anyone know much about birds?
12 May 2005, 08:49 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by Daryl
Name calling, eh? Very mature! Cats don't have consciences, do you think they kill birds just to wind up people like you and ajm? 
At least do us the courtesy of admitting that the only reason your cat is out there killing wildlife is because YOU decided you wanted a furry pet that you could put on your lap in the evening and then boot outside to look after itself when you have better things to do.
But you should know the difference between right and wrong, not sure you can expect a cat to have any morals. In any case, the examples you use involve illegal acts, and they can hardly be compared to letting a cat out of the house (even if you'd like them to be).
The fact that it is legal doesn't excuse you from your moral obligations either. It is illegal to release mink into the wild because of the damage they do to wildlife, the fact that cats are legal is a ridiculous loophole in the law and the sooner something is done about it the better!
12 May 2005, 08:58 AM
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Mrs Leslie who knows a bit about birds as a wild life painter, says it is either a Chiff Chaff or a member of the warbler family. It has got a pretty long beak. She says sorry it died too.
Les
Les
12 May 2005, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Leslie
Mrs Leslie who knows a bit about birds as a wild life painter, says it is either a Chiff Chaff or a member of the warbler family. It has got a pretty long beak. She says sorry it died too.
Les
Les
thought the beak was over long for a blackbird etc-thats why i thought crow or magpie cos they are quite common here
richie
12 May 2005, 10:23 AM
#34
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cats can't fly, so odds are in the favour of the bird each time!!!
should be a lesson to other birds for teasing Tiddles !!!
PS: i like cats and birds 50/50 so its an unbiased opinion...
BB
should be a lesson to other birds for teasing Tiddles !!!
PS: i like cats and birds 50/50 so its an unbiased opinion...
BB
12 May 2005, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ajm
No, it is NOT "only nature". Nature never intended domestic cats to be roaming freely in our environment. 
Nature never intended for the comet to wipe out the dinosuars.......birds are lucky they arent getting eaten by giant fcukin lizards so should think themselves lucky!
12 May 2005, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ajm
Since you have chosen to bring me into this... do I wind you up?
And no, you don't wind me up, neither does richieh or anyone else on this thread. I was merely putting across my point of view.
My cat killed a bird this morning, and I had to clear up the mess. I was sad that the bird died, but accept that's what cats sometimes do. I also accept that if I didn't have a cat, it wouldn't have killed that bird, so I have to live with that fact. But it is my decision and as long as it's not against the law I will defend my right to own one.
FWIW, I put up several bird feeders in my garden about 5 years ago, and they have no doubt provided much needed food for dozens of fledglings, who might otherwise not have survived. If you blame my cat ownership for the death of birds, then you should also recognise the contibution I have made in saving many more others.
I trust you have bird feeders in your garden
12 May 2005, 10:57 AM
#37
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The fact that it is legal doesn't excuse you from your moral obligations either. It is illegal to release mink into the wild because of the damage they do to wildlife, the fact that cats are legal is a ridiculous loophole in the law and the sooner something is done about it the better!
I hate cats sh!tting in my garden but i'm not about to start a personal crusade against cat owners. I just try and deter the cats from being in my garden with a hose pipe or by chasing after them and I certainly wouldn't try and cause them any harm like some on this BBS would
Cats are a socially accepted part of our society and its something you will always have to live with ajm while you live in the UK as thankfully nutters such as you are a tiny minority and will never be taken seriously
12 May 2005, 11:11 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by Daryl
you don't wind me up, neither does richieh or anyone else on this thread. I was merely putting across my point of view.
Originally Posted by Daryl
My cat killed a bird this morning, and I had to clear up the mess. I was sad that the bird died, but accept that's what cats sometimes do. I also accept that if I didn't have a cat, it wouldn't have killed that bird, so I have to live with that fact. But it is my decision and as long as it's not against the law I will defend my right to own one .
