SiPie

Were you not starting your own car valet business or something at the time though, as I remeber disagreeing with you on this one ?

Understandable to have an initial work till you drop work attitude when your livelihood depends on it though.....

But without reward... the employees soon go elsewhere

Spoon

You don't have a clue on this one mate

I hear what you are saying but you are being blinkered towards other peoples jobs............ie. if the work comes in chunks when you work up to 14 hour days, then dies off again (randomly and unpredictably I may add) and you are still required to be there for 9-5 core hours, then it's a totally different situation to what you may be used to.

This work ethic has kept me and my (admittedly small) team receiving healthy salary rises year upon year.

PS I was joking about reckoning it was ok for Kenny to surf ****

LG John

BTW, I've been without internet since april 04 and I'm pretty sure my work stats would show my productivity has gone down. Back then I used to read a thread for 10 minutes at 10:30 over a cup of tea and then blitz a report or two until lunchtime and so on - now its just boring beyond belief and its very hard to get myself to do stuff.

Furthermore, my 8 immediate workmates agree that they were all more productive in 2000-2002 during which time we had a free reign on the internet with no access restrictions/times at all, could play network games at lunch-time and could email whoever we wanted. These days you can't even change your desktop from Windows blue and Solitare has been removed from the machines.

Why is this? Because we are human and humans do NOT operate in the same way as machines - if you can't see or understand this then you need to do some research on human psychology

LG John

My mate works as an engineer at a Royal Mail APC and very often they have to sit and twiddle their thumbs or search the net. Assuming no machines needs serviced, floors need cleaned or anything greesed then they have to wait until something breaks until the boss can give them something to do. Its just a fact of their job. I'm being honest and saying my job isn't like that, I'd NEVER run out of stuff to do

I've seen times when I've been emailing back and forth with sipie about something that I know is of great interest to him (usually discussing cars) and then suddenly he goes quiet for several days. At first I thought he had died or something but rather he just had a print request came down and immediate put aside talking to me to do it - there is no harm in working that way.

Spoon

Sipie- Disagree, work is work. Personally I'd sack both of you for being Scottish so it makes no odds.

Oh and I retired at 25 so it's not what I'm used to, it's merely my morals.

Mrs WRX

Glad it all went well for you Saxo Boy. I got made redundant in May, I knew i was going (as well as other people from other departments) and the last couple of weeks before i went was brilliant, i spent all day on SN and emailing! Start a new job on Monday so i am going to be on best behaviour, no more SN in work time! I dont see the harm in sending a couple of emails in work time (as long as they are not offensive etc).

StickyMicky

[QUOTE=SiPie]Were you not starting your own car valet business or something at the time though, as I remeber disagreeing with you on this one ?

Understandable to have an initial work till you drop work attitude when your livelihood depends on it though.....

But without reward... the employees soon go elsewhere


QUOTE]

nahh i think i was still in manufacturing?

anyway
mine wont walk, they enjoy it to much and theres nothing else for them anyway

SiPie

LOL

I hear your morals if it was some 18 year old junior member of staff who is learning the ropes... I'd want him sweeping the floor just in case he missed something the first time

Would you rather have;

A) a staff member that was feckin clueless and ran around all day stressed out his head, getting hardly anywhere..but looked really busy and appeared to work his *** off..

or:

SiPie admittedly Scottish but ruthlessly efficient all the same, highly organised, ultra prepared, a great motivator, saves the company zillions due to his excellent negociation (not spelling) skills, excellent relationships with clients (lots of golf ) and is loyal to the company having been with them for over 13 years...but yet has time to flick through scoobynet during the quieter moments of his working week....cos he's so feckin good at doing his stressful job

Probably nothing unless he or she has to manually intervene in the event of a dodgy landing

Spoon

I'd go for A) because you are Scottish.

As for the pilot, I hadn't finished and was rudely interrupted by my "post Quick Reply" button. You were on the run-way at the time you needed to ask.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

We work in a similar climate, have been pulled up for internet/SN abuse, got a slap on the wrist and nothing else but not they are really strict, I only look at computer sites at work such as Tomshardware (unfortunatly that abbreviates to 'Toms Hard' on the task bar) and they can p1ss off as I do it in my own time and my contract states I should keep abreast of computer developments.

Also, join a union as they have the clout and legal knowhow to railroad most attacks from over zealous management, who get carried away trying to justify their purchase of Internet monitoring software by nailing people, a good union legal rep or solicitor will tie them in knots, not that I want to but I get the feeling that if they wanted to f*ck you over they could do it no problem without the union, I dont look at anything dodgy, the worst being checking in Google for a fact or figure to settle an argument.

