Chip

Which one?

Chip

TurboMav

Don't u think we get taxed enough on fuel already?

Petem95

One things for sure - the average tax collected per driver under the pay-as-you-go scheme will be HIGHER than the average amount collect per driver now.

So basically ANOTHER Labour tax increase

How about simply limiting the number of people coming into the country? That would cut congestion, as well as housing demand, and reduce pressure on struggling public services?

Clarebabes

So, instead of fighting with each other, how are we going to fight this? My partner said that he would just go to Germany and buy a car there to use over here. I pointed out that they will probably introduce the system at some point too as well as in the rest of the EU, but I can't see a country such as France being able to bring it in - the French public would demonstrate and bring the country to its knees.

Perhaps we ought to be more like the French - something I never thought I would say!

Chip

Yes, but whats the difference. You have to put fuel in the car for it to run. You dont have to put a tax disc on the window for it to run.

Paying per mile via a black box will cost the country billions to run and set up and is very open to being abused wheras everyone has to put fuel in the car. So therefore the more miles you do the more you pay.



Chip

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I cant wait, I will become a resistance leader by ripping the tracking device from my car, I will then be chased by hovering enforcement vehicles which shoot lasers at me, they will send a robot from the future to kill me, coool.

Will they fit the things to push bikes ?

Chip

What a very good idea that would be. We'd at least then look after our own interests instead of everyone else's

Chip

pslewis

I agree with Chip ....... add tax to fuel and remove the Car Tax Disc.

Get Insurance companies to issue a disc for the car, the MOT is now being put on a Database so a car without one will get an automatic fine like the Car Tax fine.

Pete

ricardo

But that's much too simple. The infrastructure to collect the money via fuel duty is already in place, so there would be no need for an enormous IT contract to be given to the cronies. Its much too fair as well, everyone would need to pay to travel, more so for those with the poorest fuel consumption.

No, what it needs is a scheme that would cost absolutely huge amounts, funded by everyone having to pay for a new gizmo (except those that don't live within the law of course). This scheme needs to be untried and free to go massively over-budget as the actual implementation costs spiral out of control. It needs a whole raft of complicated exemptions and special cases to burden the business world with paperwork.

Get real Pete !

Chip

The insurance windscreen disc is a good idea as has been proven in France and some other European countries for many years.

Chip

logiclee

It all depends on how it is charged.

I may do 60 miles at 5am to work in a small TDi.

I cause a lot less congestion and less polution than a School run mum doing 2 miles at rush hour in a Range Rover/Discovery.

So who pays more?

Lee

Chip

A lot of car use is just down to bloody laziness. I usually walk to my local supermarket and always see people who live closer than me driving there in their cars. People just dont seem to want to make an effort to do anything these days. Just look at the school runs. Why not walk the kids to school. We used to, and the school was over a mile away. Does the kids good as well.
A lazy society is what we live in so people will just accept these charges and carry on as normal because they just couldnt be bothered to do bugger all about it.

Chip

Hanslow

Is it just me or can anyone else see that it'll mean quite clear motorways and clogged backroads as everyone heads for the cheaper routes?

I can see this hitting small business hard as we live in a world where people are prepared to commute further to their place of work. Employees may well be forced into moving job/house purely down to the travel costs and lack of a decent affordable alternative. Either that or they'll just quit work and sponge off the state

CrisPDuk

Hang on a minute, Car drivers already pay as much per annum as the government 're-invests' in the road infrastructure every FIVE years and that's just in window rent. I bet when you count the fuel duty contribution too the figure becomes closer to fifteen years

So never mind all this 'drop the tax disc and add a bit more onto fuel duty' bo!!ocks, what we should be doing is dropping the tax disc, lowering fuel duty across the board, and making ******* BUS COMPANIES PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE

TurboMav

well said.

the government are quick enough in taking our hard earned. different story with regards to re-investing it to improve matters. They have no problem is squandering it though

unclebuck

It's a bit late to start debating this now. It's coming and there's not a damn thing you or I can do to stop it. The last chance for that came and went on May 6th this year.

Welcome to the Third Term.

SiDHEaD

Jesus that would be over £80 a feckin day for me!

Edit: i've now read it properly. If i dont use the m5 and go the rural routes, it might not be too expensive for me, IF fuel duty was indeed removed.

Hope they don't wanna use it for speed fines too

BedHog

I hope the GPS tracking technology is like my Road angel - that bloody thing doesn't manage to pick up the required 3 satellites half the time (and no it isn't obstructed )

A lot of these ideas never see the light of day, but I'm sure some of this will in a diluted form. I suppose the best thing to do is have some fun while you can and not worry about it.

Anyone know if this will also apply to bikes?

boomer

Spot on ricardo!

And don't forget, Ali Daaaaaarliiiiiing (Mr. I don't dye my eyebrows) will be basing any GPS tracking system on the existing one OWNED, RUN and EXCLUSIVELY CONTROLLED by the US, or maybe by the new European one - WHICH DOESN'T EVEN EXIST YET!!!!!

"...free to go massively over-budget" is just the start of it

mb

unclebuck

They want to ban bikes completely, as they do all classic or just 'old' vehicles.

