TonyFlow

HAHA funny aint ya!

No pictures as yet - havent had a chance to meet up with the bloke -both been busy @ work - rest assured I will get some!

I can't remember saying anything about a 666 badge on the back of the car? Still awaiting BMW getting back to me, they have apparently forwarded my request to the relevant department for assessment.

What would be really funny is if the car is real, then all you ***** would be wrong, and effectively taking the p1ss out of yourselves!

ScoobyJawa

LOL

TonyFlow

Also, if BMW come back and say the car is real, I would doubt very much that any of you lot will believe me - so I am fcuked from all ways really (thanks for the spit-roast)!

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Leave the camera at home for that bit, LOL

TonyFlow

LOL

Cosworth427

I only doubt the horsepower and torque, the whole graph itself in my judgement is fake. Assuming this is factory special comes with a 3.xx litre S50 series engine.

With a questionable graph like that it takes away credibility from any faxes and scans that say this factory special actually exists.

The_Titanium_Knob_Man

well we're still waiting for the definitive answer about this Beemer.......


the 666 badge reference is obviously light banter....i always think its important not to take yourself too seriously.

The thing is Tony, you've been banging on about this special BMW since the 25th February, now call me impatient if you like but that means in terms of time its nearly a quarter of a year!!! and we haven't seen any evidence which isn't dodgy to say the least.

and you reckon all of us are laughing at ourselves ?
I admit though it has been fun and I'd gladly admit i'm the nobend here if the times comes and this is shown to be what you say it is.

Surely though with the above mentioned timescale, u can see I have a point

TonyFlow

I do agree, and as mentioned before - if I were on the other side, I would more than likely think it is fake! Again, my arguments have only been light banter (although looking back, they could have been taken other ways - perhaps I will have to use more smileys).

Agreed RE Dates, but the documentation had only been with the guy a few days before I uploaded it here - since I have been on numerous training courses, and the blokes company is moving premises (and as he is an engineer - he gets to dismantle/put together all the machinery etc).

I will get some pictures asap - although I am not sure how they will help tbh, as they will not show any internal engine work/ECU mapping etc!

The guy doesn't really give a toss as to what the car is, he is only interested in driving it, and as such, doesnt understand what the car may be (certainly if it was special, he would sell it on if it demanded a premium over a "normal" m3). That is why getting dyno plots etc has not been an option, as I don't think he cares about the output!

I will deffo try to get some pics, and will post up any reply I get from BMW (although I am only in email contact at the moment so if they confirm the car (not that they will) - then people will still not believe me (I wouldn't if it was the other way round))! At least I would know!

Cosworth - Can you confirm if you agree with my torque figures (100 odd lb/ft at 2krpms) - as I can't see where you made the high figure (at 2krpms)from!

Could anyone tell me - if the car is as the docs state it, what I will need to prove to anyone on here it is real? Documents from BMW will not do, as they can be faked, pics of the engine will not do, as they will not show power, dyno charts (if I could get the guy to do one) can be faked to - so like I said, fcuked from all ways!

Cosworth427

Your calculation is correct, mine was wrong. But nethertheless it's making considerable power and torque at such low revs and at the same time making more than race car like power at higher revs, which doesnt add up. It's twin vanos helps, but not that much.

TonyFlow

I know nothing about the BMW's (or many) engines/abilities, so I will bow to your superior knowledge.

I will wait to see what BMW come back with!

TonyFlow

Looking @ the dyno charts on this thread - the torque & BHP @ 2krpms is bang on with some of the modded M3's - OK, higher in the rev range the torque + BHP figures are like chalk and cheese, but certainly, the figures are in no way unbelievable lower in the rev range!

Cosworth427

Because the tuned M3's use the same cam shaft and same inlet paths through the rev range, the more radical the cams and the tuning, the less power and torque you will make at low rpms. You will be lucky to have the car idle at all with race cams.

And again, this car is making more torque than F1 engines of similar capacity. Just how can a 12 year old street car engine out breath a modern top level F1 engine?

