do P1's blow their engines?
09 April 2005, 01:37 PM
#31
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Deep Singh
So can you confirm for all the peeps here that you have abused your car? Fitted nitrous, run it on potato juice and put chip pan fat in for oil?
I doubt it.
Point proven I'm afraid chaps
ps sorry to hear about your engine matey
I doubt it.
Point proven I'm afraid chaps
ps sorry to hear about your engine matey
DBM and I both said that in the case of the P1 most of the problems seem to have arisen from Subaru not modifying the STi 5 set up sufficiently extensively to provide the kind of margin for error that the UK cars have, particularly with respect to fuel grades. This can be compounded by mods. So, we weren't saying that with respect to the P1 a) faults are due to the owners per se. b) that all owners who mod their P! will have problems: mods seem to excererbate the vulnerability caused by the exsisting half hearted UK fuel conversion, not cause it per se.
I',, not aware of any inherent weakness in the P1's oil pump over and above those in the UK cars, which very occassionally fail too. If you want to safeguage against this, fit an oil pressure guage. IMHO Subaru should fir Oli pressure temp and boost guages as std to the cars....better safe than sorry.
NS04
PS pretty poor show the dealer saying that they do give out between 50k and 80k given that the std warranty expires after 60k IIRC!!
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 09 April 2005 at 01:39 PM.
09 April 2005, 05:49 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
Except once agin, you're making inappropriate inferences from what was said:
DBM and I both said that in the case of the P1 most of the problems seem to have arisen from Subaru not modifying the STi 5 set up sufficiently extensively to provide the kind of margin for error that the UK cars have, particularly with respect to fuel grades. This can be compounded by mods. So, we weren't saying that with respect to the P1 a) faults are due to the owners per se. b) that all owners who mod their P! will have problems: mods seem to excererbate the vulnerability caused by the exsisting half hearted UK fuel conversion, not cause it per se.
I',, not aware of any inherent weakness in the P1's oil pump over and above those in the UK cars, which very occassionally fail too. If you want to safeguage against this, fit an oil pressure guage. IMHO Subaru should fir Oli pressure temp and boost guages as std to the cars....better safe than sorry.
NS04
PS pretty poor show the dealer saying that they do give out between 50k and 80k given that the std warranty expires after 60k IIRC!!
DBM and I both said that in the case of the P1 most of the problems seem to have arisen from Subaru not modifying the STi 5 set up sufficiently extensively to provide the kind of margin for error that the UK cars have, particularly with respect to fuel grades. This can be compounded by mods. So, we weren't saying that with respect to the P1 a) faults are due to the owners per se. b) that all owners who mod their P! will have problems: mods seem to excererbate the vulnerability caused by the exsisting half hearted UK fuel conversion, not cause it per se.
I',, not aware of any inherent weakness in the P1's oil pump over and above those in the UK cars, which very occassionally fail too. If you want to safeguage against this, fit an oil pressure guage. IMHO Subaru should fir Oli pressure temp and boost guages as std to the cars....better safe than sorry.
NS04
PS pretty poor show the dealer saying that they do give out between 50k and 80k given that the std warranty expires after 60k IIRC!!
I just d'ont agree that only 'abused' examples go bang. I know of many enthusiast owned cars that have gone the same way.
Its not just JDMs that go bigety bang, ring up any main dealer and ask him how many engines he rebuilds a month. You'll be suprised, or maybe shocked is the right word.
ps remember d'ont drive above your JDM above 100 mph because the car is'nt designed for that so it might go bang. Never heard anything so ridiculous
09 April 2005, 06:35 PM
#34
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bournemouth - 5x Ex Impreza owner. 997 GT3 CS.
Posts: 7,333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John Banks who has run his UK turbo MY99 for a few years with big mods, currently over 400 bhp iirc, hasn' blown his up. Explain that? I still agree that people fiddling are part of the problem, and some badly designed sensors.
