Edcase

Good guesses!

EA pulled a masterstroke buying middleware vendor criterion/renderware.

messiah

just my 2p worth, but I'm not a fan of EA games, they just have that mass-produced garbage feel (not counting SSX though), they don't seem to have the personal touch that games like Metal Gear Solid possess.

I see the Unreal Engine3 is also now available to anyone who wants it.

DanPhillips

Hi Ed,

Fraid you're not quite correct.
I wouldn't like to say which were "real".

I am looking forward to playing some of them, but the logistics of creating games for them is looking like a quantum leap from previous platforms.

The Potential is enourmous and you won't believe some of the stuff that it's possible to do with a PS3 and a camera

Cheers

Dan

Edcase

Hello mate,

What's your source? PM me if you want, I have the info on *very* good authority

messiah

I'm pretty sure Killzone 2 was CG (but technically, the ducks are too). But looking at the stills from the movie on various sites, I don't think the graphics are beyond the capabilities of the next-gen machines.

My first thought was that the scene was the pre-rendered opening movie, mainly due to the "Sony Computer Entertainment Presents" blurb that appears at the start.

Sony went for a "Shock & Awe" tactic and they certainly got it, whether they can back it up remains to be seen.

DanPhillips

First generation of games for any new console are normally just like the tail
end of the previous generation but with more poly's and higher res textures.
With this jump I expect to see a few more tricks...but the problem is that having "super" realistic models and textures/materials means having a stack load more artists or excellent tools.

Looking at the numbers just for polys...

Typical scene for Ps1 running at 60fps would have been 2 maybe 3,000 polys.
Ps2 you're up to 20,000 for a good engine with Ps3 I would guess 400,000 for first gen and all of those polys have to be made!

I think we'll see a step away from vast extensive outdoor scenes, like GTA/Getaway and move more to having single buildings which are intricatly modeled and you can destroy down to paint being scraped off the skirting boards.


Cheers

Dan

SirFozzalot

Don't you watch the movies? They NEVER reveal their source!

.....or have I been watching too many movies!

Edcase

they are all basically 'artists impressions'

although the final products will no doubt be impressive, the current code and assets for those titles will still be likely pre-alpha, given that we will be waiting until at least spring for PS3 (presuming KZ2 and motorstorm are launch titles, which is unlikely), there is simply no way they could get the actual game to perform like that in realtime. You cannot even imagine the complexity of physics, AI, collision detection, pathfinding etc. for that KZ2 scene to be non-scripted in-game action!

My feeling is that we will see this level of detail from the next gen, but not until 3rd gen titles when people are able to extract the best from the hardware (performance analyser etc.)

Dan am I correct in saying neither platforms have specific physics processors like some of the new PC chips? Is it done on the Cell?

messiah

Are polygon counts that improtant now? I thought these new machines were going the NURBS route of modelling.

Forgive me if it's a daft question, only I've done some modelling before - but architectural, not game related.

KiwiGTI

Do you look like the comic book guy from the Simpsons too?

messiah

I re-read the post using his voice. PMSL.

Edcase

If you believe john carmack of id fame, we will eventually switch to voxels, with sub-pixel level shading and collision detection.

DanPhillips

You are correct neither have dedicated processors, the PS3 might just edge the usability of having one/two of the SPE's just doing Physics/Any dedicated task because they effectively have their own cache the 360 might struggle to really get the different processors to do anything "data" intensive simply because they share the same cache...fun trying it out though

Cheers

Dan

Edcase

Cheeky bugger LOL

There's a pic of me half way down this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3727044.stm

DanPhillips

The problem with NURBS is that they really aren't that good for having hard edges/detail. Building a lovely sports car with Nurbs isn't much of an issue (untill you get to the creases in the big open panels) but try modelling a building and you end up with something that has to be modeled in more detial than normal polys just to get the edges in there.

Curved surface have their uses...but I reckon more for characters and then you get into the whole procedurally creating the surfaces but having to render it multiple times to get it looking like skin...and for each of those passes the whole procedural bit can hurt.

Mind you with ?? shaders it might only need one pass then your're left with the physics of skin/flesh to do...

Cheers

Dan

messiah

I remember Voxels, they never really took off though did they.

One of my favourite PC games - Outcast - used a Voxel engine, graphics were great even on a relaltively modest spec machine. Am I right in thinking that voxels are all generated by the CPU so the graphics card doesn't need to be a monster to get good effects?

Edcase

Yeah Outcast was great, this article was much more recent than that tho I will try and dig it out, made interesting reading.

messiah

Think I might dig it out again later There was supposed to be a sequel on the PS2 but it got binned...

Fuchsrohre

I'm hoping the lighting models will offer that bit more realism this time around. Good lighting can make a lot of difference it would appear.

Improved physics will be nice. After playing about with Half-Life 2, they kind of became the highlight of the game for me.

I'm hoping the ey candy takes a back seat so the other components like ai, physics, logic, framerate, etc... can be balanced properly. If its at the expense of graphic detail - so be it.