Type 25 Spec C WR Ltd
03 June 2005, 09:40 AM
#32
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Mog, Thats got to be one of the best Impreza's Ive ever seen, with the power to match. Love the interiour.
If you don't don't mind me asking what would be the ballpark figure you have spent on the car so far?
If you don't don't mind me asking what would be the ballpark figure you have spent on the car so far?
03 June 2005, 05:34 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by C2forWRX
where are the pics it aint displaying
03 June 2005, 05:38 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by XRS
They're the same ones as I posted on the last page, and Mog repeated about 5 posts ago.
Regards
Mog
03 June 2005, 10:23 PM
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Excuse my ignorance, but isn't a Type 25 a 2.5ltr engine and if so why is it producing less power than a mildly tuned Evo VIII ?
I am impressed with the torque though
must really push you back in your seat
I am impressed with the torque though
must really push you back in your seat
04 June 2005, 03:02 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by john coffey
Excuse my ignorance, but isn't a Type 25 a 2.5ltr engine and if so why is it producing less power than a mildly tuned Evo VIII ?
I am impressed with the torque though must really push you back in your seat
I am impressed with the torque though
must really push you back in your seat The peak torque of 394lbs @ 3260rpm makes for extremely fast a to b driving.
So although for example the Mitsubishi Evo FQ400 has 405bhp it only has 355lbs @ 5000rpm meaning you have to rev the nuts off it.
Clarkson did a rolling drag race from 30mph in 4th gear with the FQ400 and a Fiat Punto 1.6 and after a 1 mile straight the evo hadn't got past the Punto.
The T25 in 6th gear will pull very hard from 30mph or 1500rpm.
Mog
04 June 2005, 05:18 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by Mog
I might be talking out of my backside but doesn't a higher bhp give you a higher top end speed which is almost useless when "70mph" is the maximuim legal speed. It is far better to have a high torque figure to give the pulling power when overtaking and the flexibility of not having to change down.
The peak torque of 394lbs @ 3260rpm makes for extremely fast a to b driving.
So although for example the Mitsubishi Evo FQ400 has 405bhp it only has 355lbs @ 5000rpm meaning you have to rev the nuts off it.
Clarkson did a rolling drag race from 30mph in 4th gear with the FQ400 and a Fiat Punto 1.6 and after a 1 mile straight the evo hadn't got past the Punto.
The T25 in 6th gear will pull very hard from 30mph or 1500rpm.
Mog
The peak torque of 394lbs @ 3260rpm makes for extremely fast a to b driving.
So although for example the Mitsubishi Evo FQ400 has 405bhp it only has 355lbs @ 5000rpm meaning you have to rev the nuts off it.
Clarkson did a rolling drag race from 30mph in 4th gear with the FQ400 and a Fiat Punto 1.6 and after a 1 mile straight the evo hadn't got past the Punto.
The T25 in 6th gear will pull very hard from 30mph or 1500rpm.
Mog
I'm not very technical mate, all I was confused about was that I would have thought that your 2.5 ltr engine would have given you slightly more bhp.
For instance this Evo VIII MR340 on standard internals has only had a stage 1 tune and has produced 388bhp / 400lb ft
http://www.lancerregister.com/showth...k&pagenumber=4
I remember watching the Top gear test with the FQ400
made me laugh at the turbo lag.Cheers
04 June 2005, 08:51 PM
#46
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I must admit I'm pretty confused about the bhp and dyno stuff. Mog's car makes 214 bhp 'power at the wheels' while mine (also 2.5, but Forester not T25, so different turbo and other stuff) makes 197 (both on the new Powerstation rollers). So far so good, but then over on NASIOC people are always talking about 400 'whp' for an STi with mild tuning, and over there it seems the difference between 'wheel horsepower' and 'crank horsepower' is accounted for by about 15%. On both ours it seems to be more like 37-38% of the total engine power is given as the 'drag', leaving a 'whp' of around 200 which is paltry by NASIOC standards.
Are Merkin horsepower smaller ? Or am I misunderstanding the whole dyno thing - their dynos tend to be different types to ours.