As for the JDM over 100mph, I thought one of the Prodrive chaps posted on here about that? I can quite see how it "could" be a problem. The argument was an aerodynamic one, where at a certain high speed, air literally passed over the top of the scoop. If this is true, the charge temp rise would be massive and instant - and would be ugly... I am not a technical expert so I cant claim to dismiss thing like that as "ridiculous"
MB
As for the JDM over 100mph, I thought one of the Prodrive chaps posted on here about that? I can quite see how it "could" be a problem. The argument was an aerodynamic one, where at a certain high speed, air literally passed over the top of the scoop. If this is true, the charge temp rise would be massive and instant - and would be ugly... I am not a technical expert so I cant claim to dismiss thing like that as "ridiculous"
MB
09 April 2005, 10:58 PM
#35
Detonation is what kills most turbo engines - and that usually manifests itself in either melted pistons and/or boogered big ends - caused by the pre ignition shockwave travelling "down" the conrod before it's reached TDC. Detonation is usually caused by the car running lean or low octane fuel, combining with extra loads on the engine - heat, etc. Oil pumps sticking also do cause some issues, but far less in my opinion. Plus the Maf issues etc as mentioned before.
Most of the problems have been with JDM variants (of which the P1 with its StiV engine and ecu should be counted as one) and with highly modded Uk cars. The only adjustments made to the P1 for uk fuel was the aforementioned broquets - probably a negligible if any safety increase- and a slightly increased knock sensitivity to retard the timing if a bit of poor fuel is detected. Ecutek wasn't available for remapping ecus when the P1 was developed by Prodrive, although they do now use it for their current PPP remaps.
When these JDM based cars are not decatted, subaru are relying on them running sufficiently rich that they won't go lean enough to det at any time. Decat it and you have changed the scenario as much more air is now going through with relatively fixed amounts of fuel and you are now at risk. Ignore th people who say "i've run my Sti 3 decatted for 10 years and I've never had a problem" - they are lucky, that's all. A good custom remap such as the ecutek 3 ( but there are others) will involve the mapper going through the fuel map at various stages in the rev range for your individual car and adding back in extra fuel to keep the air fuel mix at the best level for your car. The off the shelf chips cannot be bespoke to your individual car's characteristics.
So, after a decat, IMHO the easiest thing for modest power increases and safety, is probably a Tek 3 remap by good mappers such as Bob Rawle, for instance. These run to about £6-700 (or other methods like Andy F's Power FC) although there are regular group buys that can reduce it. Add on a knocklink £120 ish and an upgraded fuel pump £100ish plus run it on good fuel plus octane booster ( NF adds about £2-£3 per tankful in cost) and don't drive at 140mph for hours on end and you should be fine.
As said before, try and get a one owner never modded version, if you can really trust the owner, or get one that has been remapped by some one respectable and where the owner clearly knows what he's on about.
PS Ignore Trolls like PS Lewis - he's just jealous that he couldn't afford a P1 at the time and has been a broken record ever since.
Most of the problems have been with JDM variants (of which the P1 with its StiV engine and ecu should be counted as one) and with highly modded Uk cars. The only adjustments made to the P1 for uk fuel was the aforementioned broquets - probably a negligible if any safety increase- and a slightly increased knock sensitivity to retard the timing if a bit of poor fuel is detected. Ecutek wasn't available for remapping ecus when the P1 was developed by Prodrive, although they do now use it for their current PPP remaps.
When these JDM based cars are not decatted, subaru are relying on them running sufficiently rich that they won't go lean enough to det at any time. Decat it and you have changed the scenario as much more air is now going through with relatively fixed amounts of fuel and you are now at risk. Ignore th people who say "i've run my Sti 3 decatted for 10 years and I've never had a problem" - they are lucky, that's all. A good custom remap such as the ecutek 3 ( but there are others) will involve the mapper going through the fuel map at various stages in the rev range for your individual car and adding back in extra fuel to keep the air fuel mix at the best level for your car. The off the shelf chips cannot be bespoke to your individual car's characteristics.
So, after a decat, IMHO the easiest thing for modest power increases and safety, is probably a Tek 3 remap by good mappers such as Bob Rawle, for instance. These run to about £6-700 (or other methods like Andy F's Power FC) although there are regular group buys that can reduce it. Add on a knocklink £120 ish and an upgraded fuel pump £100ish plus run it on good fuel plus octane booster ( NF adds about £2-£3 per tankful in cost) and don't drive at 140mph for hours on end and you should be fine.
As said before, try and get a one owner never modded version, if you can really trust the owner, or get one that has been remapped by some one respectable and where the owner clearly knows what he's on about.
PS Ignore Trolls like PS Lewis - he's just jealous that he couldn't afford a P1 at the time and has been a broken record ever since.