TonyFlow

I am not disagreeing that the figures suggest unbeliveable (literally) amounts of power/torque at high rpms, just that the torque and power levels at low rpms are quite believable.

As mentioned, I am no mechanic/engineer, so if the claims are correct (which the likelihood is they are not), i have no idea how they made such figures from 12 year old technology - perhaps the same way many companies make 15bhp from an induction kit

TonyFlow

Also, didn't the NA BMW M1 Procars develop about 140bhp per litre (making the technology to get these power levels available as far back as 1980)?

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Those kind of power levels have always been possible, it just the problem of doing it for more than one race, having to make it take standard fuel, making it tickover, do more than 5 mpg, not spit flames, not defen the occupants/ passers by, meet emissions regulations etc etc, the old F12 engines like the Cosworth DFV made big power but you wouldnt want one in a road car.

And Renault got 1200 bhp from a 1.5 litre Turbo engine in the eighties, or something like that.

Bike engines put out 150 bhp a litre + these days !

Tommy_Lee

How high did the M1 pro's rev to??

The GRP-A E30 M3's were knocking out over 300bhp and with just 2.5 and 4cyl.But this was @9k+revs!

The most you will ever see from a S50/B32 road engine is 350bhp and that would be a very expensive venture.

drb5

iTrader: (4)

I know you say it has a print out of power, but why not get it on some rollers at the moment? Doesn't cost much to tie the arguments all up?!

Cosworth427

It's the torque per litre thats unbelievable, not the power.

TonyFlow

The guy who's car it is is not interested in if it has that much power or not, just how it drives, the reason I am looking into this is because I think if it is true, it should go to a collector, and possibly make him $hitloads of cash by selling it!

I am in contact with a couple of BMW bods, I just have to send them the VIN and they will forward me more information!

As mentioned, even if it was dyno'd, I would be accused of faking the figures (if indeed they were that high, which atm looks highly unlikely)!

TopBanana

You're taking it too personally!

TonyFlow

I have been - been a bit stressed @ work - not really taking it personally now - if BMW come back and say its real, then I will be happy, and not overly worried if anybody believes me or not - I will know, and that is all that bothers me TBH!

J4CK50N

Get it dynoed and take one of the so called sceptics with you. Just tell the owner that it will help determine whether it is something special or not. IE set to make him rich or not.

That way it is sorted all in one go.

I have enjoyed reading this thread though over the weeks. I for one hope it is what you say it is, but am holding out judgement until it is sorted.

Cheers

J4CK50N

TonyFlow

Thank you!
As mentioned, the owner is not interested in what it is, only that he like the way it drives, I am just interested because, a) I am a nosey git, b) I thought it seemed too good to be true, and c) it could stand be worth a lot of money if it is true!

I am no longer interested if the chaps on here believe me or not, that is their choice (and as I have said, I would not believe it if it were the other way round), if BMW come back and say to me it is real, that would be good enough for me - if they come back and say it is fake, then a stern letter of complaint will be going to the local dealer (who supplied the info)and BMW customer services!

The_Titanium_Knob_Man

sounds fair enough to me.....let us know what the outcome is....

The_Titanium_Knob_Man

Did anything happen with this car ? Did you get the pics ?

trancer

They probably would because it would quite simply almost certanly be impossible to get such power output gains from an M3 with out visible physical changes to the engine. Even minor changes would be easily spotted my an M3 enthusiast / owner

hawkthescoobslayer

Takes me backto the good old days when someone got flamed for posting details about a "limited edition imprezza" he got with 300bhp BEFORE the PPP came out


ahhhhhhh bisto

TonyFlow

Still trying to sort out when the guy will be using it (he is a fair weather biker, so I have got to wait for the cr4ppy weather to kick in, then I will get some pics!

drb5

iTrader: (4)

Top, for some answers!

TonyFlow

Will see what I can do! I know it is in for a spray job/dent fix as we had hail the size of golf ***** here a couple of weeks ago, and they apparently made a right mess of the bonnet and boot!