AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

What it's going to do, is use a speed signal from your ECU (together with, perhaps, a built-in accelerometer to detect lateral motion) to continue to keep an accurate lock, given that it already has a map showing exactly where the road goes. In truth, once it knows where you are once, all it needs to know is how fast you're going and which way you go at junctions, in order to pinpoint your exact location on the map at all times. The GPS feature is useful, but not in fact necessary at all.

That's not conjecture or unproven technology; the Leeds University ISA page describes it already. Upmarket sat nav systems use such methods too, and I believe even the new TomTom GO units use assisted GPS to overcome the problem of patchy signal coverage.

You're right that road fatalities would go through the roof, though. The police have a name for motorists who drive along motorways with their brains switched off through tiredness or boredom: 'cruise missiles'.

Freak

approaching the wrong side of 50k....... 50% at night at silly o clock in the morning on motorways....

yep im going to get screwed...... but then again, by the time this comes into place i will probably be living abroad anyway


dont blame me- i didnt vote for these fckers

oh and:

The govt tackled this already didnt they?
All criminals can no longer obtain plates easily without fcking about getting id etc.....oh wait....no thats normal law abiding people......

jasey

Don't forget this "System" would probaly cost £874,984,938,983,923,938 (Or enough to Invade Eye-Rack 10 times over). That'll have to be paid for too.


Horse all road taxes on Petrol - the more you use the more you pay - Simple.

OllyK

I'm sure you would need to keep cross checking with the GPS quite frequently, the speedo output is not that acurate, a few hour trip down the motorway with a 5mph discrepancy and you could be coming off at the wrong junction and heading cross country!

EddScott

The tracking system will end up a complete mess. The government will award the contract to making the things to the company that lies about how much each device will cost. The devices and the infrastructure will come in way over budget. The total cost per driver will be completely over the top. The government will them find other ways to make up the cost.

Imagine driving past Tesco (the UKs official sponsor) and your car stereo informs you of Tesco deal of the day. You drive past a Shell garage and the car stereo tells you your car is only 1/4 full and you should fill up with Optimax.

You'd never buy a security tracking device or Sat Nav that gave out your whereabouts to a supermarket to advertise there products. On the other hand, a government imposed device you wouldn't have a choice.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

You see my point, though - continuous GPS coverage is not necessary for the system to work. Provided it can identify which at which junctions you're turning, that's good enough. It can, of course, also automatically calibrate your speedo output against the GPS signal all the time it has both - so your speedo signal need not be accurate in absolute terms, only reasonably consistent over time.

The ability for such a system to work in technical terms isn't the issue here.

OllyK

Shame - guess it is going to need to have an accident while behind a panel being patch welded rather than just accidently leaving some shielding material over the GPS areil

Vegescoob

Something that I find scary in all this and all the ID stuff is that we seem to be moving towards an unholy alliance of Left and Right.
The Left gets it's goal of control and monitoring of the population.
The Right (Capital) gets lots of contracts and presumably profits, paid for by the ones being monitored.
It's a nightmarish future where there will no difference between Political Parties because if these things get off the ground they will stay because of vested interests.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I think you're overestimating the number of people who will profit. A black box in every car might be a telematics project on a huge scale, but that doesn't mean it'll take a lot of people to implement it. 50 million units or so would never be built here, they'd be subcontracted to a high volume factory in the Far East. The components used would be mostly of American design and, again, manufactured in the Far East too.

Only the company that owns the design would profit - the country as a whole would just see something like a billion quid heading to foreign subcontract electronics manufacturers. The only other potential profit would be in their installation and maintenance - so, time to open an MOT station and/or vehicle electrics business then.

Vegescoob

Still profits, further reliance on the USA to further cement our "alliance".
Look at the size of the "security" industry which in my lifetime has grown from nothing to one where most of us are spending directly or indirectly on "security".
All because the institutions of the State are pretty useless at their tasks.
You see, I just do not understand how people seem so ready to surrender their freedom to the State.
The people should be the State, not the Political "elite" but we are moving towards the "elite" becoming the State.
But what do I know?

ChrisB

A behemoth like EDS would tender for and win the contract to run it all, completely screw it up (over budget, behind schedule and not working - all the usual public sector IT project ****-ups), so we'll be safe in the long term...

Vegescoob

Say your scenario is true.
We still end up footing the (wasted) bill.

ChrisB

Oh yes, but we already do that for the CSA, IR and pretty much every other agency. What's one more to waste cash on?

scoobydooooo

i don't like the fact that they will know your every move , and what speed you are doing . another nail in the coffin that is called our freedom !

GCollier

Yes.

It is an intrinsically fairer way to manage demand for a contested resource. Paying for both the quantity of resource and the time at which it is consumed is widely accepted for many other goods and services.

My Yes response is conditional on road charging not being used as a punitive means of tax collection. But then this aspect of it was not part of the original poll.