09 April 2005, 11:01 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DBM, you cannot compare JB to even the most enthusiastic owners.He is extremley well informed, understands cars and will have a whole variety of mods(I'm guessing here) but all sorts of gauges, fuel pumps, maybe fuel rail mod,oil catch tanks. He can also down load exactly whats going on eith his engine all the time.
You cannot compare the cars of JB, BR, AF etc to most enthusiasts. Also his is just one car. I'm not for one minute saying that EVERY Scoob goes bang. I'm saying that Scoobs are PRONE to going bang for a whole variety of reasons, not just due to 'abuse'
My comment about ic and 100 mph was a bit of a **** take. On an earlier thread one person thought it was abuse to run a JDM STi above 100 mph as the limit in Japan was 114(?) mph. The 100mph made the ic inefficient as you said and therefore det.
I just thought it was the funniest thing to say that a 280 BHP 4wd rally derived 'supercar' should not be taken above 100mph when my mums 1.4l Peugeot 206 does it with ease. Get the irony?
MAF,fuel,oil temp,thickness,soaking of the filter at oil change, heat sink when its hot, overboost when its cold, oil pump, fuel pump, weak crank blah blah blah. The excuses go on and on. ITS A FRAGILE ENGINE. Thats why thousands upon thousands go BIGETY BANG
You cannot compare the cars of JB, BR, AF etc to most enthusiasts. Also his is just one car. I'm not for one minute saying that EVERY Scoob goes bang. I'm saying that Scoobs are PRONE to going bang for a whole variety of reasons, not just due to 'abuse'
My comment about ic and 100 mph was a bit of a **** take. On an earlier thread one person thought it was abuse to run a JDM STi above 100 mph as the limit in Japan was 114(?) mph. The 100mph made the ic inefficient as you said and therefore det.
I just thought it was the funniest thing to say that a 280 BHP 4wd rally derived 'supercar' should not be taken above 100mph when my mums 1.4l Peugeot 206 does it with ease. Get the irony?
MAF,fuel,oil temp,thickness,soaking of the filter at oil change, heat sink when its hot, overboost when its cold, oil pump, fuel pump, weak crank blah blah blah. The excuses go on and on. ITS A FRAGILE ENGINE. Thats why thousands upon thousands go BIGETY BANG
09 April 2005, 11:18 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by pslewis
Many, Many Years ago a magazine said that these cars are bullet-proof IF (and this is the crux of the matter) IF they are NOT modified and pi$$ed about with!
Subaru design a car to do a job, reliably, for about 10 years ....... mess about with that design and its curtains!
Imported cars have no history and are designed to run in Japan ......... not here in the UK
I've said it before and I'll say it again ...... the very BEST Impreza is the One Owner, UK Car, with Full Subaru Service History, NOT modified, NOT raced, NOT tracked, NOT owned by anyone under the age of 40 - find one of these and forget the overrated P1 or Imported
You know it makes sense ..... if you want 350BHP - buy a car DESIGNED with that power in mind .....
Pete
Subaru design a car to do a job, reliably, for about 10 years ....... mess about with that design and its curtains!
Imported cars have no history and are designed to run in Japan ......... not here in the UK
I've said it before and I'll say it again ...... the very BEST Impreza is the One Owner, UK Car, with Full Subaru Service History, NOT modified, NOT raced, NOT tracked, NOT owned by anyone under the age of 40 - find one of these and forget the overrated P1 or Imported
You know it makes sense ..... if you want 350BHP - buy a car DESIGNED with that power in mind .....
Pete
Couldnt of said that better my self..
10 April 2005, 02:01 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: down southish
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the p1 has the same engine as the v5/6
the cause of detination is three thing
1 maf ill reading
2 fuel mix
3 top end driving for prolong time
end of thread.
the cause of detination is three thing
1 maf ill reading
2 fuel mix
3 top end driving for prolong time
end of thread.
10 April 2005, 02:05 PM
#40
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Deep Singh
ITS A FRAGILE ENGINE. Thats why thousands upon thousands go BIGETY BANG
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Our experience here at APi Engines after close on 600 rebuilds in 4 1/2 years comes down to the following.
Many cars have only been in the possession of the current driver [ who broke the engine ] for less than 3 weeks. Supposition is that they've not learnt how to drive it properly yet and rev the brains out of it and it won't take it. The red line is created by Subaru, but in practise the actual advisable red line on a standard car is some 500 rpm below the mark on the dial.
Running on wrong fuel on an import car. Detonation.