It will also be illegal to carry out any servicing or maintenance on your own car. All work *must* be carried out only by authorised dealers (who of course will be free to set the charges for such work).

Clarebabes

Do you walk back from the supermarket with a weekly shop? If so, can I borrow you on Thursday afternoons when I do mine.... I couldn't imagine walking with 5 bags plus big pack of loo roll etc!

OK, so as quite a few Mums work, how are they then supposed to get there after dropping little Johnny off to school? My daughter's school is 2 miles away. We have never walked, but we sometimes cycle, but due to a main road section not having a path on the way there, I sometimes think it is quite dangerous. She is only 6 years old after all.

I only do this on days that I do not work which recently has only been 1 day a week. The school actually complained because they don't have the room to store childrens' bikes!! I said that it should be actively encouraged as we were reducing congestion in the car park etc. So I won that battle.

In the summer, I will probably cycle more. I will be charged a bit more than some because where I work is in the town centre. I guess they will try and get me to use public transport, but it's the fact that we would have to get a bus to school, then walk half a mile, drop child off, walk another half mile to another bus stop, get bus. I reckon the whole journey would take twice as long as it does now by car.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Actually I'm not that optimistic - but it does really annoy me when people who are clearly articulate, well informed and have a genuine grievance appear to give up without a fight, before these measures we're all worried about have been set in stone.

If anything is certain, it's that by rolling over and failing to do anything at all, we do indeed guarantee that the worst will happen. If we stand up for ourselves and make some noise, then they have to listen - but if we just idly moan amongst ourselves about all the bad things that 'will' happen, then we really have no right to complain when they do.

That's why the last time the subject cropped up, I offered sample letters to anyone who was interested in contacting their MP to help actually make a difference. I had a great response, and now that many of us have a new MP, it's worth writing again.

It may be futile, but at least if the worst happens I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I at least did something to oppose it. In view of the seriousness of the issue, it still annoys and disappoints me in equal measure that more people don't make the effort to get their voices heard.

I may not be all that optimistic, but I'm damned if I'm going to let my pessimism make me give up all hope.

mart360

What scares me is that phase 2 will then be launched..

phase 2

"As each vehicle will be connected to the sattelite for monitoring purposes, it enables real time safty partnerships to take place, the result being that each time the motorist goes over the proscribed speed limit for the road they are on, instant monitoring will occur. Should a motorist break the posted limit, a flag will be raised on the system, and a fixed penalty notice issued"

"On ssseing that 4 fixed penalty flags have been raised a gainst a vehicle, the system will issue a shutdown of the vehicles ECU and the motorist will be banned from driving immidiatley. a summons will also be issued at this point"

so there you have it 90% of all cars will be off the road within the first day!

oh forgot to add.

Exceptions to the charging rule

"due to certain reasons of a security nature certain individuals or groups will be exempt from the toll charging system"

"initially the exemptions will apply to members of parliament, (security issues, we cant have there whereabouts known to anyone) Police oficers on duty.

other areas may be considered, however there anre no further plans to give exemptions to anybody other than the above.


So in a nutshell

road tax abbolished... cos there gonna screw you into the fecking wall

av motorist on 12,000 pa @ 02 per mile £2400!

duty on petrol abolished cos you gonna get double shafted
cos the oil companys will ramp the price of fuel (being greedy sorry merchants of some honour)

av motorist on 12,000 pa @ "3600


so the final years tally will be £6000 in taxes on top of you other stealth taxes!!!

as well as being banned within a week if your lucky!!!!

Nl screw the public, were allright jack!!!!

all i want to do when i see that grinning tw*t is wipe the smile of his face...


its so blatently obvious that its a case of "well if i cant be remebered for doing somthing good, i.ll really fe*k em over, then they,ll remeber me.

and the sheep of our country cant see that GRRR


the next election will be the time the motorists revolt.

motorists have had enough of being butt fu*ked by billy and his grinning boatrace

M

Tiggs

lol...you lot are like a Fox Mulder Oliver Stone love child born in Halfords!

Chip

You can borrow me on Thursdays if you like, but not for the shopping though

No I dont do a weekly shop at the s/market. I do most of my shopping at local butchers, bakers,grocers and farm shops as I like to support locals rather than the big boys. Quality is better as well as the prices. Try it sometime yourself and see.


A lot of Mums dont work as well but still take their kids to school in cars purely out of laziness.Maybe theyll be late for coffee morning if they dont


Chip

Chip

A system that does this is already fitted in all 6000 of AssetCo's vehicles.
I got pulled for doing 90mph down Telegraph hill in Devon twice in a week.


Chip

unclebuck

LOL - The fact of road charging is now *headline news* on the BBC and yet there are still one or two who won't accept that it is going to happen.

Tiggs

road charging is great...more the better as far as im concerned....but there are some "fears" on hear far beyond that.

Vegescoob

Hitler and Stalin are really fuming somewhere.
They would have loved these and the coming technologies.
And the population will pay for it's enslavement to the State.
But of course, in the UK we are not citizens but subjects.
To be subjugated apparently.