I'd expect this of any responsible pet owner
Originally Posted by Daryl
I trust you have bird feeders in your garden
richie
12 May 2005, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiggs
Nature never intended for the comet to wipe out the dinosuars.......birds are lucky they arent getting eaten by giant fcukin lizards so should think themselves lucky!
12 May 2005, 11:27 AM
#44
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Cheers Les, I used to own two of the little gits and found they weren't fond of bikes, a gsxr being revved right next to them just as they take a dump in the flower bed makes them jump about 4 foot in the air
Have recently found a floor in this plan, one of the local cats is deaf as a post, I put the bike right up next to him, revved it right up and he just looked at me lol, poor sod can't hear a damn thing which also makes him a bit unaware, you just creep up behind him and tap him on the back instead, that does the trick
Have recently found a floor in this plan, one of the local cats is deaf as a post, I put the bike right up next to him, revved it right up and he just looked at me lol, poor sod can't hear a damn thing which also makes him a bit unaware, you just creep up behind him and tap him on the back instead, that does the trick
12 May 2005, 11:33 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by Daryl
You brought yourself into it, you make your feelings about cats very well known!
And no, you don't wind me up, neither does richieh or anyone else on this thread. I was merely putting across my point of view.
My cat killed a bird this morning, and I had to clear up the mess. I was sad that the bird died, but accept that's what cats sometimes do. I also accept that if I didn't have a cat, it wouldn't have killed that bird, so I have to live with that fact. But it is my decision and as long as it's not against the law I will defend my right to own one.
FWIW, I put up several bird feeders in my garden about 5 years ago, and they have no doubt provided much needed food for dozens of fledglings, who might otherwise not have survived. If you blame my cat ownership for the death of birds, then you should also recognise the contibution I have made in saving many more others.
I trust you have bird feeders in your garden
And no, you don't wind me up, neither does richieh or anyone else on this thread. I was merely putting across my point of view.
My cat killed a bird this morning, and I had to clear up the mess. I was sad that the bird died, but accept that's what cats sometimes do. I also accept that if I didn't have a cat, it wouldn't have killed that bird, so I have to live with that fact. But it is my decision and as long as it's not against the law I will defend my right to own one.
FWIW, I put up several bird feeders in my garden about 5 years ago, and they have no doubt provided much needed food for dozens of fledglings, who might otherwise not have survived. If you blame my cat ownership for the death of birds, then you should also recognise the contibution I have made in saving many more others.
I trust you have bird feeders in your garden
Ok, firstly well done for not trying to divert the discussion to dog ownership as most cat nutters do.... or do you own a dog too?
At least you are half way to finally standing up and admitting that you know animals die because you have a pet you are unwilling to control, but you don't care because its legal!
Well done for the bird feeders though, I'm not sure I like the way you use them to offset the environmental cost of cat ownership but good show anyway.
I don't have bird feeders in my garden any more, I find gathering birds around a feeder makes them easy pickings for the local non-indigenous predators.
12 May 2005, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by **************
LOL dream on, releasing mink into the wild is not the same as owning a cat. Comparing apples with oranges again.
What is the difference between releasing a mink and a cat? They are both voracious predators, except one is legal simply becuase it has historically been a pet.
There is no moral obligation in owning a cat apart from the fact you will look after it by feeding it, making sure it doesn't become ill and give it attention when it wants it.
You have a MORAL obligation to make sure your actions don't have a negative impact upon your surroundings and your neighbours. Cat ownership, where the cat is released free to roam, is selfish and amoral, no matter how pampered you think little Tiddles is!
Cats are a socially accepted part of our society and its something you will always have to live with ajm while you live in the UK as thankfully nutters such as you are a tiny minority and will never be taken seriously
The current situation is unsustainable. What would happen if every single person utilised their right to release moggies into the environment? That can't happen, therefore it figures that control measures will eventually have to be put in place, hopefully before we start losing species altogether. Other countries are already starting to take action against irresponsible cat ownership.
In the meantime, "nutters" like me will exercise our right to live without being infringed upon by the selfish actions of others.
12 May 2005, 12:09 PM
#47
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I don't own any cats anymore so I am not part of your selfish uncaring and irresponsible cat owning enemy so can defend cats as a non owner.