Inappropriate mods - nitrous fitted badly etc etc., un-remapped ecu's after an induction set and decat system fitted. Shift more air through the system you WILL NEED to add more fuel through the ecu.
OR perhaps most tellingly, 90 % of the cars that arrive here with broken engines are either on the fuel light or nearly on the fuel light. Suggesting that low fuel creates a weak mixture - detonation sets in and off she goes.
OR high road speed creating less air going through the top mount Intercooler heat soak sets in, fuel /air ratio weakens, detonation - bang. The bonnet scoop in standard form is remarkably inefficient above about 110 MPH
NEVER seen a 'failed' oil pump. In all those jobs, only ever fitted 3 new pumps because of debris damage".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not an expert, David most certainly is.
NS04
10 April 2005, 09:29 PM
#41
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by speedystu
the p1 has the same engine as the v5/6
the cause of detination is three thing
1 maf ill reading
2 fuel mix
3 top end driving for prolong time
end of thread.
the cause of detination is three thing
1 maf ill reading
2 fuel mix
3 top end driving for prolong time
end of thread.
Also:
its detonation not detination
three is more than one so its three thingS
10 April 2005, 09:41 PM
#42
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
I think it's time to remind ourselve of EXACTLY what David at API said esp with reference to incidence of oil pump failure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Our experience here at APi Engines after close on 600 rebuilds in 4 1/2 years comes down to the following.
Many cars have only been in the possession of the current driver [ who broke the engine ] for less than 3 weeks. Supposition is that they've not learnt how to drive it properly yet and rev the brains out of it and it won't take it. The red line is created by Subaru, but in practise the actual advisable red line on a standard car is some 500 rpm below the mark on the dial.
Running on wrong fuel on an import car. Detonation.
Inappropriate mods - nitrous fitted badly etc etc., un-remapped ecu's after an induction set and decat system fitted. Shift more air through the system you WILL NEED to add more fuel through the ecu.
OR perhaps most tellingly, 90 % of the cars that arrive here with broken engines are either on the fuel light or nearly on the fuel light. Suggesting that low fuel creates a weak mixture - detonation sets in and off she goes.
OR high road speed creating less air going through the top mount Intercooler heat soak sets in, fuel /air ratio weakens, detonation - bang. The bonnet scoop in standard form is remarkably inefficient above about 110 MPH
NEVER seen a 'failed' oil pump. In all those jobs, only ever fitted 3 new pumps because of debris damage".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not an expert, David most certainly is.
NS04
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Our experience here at APi Engines after close on 600 rebuilds in 4 1/2 years comes down to the following.
Many cars have only been in the possession of the current driver [ who broke the engine ] for less than 3 weeks. Supposition is that they've not learnt how to drive it properly yet and rev the brains out of it and it won't take it. The red line is created by Subaru, but in practise the actual advisable red line on a standard car is some 500 rpm below the mark on the dial.
Running on wrong fuel on an import car. Detonation.
Inappropriate mods - nitrous fitted badly etc etc., un-remapped ecu's after an induction set and decat system fitted. Shift more air through the system you WILL NEED to add more fuel through the ecu.
OR perhaps most tellingly, 90 % of the cars that arrive here with broken engines are either on the fuel light or nearly on the fuel light. Suggesting that low fuel creates a weak mixture - detonation sets in and off she goes.
OR high road speed creating less air going through the top mount Intercooler heat soak sets in, fuel /air ratio weakens, detonation - bang. The bonnet scoop in standard form is remarkably inefficient above about 110 MPH
NEVER seen a 'failed' oil pump. In all those jobs, only ever fitted 3 new pumps because of debris damage".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not an expert, David most certainly is.
NS04
1) Bad fuel
2) You go over 110mph( be careful or my mum might overtake you!!!)
3) Your tank is less than 1/4 full( never heard that for any other car)
4) Your fragile MAF fails
Add to that other experts opinions ie
1) Hot day,in traffic, ic gets heatsink, full wellY, det city
2) Cornering hard, fuel starvation
blah blah
And you're trying to tell me the Scoob is NOT fragile for a performance car?
Also d'ont forget there are plenty of people on this bbs who ahve done none of the above and still have had a major failure and a bill for £3.5-5k
Thats my definition of fragile
10 April 2005, 10:31 PM
#44
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WOW,Deep Singh,you realy have it in for the sccob it seems.
Out of interest,what do you drive?or have you owned or been in an Impreza?
