Is it impossible to sack anyone these days?
#32
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It's not quite so easy to paddle someone these days. As of 1st October 2004, the DTI implemented the following procedures for resolving workplace disputes, which are now law. Basically if these steps are not taken, the employee can claim unfair dismissal.
1. Put it in writing, ie. detail all their transgressions including evidence where appropriate and you must also state they have a right to appeal.
2. Meet the employee in person to discuss the contents of your letter. After the meeting make your decision (ie. pick up your cards) and inform them of their right to appeal.
3. (if it gets this far) Appeal procedure. This is basically a meeting as above where the employee puts his case forward for appeal, but ultimately it is your decision whether to keep him on or send him down the road.
If you DO NOT follow the above 3 steps the dismissal becomes automatically 'unfair' and the employee is awarded a mandatory minimum of 4 weeks pay. Also in the event of a claim, any compo he gets can be increased between 10-50%. Similarly if the employee fails to turn up for the meetings, etc. then tries to do you for unfair dismissal, he'll get his compo reduced by 10-50%
More info here :
http://www.dti.gov.uk/resolvingdisputes
I would also recommend you check his employment contract, particularly with reference to his sudden 'holiday' - hopefully you should have some sort of minimum notice period for holidays, and you can put this in your case against him.
1. Put it in writing, ie. detail all their transgressions including evidence where appropriate and you must also state they have a right to appeal.
2. Meet the employee in person to discuss the contents of your letter. After the meeting make your decision (ie. pick up your cards) and inform them of their right to appeal.
3. (if it gets this far) Appeal procedure. This is basically a meeting as above where the employee puts his case forward for appeal, but ultimately it is your decision whether to keep him on or send him down the road.
If you DO NOT follow the above 3 steps the dismissal becomes automatically 'unfair' and the employee is awarded a mandatory minimum of 4 weeks pay. Also in the event of a claim, any compo he gets can be increased between 10-50%. Similarly if the employee fails to turn up for the meetings, etc. then tries to do you for unfair dismissal, he'll get his compo reduced by 10-50%
More info here :
http://www.dti.gov.uk/resolvingdisputes
I would also recommend you check his employment contract, particularly with reference to his sudden 'holiday' - hopefully you should have some sort of minimum notice period for holidays, and you can put this in your case against him.
#33
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Originally Posted by silver sonic
give him the ****tiest jobs you can within his terms and conditions,
and basically make his day a nightmare ,but stay within his terms , till the ****** leaves !
but first give him verbals , then written about absenteeism!
and basically make his day a nightmare ,but stay within his terms , till the ****** leaves !
but first give him verbals , then written about absenteeism!
Employment law is a pain in the *** - but it's there to protect everyone - even you perhaps one day.
Basically you need to document everything clearly - and have a 'return to work' interview with them on Monday. If you want to give them a verbal warning then there's strict procedures to be followed - even down to the wording of the letter inviting them along.
Before you even head in that direction though, make sure they have had a copy of their contract and that you've got a signed copy back to prove they've read it (though beware, we recently got caught out because we got someone to sign to say they'd read a document, but not to say they'd understood it ).
Next check the exact wording of the contract - is it clear that their behaviour is explicitly breaking the terms of the contract?
If it's a performance issue, you'll be required to demonstrate that you've offered remedial training and support before you can dismiss someone.
Give me a few mins and I'll go and dig out a link or something that might help.
(And don't have a go at me - I didn't write the damned laws! )
#34
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This might help - from the CIPD (Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development) Website (basically the HR professional institute).
Stages of the process
If disciplinary action is to be taken, it should always have three main stages:
All records should be kept meticulously, as this will be vital should a case be perused at an employment tribunal. Since the burden of proof is on the employer to show that the dismissal is not unfair or unreasonable, keeping records is vital. Type of records that should be kept by employers are minutes of meetings, attendance, notes of telephone calls, copies of correspondence etc.
Handing disciplinary interviews
All line managers should be trained and supported so that they are able to carry out disciplinary interviews with their team. The HR department should be able to assist them by providing a source of independent advice on preparing for and conducting the interview, as well as sharing knowledge about similar cases in the organisation and relevant legislation.
The key points to consider are:
Potential outcomes
It is possible that after any stage no warning will be given to the individual. It may be decided, for example, that they were unclear about what was expected from them and that they agree to try to resolve the issue via additional support or counselling.
Alternatively, the decision could be to give the employee a warning. An organisation's policy should outline exactly what warnings will be given, but the following are likely:
Any warning should also specify a review period during which the individual receives appropriate support and their performance can be monitored.
Disciplinary warnings should normally have a specified 'life' after which they are disregarded when considering any subsequent warnings. Typical timescales for the types of warning are:
Dismissal
There are five permitted reasons for dismissal:
Stages of the process
If disciplinary action is to be taken, it should always have three main stages:
- investigation - which must be full and fair in order to determine the facts and to decide whether further action is necessary
- disciplinary interview
- appeal.
All records should be kept meticulously, as this will be vital should a case be perused at an employment tribunal. Since the burden of proof is on the employer to show that the dismissal is not unfair or unreasonable, keeping records is vital. Type of records that should be kept by employers are minutes of meetings, attendance, notes of telephone calls, copies of correspondence etc.
