Leslie

When the IMF starts calling in the money that NL have borrowed to make the economy look good, and when they are forced to raise interest rates so that everyone who has been borrowing cash as well suddenly find they can't service their debts and their house values go into negative equity, and when VAT and Nat Ins goes up, then you may reconsider your remark about the "rape of the economy" MJW.

Les

blueone

I voted as an 'other'
I am fed up voting for any of the Party politicians as guess what...









...the Government always wins when doing this.

So, if there is an independant standing in my area and I like what i hear from them, they shall get my vote. if not then it will be a spoiled ballot with
none of the above
written on it.

MJW

Not at all Les, the remark stands as I was referring to the past, not the future.

mynickers

So it's official, SN are TORY BOYS!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/3...yboy150bbc.jpg

Lum

Agreed, but can you please redefine Scotland to include any of the current England located north of Crewe.

Fuzz

So lets get this straight.
Cons are going to "rape" the economy
Labour have crap foreign policies..


So why have only 5 other people voted for Lib dems.
What are they going to do to make it any worse than it is??
Surely it's time for a "real change"
I'm voting for them, as I always have done so far..


Andy

Lum

Lib Dems are even more anti-car than Labour, so I doubt they'll see much love here. They also fail to realise that we're not going to cut down our fossil fuel usage without nuclear power, seeming to think that wind farms and **** will be sufficient, a view that is only shared by lentil eating students.
If it wern't for these two issues, I'd be voting lib dem.

Petem95

But we need "realistic" change - the Lib Dems have no chance of winning the election, only Conservative stand a chance of kicking out Tony and his partners in crime.

So do the decent thing mate and vote Tory, you can always vote LD in future when theyre the opposition

Fuzz

So by leaning towards environmentalism.... no one will vote for them??

Wind farms are clean, cheap and safe...

Which would you rather have outside your back door?
A nuclear plant or a wind farm.
Wind farm wins for me.
Easier to build wind farms out to sea so as not to "spoil the landscape" aswell. IMO

If we don't start to become anti car and explore ways to move around and engineer/design different modes of transport at a gentle pace, it will be one big fall for EVERYONE when fossil fuels do run out...

I'm as mad on my own car and it's lack of enviromentalism as most of us on here bbut think that is only because there is no real, useful alternative..

Perhaps voting somone else in might just change things for the better?


Andy

Fuzz

I was waiting for someone to pipe up with that exact comment...

If you candy assed ******* actually voted for what you believed in, instead of voting the "party most likely to win" in, then perhaps this sh*thole of a country might be in a better position...
It only doesn't win because you don't bloody vote for them.

No offence Pete95.

Andy

Iwan

I took it a stage further today by joining the Conservative party this afternoon.

By the way, it costs £15 per year to join and as a member you get £18 off the RAC's top membership package.

mynickers

*Shakes head* oh dear!

I thought you got money off your local golf course and free membership to the Masons!

Iwan

Really? Awesome!

logiclee

Andy,

The Electricity that wind farms produce is a drop in the ocean (No pun intended). If every planning application for renewable power sources gets the approval and financial backing over the next 15 years it still will not be enough to offset the forecasted increase in demand never mind displace any fossil fuel generating plants.

No party has a realistic long term energy policy as planning to go nuclear or investing billions in clean burn technology is a vote looser.

The Tories including Howard started the rot by throwing away the countries coal reserves and creating the dash for gas which has lost this country 20 years of UK sourced cheap energy.

In the short to term we will rely heavily on expensive imported coal and gas, in the long term no party has an answer or a workable policy.

China, USA Canada and Australia are all investing heavily in new fossil fuel plants and all apart from China are installing new state of the art clean burn technology.

This country is going to experience the same blackouts that countries like Canada have suffered. Years of no investment and no clear long term policies will mean the UK will not have enough generation capacity to meet demand.

Just wait for your bills to soar and your lights to go out.

Cheers
Lee

Lum

Nuclear power is like air travel, it's actually bloody safe, but when one blows up it's all over the world news.
Oh, I have no problems with wind farms, though some environmental groups have finally cottoned on that they are damaging to birds, but the real issue is that there is absolutely no way that wind, solar, wave and all the other so-called renewable* energy forms will meet our power requirements, so we're left with a choice of fossil fuel or nuclear. So I put your question back to you, which would you rather have outside your back door? A coal/gas power station pumping out crap that will take 20 years off your life, or a nuclear power station which will not do that, but has a very minute risk of blowing up and taking you with it. It should be noted that you expose yourself to more risk when travelling by plane and that gas power stations aren't immune to blowing up either, though the damage isn't as great.
Our existing nuclear plants are nearing the end of their life and with present policy, and with lib dem policy, nothing will be around to make up the shortfall.
Fossil fuels will NEVER run out. Please read on before hitting the reply button and calling me a moron. There will always be some around, it will just gradually get harder to find, and more expensive to extract, so petrol prices will rise, yes it would be sensible to investigate alternative fuels now, and eventually it will become impossible to run a petrol car unless you're very cheap. This WILL happen, people will switch when it becomes too costly. The markets will provide as demand rises. LPG is a waste of space as it's still a fossil fuel, though it's a decent stopgap if you have an LPG station near you. The time is not right, human nature dictates that will happen when the oil is mostly gone, and to be honest who cares if we do it now or then, it's not like the oil is a threatened species worth conserving, it's thick black sludge that will have no merit or value at all once the switch is made. You wont get groups springing up called BlackPeace capmaigning to Save the Oil for future generations.