Your comments give me a bit of dejavous,Im sure Ive heard opinions similar to yours before.
Engines do blow on the scoob,but I have come across some very high mileage scoobies (turbo models) that claim to have never had any major repair work done to the engines.
With so many SN members also claiming this (and with mods included),it does make one think that they are bullet proof (or can be).
Its just a shame that theres so many different types of 'bullets' being fired at the blasted thing all the time,and the fact that normal people (non technical users) are expected to know about the potential problems.
IMO,deep singh's comments are accurate,and I personally find the 100mph+ theory very annoying,along with having to be extra carefull with the type/amount/quality of the fuel that you use.
It always worries me when the missus has taken the car and its low on fuel....never has in any other car (what a **** thing to have to worry about).
BUT,I still like my car,and there isnt much else available for the price that offers as much fun,practicality,pleasure etc etc for the price
BTW,answer to the original question is YES!
Should you buy one now that you have been educated?
Take one for a test drive then think about it.
Out of interest,what do you drive?or have you owned or been in an Impreza?
Your comments give me a bit of dejavous,Im sure Ive heard opinions similar to yours before.
Engines do blow on the scoob,but I have come across some very high mileage scoobies (turbo models) that claim to have never had any major repair work done to the engines.
With so many SN members also claiming this (and with mods included),it does make one think that they are bullet proof (or can be).
Its just a shame that theres so many different types of 'bullets' being fired at the blasted thing all the time,and the fact that normal people (non technical users) are expected to know about the potential problems.
IMO,deep singh's comments are accurate,and I personally find the 100mph+ theory very annoying,along with having to be extra carefull with the type/amount/quality of the fuel that you use.
It always worries me when the missus has taken the car and its low on fuel....never has in any other car (what a **** thing to have to worry about).
BUT,I still like my car,and there isnt much else available for the price that offers as much fun,practicality,pleasure etc etc for the price
BTW,answer to the original question is YES!
Should you buy one now that you have been educated?
Take one for a test drive then think about it.
10 April 2005, 10:35 PM
#45
the dont go over 110MPH because the TMIC is ineficient is nonsense on the P1/STi5, sorry. I have driven thousands of miles on track the majority of which is above 100MPH and regularly over 140MPH with a stock TMIC on an STi5 and the charge temps were always under control, i had a charge temp gauge monitoring this.
What brought the charge temps up most was lots of on/off throttle medium speed high load driving, such as fast B road thrashing, but even with this charge temps are safe if you dont nail the car after sitting in traffic for ages on a hot day.
If you decat the P1/STi5 without a remap then you will get boost spikes and det, if you install an induction kit or oiled panel filter you will kill the MAF sensor quicker than with the stock airbox and a dry element air filter. It's a common problem to have deteriorating MAF sensors, on a well looked after P1/STi5 its advisable to install a new one at 50K miles IMHO.
P1 and STi5 are the same engine, the ECU is fundementally the same with the P1 having more sensitive knock algorithms in the software. On a stock STi5 you need to run SUL and an OB, i would suggest the same for a P1 if you want to get the best out of it and be on the safe side.
What brought the charge temps up most was lots of on/off throttle medium speed high load driving, such as fast B road thrashing, but even with this charge temps are safe if you dont nail the car after sitting in traffic for ages on a hot day.
If you decat the P1/STi5 without a remap then you will get boost spikes and det, if you install an induction kit or oiled panel filter you will kill the MAF sensor quicker than with the stock airbox and a dry element air filter. It's a common problem to have deteriorating MAF sensors, on a well looked after P1/STi5 its advisable to install a new one at 50K miles IMHO.
P1 and STi5 are the same engine, the ECU is fundementally the same with the P1 having more sensitive knock algorithms in the software. On a stock STi5 you need to run SUL and an OB, i would suggest the same for a P1 if you want to get the best out of it and be on the safe side.
11 April 2005, 01:47 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by pete P1
deep sing , why try to teach people to spell detonation.. when straight after your explaining to us the down side of heatsink...............sure its not heat soak??
ps its singH not sing(LOL)
11 April 2005, 01:49 PM
#48
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dij
WOW,Deep Singh,you realy have it in for the sccob it seems.
Out of interest,what do you drive?or have you owned or been in an Impreza?
Your comments give me a bit of dejavous,Im sure Ive heard opinions similar to yours before.
Engines do blow on the scoob,but I have come across some very high mileage scoobies (turbo models) that claim to have never had any major repair work done to the engines.