Handing disciplinary interviews
All line managers should be trained and supported so that they are able to carry out disciplinary interviews with their team. The HR department should be able to assist them by providing a source of independent advice on preparing for and conducting the interview, as well as sharing knowledge about similar cases in the organisation and relevant legislation.
The key points to consider are:
- Ensure you have investigated all the facts in advance (including consulting the individual's personal file for relevant information) and plan how you will approach the meeting.
- Make sure the individual knows in advance why they have been asked to the meeting and are aware that it is a disciplinary interview.
- Make sure the individual has a minimum of 24 hours notice so that they have a chance to arrange an appropriate representative if they wish.
- Make sure another member of management can be there to take detailed notes and help conduct the interview.
- Never pre-judge the outcome of the interview before hearing the employee's perspective.
- Start the interview by stating the complaint to the employee and giving appropriate statements from people involved.
- Give the employee an opportunity to put forward their side of the story and call any supporting witnesses.
- You can also call witnesses, but they can only be in the room for the relevant part of the interview - not the duration.
- Make use of adjournments: always take a break to consider and obtain any extra information you need before reaching your decision. You can also use if things become heated or people are upset during the interview.
- Deliver the decision (and give reasons, taking into account any mitigating circumstances), confirm review periods and ensure you give details of how to appeal.
- Confirm the decision in writing.
- It is important that everyone involved in disciplinary action understand the important of following the correct procedure, as even if the case against an employee seems proven, they can still be deemed to have been treated unfairly if the correct procedures are not followed.
Potential outcomes
It is possible that after any stage no warning will be given to the individual. It may be decided, for example, that they were unclear about what was expected from them and that they agree to try to resolve the issue via additional support or counselling.
Alternatively, the decision could be to give the employee a warning. An organisation's policy should outline exactly what warnings will be given, but the following are likely:
- recorded oral warning
- first written warning
- final written warning
- possible dismissal.
Any warning should also specify a review period during which the individual receives appropriate support and their performance can be monitored.
Disciplinary warnings should normally have a specified 'life' after which they are disregarded when considering any subsequent warnings. Typical timescales for the types of warning are:
- recorded oral warning - 6 months
- first written warning - 1 year
- final written warning - 2 years.
Dismissal
There are five permitted reasons for dismissal:
- misconduct
- incapability
- breach of statutory regulations
- redundancy
- some other substantial reason.
#35
thanks BDW - I think I've pretty much got it covered now. x returns to work, x is asked into a meeting. at the meeting the matters of concern are raised. x is then given a letter telling them they are suspended and they must attend a disciplinary meeting the following day. Letter also contains relevant clauses from staff handbook and documents that are to be used in evidence at the hearing. Meeting is held; heads are nodded, heads are shook. x is asked to step outside for one minute and then we shoot him , no I mean then we "discuss" the findings. x is asked back in and told that x has been found to have committed gross misconduct under a particular clause within the handbook. x is told that his employment is therefore terminated and he has he right of appeal to A N Other person.
Sorted.
Not that I would like to predetermine the outcome, of course.
Sorted.
Not that I would like to predetermine the outcome, of course.
#36
I presume you must have rules in place for booking holidays? (4 weeks notice or something) I also presume you will have a employee T+Cs handbook or similar that will notify employees of their part of the contract e.g. that leaving the place of employment without permission is a disciplinary offence (in some companies gross misconduct in itself)?
No matter what you have to follow processes to the letter. On his return to work, do you carry out some sort of 'return to work interview'? During this you can discuss the reasons why he/she left without permission and the consequences of his/her actions.....so thats one disciplinary done (verbal) .
Then you investigate the matter of his conduct at work.....(it is legal to dismiss somebody if their conduct does come into question even if it isnt an instant dismissal offence). Make sure you get signed statements from all the parties involved (witnesses etc that heard or saw his poor conduct)
Job really should be a good 'un as long as you dont just ring him up and say "dont bother coming back" , done that myself once and you find you can never get rid of that person and they remind you everyday.
No matter what you have to follow processes to the letter. On his return to work, do you carry out some sort of 'return to work interview'? During this you can discuss the reasons why he/she left without permission and the consequences of his/her actions.....so thats one disciplinary done (verbal) .
Then you investigate the matter of his conduct at work.....(it is legal to dismiss somebody if their conduct does come into question even if it isnt an instant dismissal offence). Make sure you get signed statements from all the parties involved (witnesses etc that heard or saw his poor conduct)
Job really should be a good 'un as long as you dont just ring him up and say "dont bother coming back" , done that myself once and you find you can never get rid of that person and they remind you everyday.
#38
Originally Posted by falkster
Job really should be a good 'un as long as you dont just ring him up and say "dont bother coming back" , done that myself once and you find you can never get rid of that person and they remind you everyday.
#39
All laws side with the employee unfortunately, speaking from a small business point of view its yet another noose around our neck, as if its not hard enough to stay in business in this day and age anyway!!
My sympathies - most people are honest and do a honest days work, other people see work as something from 9 - 5 and couldnt give a ratfcuk about the business they work for...lets hope we dont get too many of these people.
My sympathies - most people are honest and do a honest days work, other people see work as something from 9 - 5 and couldnt give a ratfcuk about the business they work for...lets hope we dont get too many of these people.
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