But that wasn't actuall the point I was making by calling the lib dems anti car. I was referring to the speed camera bandwagon and their lack of a road building policy (not to mention the complete mess they are making of the roads in Liverpool, through a combination of lack of maintenance, random closure of useful routes and insane "traffic calming" measures (ie. bus sometimes has difficulty getting out of it's stop in rush hour, so they fill in the bus stop and then extend the new pavement out into the road, and put the bus stop there, so when the bus stops everyone has to queue behind it for 10 minutes while the bus loads up with old grannies from the old granny factory around the corner.

I moved to this location because it was 5 minutes drive (at rush hour) from my employer at the time. When I left that job, it was taking me 40 minutes due to these kinds of measures.

*because when your energy source is billions of miles away and has plenty of years left before it burns out, it's not your problem, right? renewable.!

Edit: and it should be noted that the increased comuting time, has resulted in a 16 times increase in my pollution output on that run, if you ignore the fact that most of it was stop start as opposed to a free run, so the actual pollution output is even higher. Nice job!

Fuzz

A reduction in useage at my own home and a personal wind farm/ solar panel setup I would expect to suit my needs...

Imagine if everyone did this.......


but that's too easy.

Andy



Andy

paul-s

ok lets put it like this.....

1. everyone votes conservative
2. nothing changes in 4-8 years
3. everyone moans theyre crap and say they will be voting for labour

vicious circle.... ??

logiclee

Not easy to demolish nearly the entire UK housing stock and build everyone an eco house.

Personal wind farm and solar panel arrangement will not supply electricity and heating for 99.9% of UK homes unless you have a massive garden for a turbine and convert your roof into solar panels.

Unless someone invents some form of super panel and super conductor your plan is not workable on a country wide scale.

Cheers
Lee

Lum

Ahh, energy efficient homes. Oh how I would love to have an energy efficient home that didn't pour heat out of the windows and require the gass central heating to be on maximum for 4-6 months of the year (and still freezing in the colder months)

Unfortunately, I rent, and like most buy-to-let landlords they are a bunch of cheapskates who don't do a proper job on anything unless legally required to (they only fixed the tempramental firealarm that went off every time it rained after one of the tenants threatened to report it as a health hazzard because no-one took any notice of the fire alarm apart from to pull the fuse and battery and go back to bed.) they also wont let me do any changes myself (I asked if I could fit a shower at my own expense, the work would be done by an ACOPS certified plumber and I would leave it behind when I moved out, and they said no and told me to buy a crappy £1.50 thing to stick on the end of the taps.

As the buy to let bubble grows and house prices work their way towards the stratosphere, this problem is only going to get worse.

Have you actually investigated the costs of fitting your own wind warm and solar panels? It's not all that economical. I think if you sell your excess power back to the national grid you can pay for it in something like 20 years and the initial outlay would be enough to buy a small fleet of scoobs.

jasey

Ghengis Khan would have to be standing to get SN to change their votes

Lum

Hey, at least he was straightforward, honest and upfront.

jasey

Excatly - you knew where you stood with good old Ghengis

Lum

Under the hooves of his horse while he raped your daughter wasn't it?

Not too different from now then, except the daughter bit, that wont come in until the 3rd term.

warrenm2

Thats all lovely but the crucial bit you missed is it produces waste that kills all living things (apart from maybe a few extremophilic bacteria) for 10000 years.... factor in that, the Government subsidy that nuclear receives, the CO2 emissions in building it, and all the decommisionning costs and you'll find the sums dont quite add up


True enough, not got too much problem with that, it whats affordable that dictates what the market does.

Oops you cocked up there, its a major feedstock for manufacture of plastics....


You should apply this wider consequence analysis to nuclear too, although Ive already mentioned that!

Now dont be silly - we are not affecting its course by using it or not, are we?!

D70

Labour.

D70

Essex

D70

Lay-bour

D70

Ess-sex

D70

Lawn-darn

Lum

The sums dont add up for any energy source, we're screwed either way but we are less screwed if they build a couple of new nuclear power plants. We need something to tide us along until they make fusion work and a couple of tarted up windmills in the highlands isn't going to cut it.

I'm sure they'll come up with another way of producing their artificial materials once the oil gets expensive, same as they'll come up with another way of powering cars. Failing that maybe we'll start getting kit made of good strong wood or metal again, instead of crappy flimsy plastic.

No, but to claim it is renewable is false, and reflects nicely on the deluded ideologies of the hardcore of lentil eating environmentalist students on liberal arts courses. It also pisses them off when it is pointed out to them which is a good source of comedy (this also works when comparing the polution per person per km of a double decker bus compared to a car)