Regarding torque, it is what makes the wheels go round. More is better, but it looks like Mog's car is tuned to favour a wide torque spread rather than 'headline' numbers, and is all the better for it.
Are Merkin horsepower smaller ? Or am I misunderstanding the whole dyno thing - their dynos tend to be different types to ours.
Regarding torque, it is what makes the wheels go round. More is better
, but it looks like Mog's car is tuned to favour a wide torque spread rather than 'headline' numbers, and is all the better for it.
05 June 2005, 03:35 PM
#47
First off... peak BHP figures do not relate to how the car actually drives on the road in real world conditions. How the power is delivered is the most important factor, which then takes in to account spool up, torque and the band at which torque is held. People seem to get too hung up on peak BHP figures (unless this is concerning a specific purpose, say a ***** out car).
The bigger the engine capacity the better the spread of torque in theory, but with bigger capacitys you can sacrifice the rev capacity. At the end of the day the T25 is a jack of all trades. If you wanted a ***** out big hp monster you would probably go a different route, but then you may sacrifice driveability. Please remember the T25 seems to be aimed at a production car quality of ride and driveability.
So many different factors can alter the drag run down on rollers (and hence altering the flywheel figure), in the same way different factors can also alter the PAW's figure. At the end of the day these are only indicatory figures and how the car actually performs on the road is equally if not more important.
One of the biggest ways that can affect figures on rollers are the contact area with each tyre, which can be down to slight (and I mean slight) changes in wheelbase settings on the rollers which can be adjusted and also slip when running.
To reach a true level of 400bhp at the wheels on a scooby, would require somewhat more than mild tuning as based on average 4x4 transmission loss would require in the region of 480-500bhp at the flywheel...... certainly not achievable on a scooby in a mild state of tune.
At the end of the day RR figures (or any other power derived figures) are only useful for comparison under similar running conditions. In my opinion they are only figures on bits of paper, and don't mean much taken in isolation.
Regards,
Shaun.
The bigger the engine capacity the better the spread of torque in theory, but with bigger capacitys you can sacrifice the rev capacity. At the end of the day the T25 is a jack of all trades. If you wanted a ***** out big hp monster you would probably go a different route, but then you may sacrifice driveability. Please remember the T25 seems to be aimed at a production car quality of ride and driveability.
So many different factors can alter the drag run down on rollers (and hence altering the flywheel figure), in the same way different factors can also alter the PAW's figure. At the end of the day these are only indicatory figures and how the car actually performs on the road is equally if not more important.
One of the biggest ways that can affect figures on rollers are the contact area with each tyre, which can be down to slight (and I mean slight) changes in wheelbase settings on the rollers which can be adjusted and also slip when running.
To reach a true level of 400bhp at the wheels on a scooby, would require somewhat more than mild tuning as based on average 4x4 transmission loss would require in the region of 480-500bhp at the flywheel...... certainly not achievable on a scooby in a mild state of tune.
At the end of the day RR figures (or any other power derived figures) are only useful for comparison under similar running conditions. In my opinion they are only figures on bits of paper, and don't mean much taken in isolation.
Regards,
Shaun.
05 June 2005, 10:12 PM
#49
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Thanks Shaun, I guess you've clarified why the 'type' of power rather than the amount of power is so important.
And yes - the 400 whp comes from the power-bragging sorts of discussion on NASIOC.
And yes - the 400 whp comes from the power-bragging sorts of discussion on NASIOC.
14 September 2005, 04:18 PM
#51
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I have to agree with the guys above.
car its self looks the dogs with the front splitters on and the leather but i hate those jap fast and furious rear spoilers they just look naff, standard sti 8 one looks much better
Sy
car its self looks the dogs with the front splitters on and the leather but i hate those jap fast and furious rear spoilers they just look naff, standard sti 8 one looks much better
Sy
14 September 2005, 07:00 PM
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17 September 2005, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 16vmarc
Spec C? Wheres the rear wiper? 
far too heavy them rear wipers, electric windows, central locking and stereos......