that are more like prisons than Hotels.
I would re-introduce slopping out as a matter of course.
Anyone caught with drugs (In Prison) would be kept in Solitary confinement for a year - with no outside visits for the duration of their sentence.
Pool tables, computers, TVs etc would be taken away from all prisons.
Let's make prison somewhere you don't get three square meals, newpapers delivered to your door and as much drugs as you want !
If that still doesn't deter the determined criminals then we can look at the death penalty !
I would re-introduce slopping out as a matter of course.
Anyone caught with drugs (In Prison) would be kept in Solitary confinement for a year - with no outside visits for the duration of their sentence.
Pool tables, computers, TVs etc would be taken away from all prisons.
Let's make prison somewhere you don't get three square meals, newpapers delivered to your door and as much drugs as you want !
If that still doesn't deter the determined criminals then we can look at the death penalty !
I take it that you found your stay in prison really comfortable? You are talking from experience right, not just parroting what you read in Mein Kampf, sorry, the Daily Mail?
M
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Originally Posted by _Meridian_
I take it that you found your stay in prison really comfortable? You are talking from experience right, not just parroting what you read in Mein Kampf, sorry, the Daily Mail?
M
M
Last edited by jasey; 22 March 2005 at 07:39 PM.
#60
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So, as I said, your only experience of prison is what you gathered from the media? I'll concede it wasn't from the Daily Fascist though. You think that life in prison is luxury because they have papers and a TV? I bet I could make your life hell no matter what luxuries you had, and the same is true of prison. If prison is so nice, why are crims so desperate to avoid it? They tell their lawyers that any punishment is fine, as long as it's not prison.
M
M