Originally Posted by johnwiz

Good luck Iain, unfortunately nothing surprises me re our "friends " in blue.
When I was assaulted in January in my STI because I upset some to**er by overtaking him (on a 60 mph road) did the police come & see me in hospital?
NO.
Did they fingerprint my car?NO
Now they have given up on finding him despite my injuries warranting a GBH or malicious wounding charge.
But drive a Subaru with a non standard exhaust , ooh, they'll pull out all the stops.
Police...Fu**ing wa**ers.(Sorry about the rant )
Cheers,John

Originally Posted by johnwiz

Good luck Iain, unfortunately nothing surprises me re our "friends " in blue.
When I was assaulted in January in my STI because I upset some to**er by overtaking him (on a 60 mph road) did the police come & see me in hospital?
NO.
Did they fingerprint my car?NO
Now they have given up on finding him despite my injuries warranting a GBH or malicious wounding charge.
But drive a Subaru with a non standard exhaust , ooh, they'll pull out all the stops.
Police...Fu**ing wa**ers.(Sorry about the rant )
Cheers,John

Originally Posted by Iain McLaren

Hi,

Just to keep you informed (as promised)... The Impreza's on it's way down to the testing station.

Subaru have given dad a Legacy while it's away. He said it didn't matter what it was as long as it had wheels...

Will let you know what happens.

Iain

Originally Posted by pslewis

Interesting this, I assume that if the PPP Backbox is fitted BEFORE you drive away after buying the car then you should be ok?

If, however, you fit the exhaust AFTER purchase then you are changing the designed output levels and therefore illegal?

Pete

Originally Posted by hades

That all depends on your interpretation of modifying the exhaust after date of manufacture - I think this is the place where there isn't a definitive answer. If you consider changing components to be modifying the exhaust, you are probably right. If you consider it applies to actually physically modifying an exhaust from how the exhaust was manufactured, then it comes back to the removing baffles etc.

The other interesting (?) question is whether e.g. kwik-fit exhausts can be proved to have the same/lower noise levels as an OEM one. Whilst they are probably very comparable (within a dB or two, and certainly quieter than a Blitz/HKS or even a prodrive exhaust), I bet they haven't proved it on all installations on all cars. How many older cars replace the existing silencer with OEM? If you take the "exhaust must be no louder than OEM on a new car", you'd probably find over 80% of cars on the road aren't proven to be legal.

Originally Posted by pslewis

Interesting this, I assume that if the PPP Backbox is fitted BEFORE you drive away after buying the car then you should be ok?

If, however, you fit the exhaust AFTER purchase then you are changing the designed output levels and therefore illegal?

Pete

Originally Posted by Scratch

Wonder if Prodrive could comment on this as well, especially ...

Originally Posted by Scratch

And I expect their exhausts are completely custom made....

Originally Posted by T5NYW

there are, but all WRC and Group N etc Cars have to be Road legal and are scrutineered either at the Factory (WRC's) or at stage starts(others) these tests include noise and emmisions. IIRC

Tony

Originally Posted by Iain McLaren

My dad's thought was that Subaru/the dealer should re-badge the car as part of the PPP installation (eg WRX-P), then plod would have nothing to compare it (and therefore the noise levels) to...

Originally Posted by MTR

The resultant outcome of this thread re 'illegal exhaust ' on a PPP specced WRX will be interesting.
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthre...illegal+exhaust
If the car was registered with the ABI as a defined specification car like the WR1, then it would not be classified as 'modified' and the whole argument with the Police would be negated.

Subaru/Prodrive are you taking note?

Cheers
MTR

Originally Posted by T5NYW

there are, but all WRC and Group N etc Cars have to be Road legal and are scrutineered either at the Factory (WRC's) or at stage starts(others) these tests include noise and emmisions. IIRC

Originally Posted by MTR

Taken from this thread http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...=414016&page=2

Iain, your dad and I are thinking along the same lines.

I am irked on insuring a modified car every year, and he is irked about being told he is driving an illegal car!!!

Bloody good state of afairs all round isn't it?

Cheers
MTR

Originally Posted by Scoobo Ferrari

The bigger question is why do Subaru not just send us the jap spec cars which don't need any mods at all for decent power output.