I don't like cats utilising my garden as a toilet either or catching birds and mice. However they are an accepted legal pet which can be owned/kept by anyone and let to roam free. Thats life and until there is a massive swing in society to the hatred of cats then they will always remain to be a legal and owned in the way they are currently.
One thing I will say is that owners of cats should always collar the cat and the collar should have some sort of bell on it to help poor old birdie hear it coming. We used to put cow bells on ours, slowed them down considerably
12 May 2005, 12:14 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by **************
I don't own any cats anymore so I am not part of your selfish uncaring and irresponsible cat owning enemy so can defend cats as a non owner.
I don't like cats utilising my garden as a toilet either or catching birds and mice. However they are an accepted legal pet which can be owned/kept by anyone and let to roam free. Thats life and until there is a massive swing in society to the hatred of cats then they will always remain to be a legal and owned in the way they are currently.
One thing I will say is that owners of cats should always collar the cat and the collar should have some sort of bell on it to help poor old birdie hear it coming. We used to put cow bells on ours, slowed them down considerably
12 May 2005, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ajm
At least you are half way to finally standing up and admitting that you know animals die because you have a pet you are unwilling to control, but you don't care because its legal!
Well done for the bird feeders though, I'm not sure I like the way you use them to offset the environmental cost of cat ownership...
) and living next to open countryside means that the cats don't try to catch birds in the garden. In fact, because the fledglings are fit and healthy on leaving the nest, there is much less chance of cats catching them
12 May 2005, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
I dunno, NL seem happy to ban something if 2 or 3 people protest about something, maybe we need to write to our MP's to get cats banned?
I find myself torn because I also hate ban culture with a passion. I don't want people to lose the right to own cats, I just want them to be classed the same as all other non-indigenous species and prohibited from being released freely!
So from that point of view I could never support a ban on ownership.... though it would tear me up inside!
12 May 2005, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ajm
At least do us the courtesy of admitting that the only reason your cat is out there killing wildlife is because YOU decided you wanted a furry pet that you could put on your lap in the evening and then boot outside to look after itself when you have better things to do.
The moral burden lies with YOU the owner. You must take responsibility for the damage your pet does. You can't just offload it onto the cat with a "oh well that's what they do"!
!
The moral burden lies with YOU the owner. You must take responsibility for the damage your pet does. You can't just offload it onto the cat with a "oh well that's what they do"!
!
12 May 2005, 01:13 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by Daryl
It's nothing to do with not caring because it's legal, I make a balanced decision based on numerous factors. I derive pleasure from owning a cat, as I'm sure you do with your fish. The environmental impact of cats is something I have to weigh up when making the decision to own one. The same goes for lots of other things we own, of course, including your fish, cars etc.
For example, I read a letter in my local paper the other day, someone complaining their cat had been run over "no doubt by one of the cars using our road as a race track". Responsibility neatly offloaded onto the unknown driver. Errrr... no my friend, YOU are responsible for your animal's welfare, the fault lies squarely at your feet!
If cat owners were big enough to step up and confess that they value their own need for a pet more highly than their neighbour's right to pooh-free lawns and local songbirds and small mammal's rights to live then at least we could have a sensible discussion regarding morality, rather than the usual mud flinging bun fights we normally get!
12 May 2005, 02:02 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by ajm
... rather than the usual mud flinging bun fights we normally get!
IIRC if said cat had actually cause an accident, i.e. the driver in trying to avoid the cat had crashed, then the cat owner would have been liable. I'm sure that came out of one of the previous bun fights!
12 May 2005, 02:11 PM
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I've got to that I too am sick with cat owners not taking responsibility for their cats damage to the surrounding area.
I have nothing against cats (not my personal choice of pet but each to their own) but can you imagine a scenario......
Dog owner lives opposite. You see their dog prop it's self up on the side of your car to have a look inside, leaving behind some big claw scratches in the paint. What do you do?