With so many SN members also claiming this (and with mods included),it does make one think that they are bullet proof (or can be).
Its just a shame that theres so many different types of 'bullets' being fired at the blasted thing all the time,and the fact that normal people (non technical users) are expected to know about the potential problems.
IMO,deep singh's comments are accurate,and I personally find the 100mph+ theory very annoying,along with having to be extra carefull with the type/amount/quality of the fuel that you use.
It always worries me when the missus has taken the car and its low on fuel....never has in any other car (what a **** thing to have to worry about).
BUT,I still like my car,and there isnt much else available for the price that offers as much fun,practicality,pleasure etc etc for the price
BTW,answer to the original question is YES!
Should you buy one now that you have been educated?
Take one for a test drive then think about it.
Out of interest,what do you drive?or have you owned or been in an Impreza?
Your comments give me a bit of dejavous,Im sure Ive heard opinions similar to yours before.
Engines do blow on the scoob,but I have come across some very high mileage scoobies (turbo models) that claim to have never had any major repair work done to the engines.
With so many SN members also claiming this (and with mods included),it does make one think that they are bullet proof (or can be).
Its just a shame that theres so many different types of 'bullets' being fired at the blasted thing all the time,and the fact that normal people (non technical users) are expected to know about the potential problems.
IMO,deep singh's comments are accurate,and I personally find the 100mph+ theory very annoying,along with having to be extra carefull with the type/amount/quality of the fuel that you use.
It always worries me when the missus has taken the car and its low on fuel....never has in any other car (what a **** thing to have to worry about).
BUT,I still like my car,and there isnt much else available for the price that offers as much fun,practicality,pleasure etc etc for the price
BTW,answer to the original question is YES!
Should you buy one now that you have been educated?
Take one for a test drive then think about it.
11 April 2005, 01:52 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by speedystu
fair play to you pete p1, so mr ******* deep singh take ya head out of your **** and take a fresh breath before you starve your brain anymore.
ps if you want to be formal, its Dr (*******) deep singh not Mr
11 April 2005, 02:19 PM
#51
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, let's keep it friendly people! 
LOL a Dr of *******! Nice one.....bet the exam was fun! 
When I tell people that my PhD exam was an "oral" one their eyes light up. When I explain what a Viva actually consists of, they look rather dissapointed!
BTW if you think Scooby engines are Fragile, try the BMW's with the VANOS system!
Regards,
NS04
Originally Posted by Deep Singh
Well done, your spelling is improving. Language leaves a little to be desired though...
ps if you want to be formal, its Dr (*******) deep singh not Mr
ps if you want to be formal, its Dr (*******) deep singh not Mr
When I tell people that my PhD exam was an "oral" one their eyes light up. When I explain what a Viva actually consists of, they look rather dissapointed!
BTW if you think Scooby engines are Fragile, try the BMW's with the VANOS system!
Regards,
NS04
11 April 2005, 06:42 PM
#53
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
Yeah, let's keep it friendly people!
LOL a Dr of *******! Nice one.....bet the exam was fun!
When I tell people that my PhD exam was an "oral" one their eyes light up. When I explain what a Viva actually consists of, they look rather dissapointed!
BTW if you think Scooby engines are Fragile, try the BMW's with the VANOS system!
Regards,
NS04
LOL a Dr of *******! Nice one.....bet the exam was fun!
When I tell people that my PhD exam was an "oral" one their eyes light up. When I explain what a Viva actually consists of, they look rather dissapointed!
BTW if you think Scooby engines are Fragile, try the BMW's with the VANOS system!
Regards,
NS04
Re;BMW, recall of loads of M3s, major engine fault.
11 April 2005, 06:58 PM
#54
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Deep Singh
If only I was a Dr of fcking I'd bring my work home with me!!
Re;BMW, recall of loads of M3s, major engine fault.
Re;BMW, recall of loads of M3s, major engine fault.
Yep, basically IIRC the culprit was one small, inexpensive part of the VANOS system causing one very big (expensive) problem!!
Regards,
NS04
11 April 2005, 08:21 PM
#58
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy-pay
so, yes P1's do blow engines then.....but maybe not quite as much as Dr Doom, sorry, Deep, Singh suggests!
.....stilll fancy one though!
.....stilll fancy one though!
As I said I love Scoobs(even though my doom prophecies may make it seem otherwise!)