Gary.

Vegescoob

Ok, who gives a t@ss then?
More and more tax, much of it wasted.
So the future?
Downhill, as the Far Eastern countries become the new economically successful countries.
European countries the new "controlled economies".
But hey, I'm sure we'll all be very happy.
Do as you're told and it'll be fine.

scoobynutta555

if they have detailed maps of a given journey and the speeds of the car then they will be able to work out if you broke a certain speed limit. 2 weeks later and youll have a nip through the post by some big number crunching computer somewhere. no need for cameras on the road and such. pretty much against this, big brother britain

IPKIS

Is this road charging just for cars and vans/trucks????

if so who cares i ride a bike

and they haven't been mentioned so far.
fingers crossed

unclebuck

That's because bikes will be banned altogether.

IPKIS

ok i'm off to petrol bomb n.o 10 who's with me??

boomer

UB,

the poll is flawed (just like daaaaaarlings justifications).

Ignoring the scarey "yes" button, putting it on petrol is what happens at the moment - but the dosh doesn't got back to transport. Leave it means that the excess still goes to Gordy and "never allow" is a certainty (outside lentil munchers).

I voted PTTOP, but that is assuming ALL the dosh goes on the roads - if not, then the gloves are off!!!!

mb

bzz

Sounds to me like this country is becoming a police state!! Blair is really a communist, and his cabinet are really the KGB!! Next thing you know, there will be checkpoints every few miles with someone stopping you and saying "Papers Please", wherby you'll be shot if you left them at home!! Tracking everyone's movements - sounds like a very bad idea to me, a serious infringement on personal privacy!! Makes you feel like you're being watched like a criminal. NO THANKS!!

dr_ming

These systems are already being fitted to trucks in Europe. The UK pilot scheme already in place, and due to come into full force, for non-UK registered trucks, in the next couple of years (I forget the exact date).

The GPS is backed up by an on-board accelerometer and the vehicle speed signal (which is plenty accurate enough for the application, especially when derived from the ABS system - vehicle speedos are appear less accurate than they really are because they are deliberately set to over-read by around 5% with new tyres of the specified type for the vehicle). This is further backed up by DSRC communication beacons at motorway entry/exit slips (used to handle the tolling/charging data), and at strategic places on trunk routes - these are the roads that are currently being targeted as the money-makers.

The DSRC link can be infra-red (vehicle to beacon only), but the preference is for a 2-way, 5.8GHz microwave link, as this provides the ability to check the GPS data. The OBUs currently fitted to trucks cost around €70-€100, so the incremental cost to the vehicle is small, and they can be easily retro fitted. Fortunately, ISA, which is a truly dangerous idea, requires considerably more co-operation from the vehicle OEMs.

mushkinee

"dude where's my country" springs to mind, anyone read it?

BlackadderII

I totally agree OllyK, between this and a future of "the cashless society" where ID cards, Credit Cards and chip and pin cards are going / becoming more and more prevelant in todays society.

People wont be able to fart without big brother knowing about it. I have visions of dropping my guts in the ale house one night and some traffic warden type bloke pops his head up from behind the bar charging me for "methane and its destructive effects on the enviroment tax"

BROOKS1E

NO ........ shoot the **** and the rest of this crap bunch of no nothing tos*ers and feed them to the dogs ........i dont know ANYONE thats admitted to voting for them !

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I'd love to see where the government got their BS statistics from, and shoot the person who made them up There is no way that such a minority would disapprove and such a majority would approve.

More likely bent figures and cleverly worded questions to such only one option in the answers was viable, which so happaned to be the the one they want you to choose, with aim to create a sheep effect to the stupid nation of "well if 80% think it's ok, then I'll say its ok too"

I read in the local paper they are planning to run a pilot in Birmingham. Well, we'll see how many people diapprove won't we? Me, my family, my mates, their family - I'm yet to meet somebody who'll actually go ahead with it.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Civil Liberties

To track what road someone drives on, you need to accurately track them at all times. I'm damned if someone can track exactly where I have been at any time - its worse than ID cards.

Worse than that, if you know what road & where someone is via satellite then you know what speed they are doing.

Who needs frigging expensive VSD or whatever when you know what speed your "target" has done at any time in the course of deciding what roads they have been on in order to charge them

DJ73

why didn't these labour tosser's not mention anything about this BEFORE the election ?? , some of you voted for these thick *uck's , they cause most of the problem's with the road's *ucking with traffic light's , " improving " road lay-out's etc which in turn cause's most of the gridlock ,THEY want more congestion so then they can charge you for the " pleasure " of driving , i thought the whole point of paying thru the nose to buy and maintain a car is that you don't have to relie (?) on public transport , if you want to go anywhere you just jump in the car , it's quicker , safer , etc , *ucking labour t*at's