Cat owner lives opposite. You see their cat leap onto the roof of your car slide down the a-pillar scratching the paint. What do you do?
Chances are the owner of the dog will be getting grief because of the lack of control of their "pet", whilst cat owner hides behind "thats what they do" excuse.
Does get a bit annoying!
Ade
I have nothing against cats (not my personal choice of pet but each to their own) but can you imagine a scenario......
Dog owner lives opposite. You see their dog prop it's self up on the side of your car to have a look inside, leaving behind some big claw scratches in the paint. What do you do?
Cat owner lives opposite. You see their cat leap onto the roof of your car slide down the a-pillar scratching the paint. What do you do?
Chances are the owner of the dog will be getting grief because of the lack of control of their "pet", whilst cat owner hides behind "thats what they do" excuse.
Does get a bit annoying!
Ade
12 May 2005, 02:43 PM
#56
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LOL you must have some pretty big cats round your way If a big dog jumps at a car firstly it weighs many times more than a cat and secondly a dogs nails do not retract, they are not claws but nails. They will leave scratches.
I have had cats and they used to sleep on my scoob all the time, they never left one scratch mark anywhere on the paint work. Cats claws are naturally retracted and unless they are going to try and grip a metal surface of a car (which would be pointless) they do not extend their claws when walking over a car!
If a big dog jumps at a car firstly it weighs many times more than a cat and secondly a dogs nails do not retract, they are not claws but nails. They will leave scratches.I have had cats and they used to sleep on my scoob all the time, they never left one scratch mark anywhere on the paint work. Cats claws are naturally retracted and unless they are going to try and grip a metal surface of a car (which would be pointless) they do not extend their claws when walking over a car!
12 May 2005, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by **************
LOL you must have some pretty big cats round your way If a big dog jumps at a car firstly it weighs many times more than a cat and secondly a dogs nails do not retract, they are not claws but nails. They will leave scratches.
I have had cats and they used to sleep on my scoob all the time, they never left one scratch mark anywhere on the paint work. Cats claws are naturally retracted and unless they are going to try and grip a metal surface of a car (which would be pointless) they do not extend their claws when walking over a car!
If a big dog jumps at a car firstly it weighs many times more than a cat and secondly a dogs nails do not retract, they are not claws but nails. They will leave scratches.I have had cats and they used to sleep on my scoob all the time, they never left one scratch mark anywhere on the paint work. Cats claws are naturally retracted and unless they are going to try and grip a metal surface of a car (which would be pointless) they do not extend their claws when walking over a car!
12 May 2005, 03:02 PM
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I know what they do when they stretch but claws like to be sunk into soft material like carpet or furniture, not onto an inpenetrable surface like metal, like I said mine slept on my car, walked all over my car etc and never left anything but muddy foot prints which although annoying do not cost anything to remove!
12 May 2005, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by **************
LOL you must have some pretty big cats round your way If a big dog jumps at a car firstly it weighs many times more than a cat and secondly a dogs nails do not retract, they are not claws but nails. They will leave scratches.
I have had cats and they used to sleep on my scoob all the time, they never left one scratch mark anywhere on the paint work. Cats claws are naturally retracted and unless they are going to try and grip a metal surface of a car (which would be pointless) they do not extend their claws when walking over a car!
If a big dog jumps at a car firstly it weighs many times more than a cat and secondly a dogs nails do not retract, they are not claws but nails. They will leave scratches.I have had cats and they used to sleep on my scoob all the time, they never left one scratch mark anywhere on the paint work. Cats claws are naturally retracted and unless they are going to try and grip a metal surface of a car (which would be pointless) they do not extend their claws when walking over a car!
12 May 2005, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by **************
LOL you must have some pretty big cats round your way If a big dog jumps at a car firstly it weighs many times more than a cat and secondly a dogs nails do not retract, they are not claws but nails. They will leave scratches.
If a big dog jumps at a car firstly it weighs many times more than a cat and secondly a dogs nails do not retract, they are not claws but nails. They will leave scratches.The B2Z technique for debate on the internet --->