Originally Posted by Scoobo Ferrari

From the insurance point of view, you have still modded your car. Not only that but your genuine Subaru mod's are more desirable to thieves and more expensive to replace than normal mods - so I reckon you should pay more

Originally Posted by Iain McLaren

My dad's thought was that Subaru/the dealer should re-badge the car as part of the PPP installation (eg WRX-P), then plod would have nothing to compare it (and therefore the noise levels) to...

Originally Posted by MTR

I have created this edited version of my two letters I sent to Sam Burton the then managing director of Subaru UK. The new MD is Mr Peter Kinnaird.
see here http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=415302

Perhaps if everyone who owns a PPP'd specced WRX or STi Impreza copied and pasted this edited version of my first letter, and sent a copy to Prodrive and Subaru UK they might take some notice?

It will only cost you the price of two stamps/letters, and a couple of sheets of A4 paper.

Prodrives address is:

Mr D. Richards
Prodrive
Banbury
Oxfordshire
OX16 3ER
England


Mr Peter Kinnaird
Subaru UK Ltd.
Ryder Street
West Bromwhich,
West Midlands,
B70 0EJ

Dear Mr Kinnaird,
I have been extremely please with the ownership of my (type model type) PPP, and the driving pleasure it has given me.
The only potential drawback is the insurance aspect of attempting to insure an (type model type) with the PPP kit fitted. (PPP = Prodrive Performance Pack).

I would like to point out that I am (type age )years old, and have a clean driving licence (delet if not applicable) with (type number of years) number of years no claims bonus.
However even with all these positive elements, the vast majority of insurance companies do not quote on the WRX or WRX STi Type UK, unless it is standard.
The moment the PPP kit is mentioned, they have no idea what it comprises of, or that its fitted by the Subaru dealer, and as a consequence will not insure the car.

It is with some surprise I found that if I try and insure myself on a Impreza WR1 (which is in essence a modified/uprated STi with PPP, springs, driving lights, wheels & DCCD fitted) I have no problem, due to the vehicle in its final form i.e. with its modifications already fitted, being listed with the insurance industry.

Subaru UK (IM) have deemed it prudent to have the Impreza WR1, a vehicle with a limited production run of 500 units, registered with the UK insurance industry, and therefore enabled prospective owners to easily get insurance cover, just as Mitsibushi have done with their EVO FQ300/320/340/400 models.

I am surprised and a little disappointed that given the potential volume of sales for PPP’d equipped Impreza STi’s and of course WRX’s, which are not constrained to a limited production run, the same notification to the insurance industry has not been carried out.

I am quite positive that if this was the case then Subaru UK, the dealer network and Prodrive would be able to capture a greater share of the lucrative tuning market cash flow.
As the situation currently stands the only incentive to buy the PPP kit as opposed to potentially cheaper, and in my opinion technically inferior aftermarket products, is the manufactures warranty is upheld with the PPP.
Whatever tuning option is pursued, the insurance industry don’t like it, and will quote accordingly.

I feel that Subaru UK, their dealer network, and Prodrive are missing out on substantially increased sales and profit of PPP kits circa £1600 for WRX, £2000 for STi’s caused simply on the inability of a large section of your customer base being unable to get insurance at a reasonable cost.
As a marketing exercise getting the PPP specced cars listed with the insurance industry, as they are already shown in the Subaru literature in the dealers showrooms, would tempt far more buyers to actually buy the cars with PPP fitted in the first place, and not perhaps be tempted by one of the far cheaper to insure EVO models.

I feel that this really is an opportunity to create a Win-Win situation, for you (Subaru UK) the dealer network and Prodrive with increased turnover in cars and PPP kits fitted to existing cars sold, and the lessened problems associated by owners like myself in insuring their cars.

Every opportunity to reduce the negative aspects of ownership for your customers can only help in building a stronger and more loyal customer base.
And more importantly for you, increase profits.
I’m sure you would agree, that is a good thing.

Additionally this would have the added bonus of making aftermarket tuning financially less attractive to the customer due to increased insurance premiums, compared to the Subaru approved, fitted and warranted PPP kit, you could potentially eliminate the aftermarket tuning and warranty repair problem faced by Subaru UK.


Yours Faithfully
(insert name)

Cheers
MTR

Originally Posted by Iain McLaren

Had a thought this morning... Mitsubishi do this don't they? (Can I mention Evos here? )

When the performance pack is added to an FQ300 it becomes an FQ330 (or so I read in Auto Express or something). I don't know what components the Evo PP includes though.