warrenm2

Try the Real Alternative at http://home.hccnet.nl/h.edskes/finalbuilds.htm (about 1/3 down the page)

Winston_Churchill

Frankly, who cares if Muslims are offended or not.

Why do we need their permission anyway?

moses

well said bud

and one more thing anyone remember when the pc brigade banned baa baa black sheep and said it may offend the blacks, which was crap anyway coz they came out angry and shouting ,coz the pc brigades use minorities as an excuse to get their way

moses

very good indeed leslie and appartion true, i wish leslie was oor prime minister this country would be getting somewhere and archibishop rowan williams as his deputy , we would rock

OllyK

Try reading it, if it had been written at the same time that DH Lawrence wrote Lady Chatterly's Lover, it would quite possibly have been banned as well. Plently of murder, sex, incest, assaults, muder etc etc in the OT

Apparition

OllyK has it in one....its a story book ~ Palin and simple. Whats all the fuss about ?

645

realalternative is good and won't stuff up your system. if you listen to the interview it's far more enlightening than any newpaper or web report. But I guess you won't, cos that would spoil your argument.

gsm1

I'll do that later on another PC. If this interview is so enlightening why doesn't anyone quote from it? You going on about how enlightening it is means squat. Or could it be that there is no substance in it and that simply referring to it is the best you can do.

I didn't start this thread. The main thrust of it was that bibles were going to be removed from hospitals because they were considered offensive to other religions. The usual spiel followed by some posters. I did more than most posters on this thread. I checked out the Telegraph (which wasn't quoted) and other sources.

I'm not saying that MRSA is genuinely the reason for this but that was the official reason given. It may be a small part of many reasons or a quick cover for another. It could be that no one bothers reading bibles in hospitals and they just can't be bothered with them and this might have been discussed along with many other restructuring measures. One thing for sure is that no one has been quoted (that I've seen) saying bibles are offensive to other religions.

645

I think I agree with you gsm1 in most respects, but I still think it's worth you listening to the interview.

bigJoe

If they kept their hospital clean in the first place then this wouldn’t be an issue,

That’s what concerns me here – has the hospital given up trying to keep on top of MRSA and is just looking for scapegoats now?????

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Nobody reads the hospital bibles, be they religious or not. If people are so religious, they'd have a bible on them anyway, or it would accompany the 1st visitors flowers / grapes etc.

Anyway its a good thing getting rid of the bibles, if anyone's going to save you, its the doctors, not some fairytale

Neil Smalley

How can something people have never read be offensive to people?
P.s this goes for all books, not just 'religious' ones..

roryscoob

iTrader: (1)

i thought integrate meant (blend combine merge ) ? i might be wrong but i don`t see much integration . More like there own little countries inside of ours . I for one could name a few estates in Sheffield where i could not walk because of my colour without fear of being racially abused . Integration bo**ocks more like segregation !

drb5

iTrader: (4)

I can't say much and i don't know for 100% sure, that everything written is correct, but "The Da Vinci Code" opened my eys a little.

OllyK

It does...
Me either (for the most part) hence my suggestion that more effort is required in this area by all parties.
Yes, there is segregation, we need to turn that in to integration.

OllyK

You do know that is a work of fiction don't you?

roryscoob

iTrader: (1)

Do you honestly think there is any chance of that happening ? I think not mate .
Most of these people hate us ! Integration is not happening and never will ! The simple fact is we are overun because our government are idiots . Lets face it they come from all over the world travelling through plenty of countries they could stay at to get to Britain for the benefits system and the nhs ! We are a soft touch

Dracoro

Just like the bible then.

dij

I cant understand how people can get offended by the bible (or any other religious book),if you dont want to read it then dont,if you dont want to beleive in it then dont,but dont take the p1ss and call it fairy tales etc,that is offensive.

It worries me that a few generations down the line and people wont beleive in god at all....if there is no after life then you may as well die now...you will reach your goal much quicker...turn into worm food today...why is killing people wrong?.....how do you determine what is right or wrong?...

The NHS should just clean/disinfect everything more thoroughly..inluding the Bibles.

BTW i am not a christian

drb5

iTrader: (4)

See that's just it! Where does the fact and fiction end with the said book?! It states at the beginning that the Priory of Sion and Opus Dei are BOTH REAL. If this is true, then WHY are they true if nothing is to hide and the Bible is 100% FACT. I'm not saying one or the other is the one true truth, but it makes you think. The Da Vinci Code certainly put's things in a more believable matter for me, rather than some of the "magical" things the Bible tells.

Dracoro

It's 'true' in the context of the book. i.e. read the book with the assumption that the statement is true in context of the book.

However, we all know what he is alluding too and makes many interesting statements. However there are a lot of inconsistencies but that's the literary freedom you have when writing a fiction book

drb5

iTrader: (4)

Can't agree more. Makes the whole thing(Bible and history), a whole lot more interesting though. A bit of an arguement, than this is the be all and end all.

mightyyid

Ollyk - some good points and fair enough. But, to reiterate a few items you perhaps missed:

- CofE - I said 'maybe there isn't, but the closest perhaps...' by virtue of the fact there are a lot more people in England than Scotland. But understand your point, although I was simply offering a potential answer.

- 'Dangerous ground, plenty of legal British people that have non Christian beliefs, myself included' - no problem with that at all, BUT my point was that if you have different views, great. But if you start to try to impose those views upon me, then I have a major problem. I'm not religious, but I have yet to have someone come to the door to preach CofE, but plenty of JW.

- 'Are you on religion or culture or ethnic background here - you seem to be freely interchanging between them. Culturally we need less keeping it to themselves and need to try and make more of an effort to integrate those that have immigrated to this country in the last few generations. Encourage them to become British rather than trying to create little enclaves within Britain that are like their country of original origin.'
Bottom line to me is it's almost the same. Why the heck should we, as people who are English, have to adopt to the ways of those people who come to live here? Others make the point of areas (Sheffield etc) where a white English person could be hung out to dry for stepping on 'their patch'. Nope, sorry, but this is England, and this is where English people live. This country has something quite a few other countries do not have - a rich and strong culture, which is slowly being eroded away as the EU gets bigger, and those nationalaities who wish to get a job paying more come to the UK for that reason. And then we seem to get segregation and disfunctionality.

I have lived in both the US and Australia, and while I will always be English, I adopted to their way of life. I'm on their turf if you will. That's what people in the UK should do IMO. This country is going downhill and while there are many reasons, cultural diversity has not always helped...

But I repsect your views and appreciate that everyone will think differently. Fine, but as more people express these views, expecting others with to hear it, so problems will continue.

It's like that great saying. 'Everyone has the right to express their opinion, but it is their assumption that I should wish to hear their opinion that is wrong'

OllyK

While people have that attitude, no it won't. I just said that we need to make more of an effort.

Not sure what any of that has to do with bibles in hospitals but I hope you feel better after your little rant

OllyK

Well there you go, and I think that when man can finally shake of the shackles of religion it will be a great day for man kind. We can start living for us rather than spending an inordinate amount of time worshiping something that to all intents and purposes does not exist, even if you believe it does.

That's a weak argument

Gee I don't know, I'm an atheist so that means I have no morals at all You don't need a divine being to tell you what is right and wrong, society can work it out for itself.

OllyK

I'll help you out here, it's ALL fiction.

drb5

iTrader: (4)

Really? What about all the "secrets" Da Vinci put in his paintings n stuff?

Not argueing, just genuinely interested.

Leslie

It is true that this is now a secular nation. Its a shame in many ways because the time when Christianity became virtually abandoned was when our present troubles started with violent crime and rape etc. becoming an accepted way of life!

I know which I would prefer, even if I did not follow a particular religion.

Les

OllyK

Would those be the something and nothings that people imagine and force fit to suit what they want to believe? Have a read on pareidolia

OllyK

Come now Les, I think you are over simplifying things a bit there, I'm not so keen to bring back the good old Christian days with the Spanish Inquisition and burning heretics and witches at the stake. The times when Christianity really did have a major influence in peoples' lives was hardly a pic-nick either. Even the upper echelons of the church are not immune to the corrupting influence of power!

I agree moral standards have taken a nose dive in recent times, but that's in the absence of any kind of moral guidance, whether that be within a religious infrastructure or not. I'm not a big believe in scaring people in to doing the right thing, much better if they can see the positive benefits to themselves and society as a whole rather than doing it through fear of eternal damnation - but again that's my personal take.