We got pulled up for emails as well, they printed them all off, I got dragged in (most of the office did) and asked about an email that included a medical article I sent to a mate, basically how Masturbation avoids prostate cancer, my boss got all haughty about it saying it wasnt appropriate so I countered that it was a legitimate medical article, and that I didt have prostate cancer.....

She went as red as I have seen anyone go.

SiPie

StickyMicky

my "nip in and nip back out of the thread" attempt is a full blown sucess

Spoon

It was until you nipped back in you daft twát!

StickyMicky

its a double bluff

LG John

Call.



<remember who you're dealing with here>

Jaydee5

Probably irrelevant at this time of night


But for all those over important folk who think they know all the answers and take the moral high ground...

...I get paid for working 37 hours a week.....and I work in excess of 50 but I don't do it within the hours of 9 to 5

If I want to surf the net on SN at odd times of the day I think I have every right to do so.....and i will make that very clear to any ar$e hole at work who wants to challenge me

As i said originally...my crime is visiting a SEX SITE ..namely SN!

Scooby-Doo

Jap2Scrap

The rule where I work is that 'reasonable time' during the day can be spent on personal reading on the internet and offensive material should not be transmitted by email. How that reasonable time is established I have no idea but as long as your work is getting done or no-one complains I guess there's no real limit. I know that they've had the internet there since the days when it was only Universities and Government offices who had net access and they've thousands of employees. In all those years and with all those people they've only ever disciplined one person for inappropriate use of the electronic mail/research facilities and that was a serious 'sexual harassment by email' case, or so the head of IT in my department told me.

It bothers me sometimes that I find myself browsing Scoobynet during the day but I look around at the technicians with their feet up on benches blatantly reading the paper and decide no-one really gives a damn as long as the work is getting done.

Spoon

That's a whole different topic. If you put yourself up to be somebodys bítch then that's your first problem.

I suggest you browse out of "payback". Instead be a man and tackle the working hard for nothing issue.

Convert your Ninja typing style into personal contact and solve your work issues, I'm sure you can do it. In fact if you speak like you type you may be made MD.

Jaydee5

Convert your Ninja typing style into personal contact and solve your work issues, I'm sure you can do it. In fact if you speak like you type you may be made MD.[/QUOTE]



My *Ninja typing style* is my ***** cat mode . I have no problem with sorting my issues out with personal contact, don't worry

Jerome

I always had a "work my **** for an hour or two, then relax for 10 minutes" method of working. I normally relax by surfing. My productivity improves if I'm able to do a bit of surfing. The bad old days of being micromanaged and closely monitored should be consigned to the history books along with Victorian sweatshops.

If I found myself in a closely monitored environment, I would leave and go elsewhere. I also think I'm a valued member of staff, so SN, BBC News etc surfing shouldn't be an issue. I always meet or exceed my deadlines and delivery dates. At the risk of blowing my own trumpet, a system I produced was showcased at an industry convention this week. The company that ran the convention want to buy this product because they were so impressed by it. Numerous other organisations have expressed interest. I'm fairly sure my boss wants to keep me, despite a bit of in work hours surfing.

StickyMicky

there are people out there that would be happy to fill your shoes, i dont think anybody who is employed should think otherwise IMO

Jerome

Even disregarding the point that my boss may not actually want me to leave, of course someone else can fill my shoes. But, they will have a long and steep learning curve. Also, for various reasons, I am also very experienced for the money they are paying.

Something most managers forget, is that it is very expensive to replace someone. To fire someone (or have them leave because they can't surf) for spending too much time on the internet, even though they are productive, could cost a damn sight more than leaving them to it.

Spoon

I know, check the length of your left leg.
There seems to be a pattern emerging.

Stueyb

Ok, i'll bite as a sysadmin. The other side of the coin

Let me start by saying we at work really have no issues at all with people surfin the web, we are easy going and I think only one person ended up in trouble over internet usage (erm ended up in jail actually )

However the problem we have is people who love "free" ie download free cursors etc and malware/spyware. Some machines have been so hosed its been easier to format them and start again. This is the only issue we have but it does take time (snet surfin time ) to fix them. To cure this we lock the machine down to the extreme level. Most sysadmins are fine with it and rarely check the logs, only when people begin to really take the **** do we begin to notice.

TBH Im as guilty as anyone but again if your servers are all good and no work, wtf else do i do but surf the net. I also know that some people make a rod for their own back also (ie downloading kiddie **** via council phone lines ) Sysadmins talk you know. We dont really mind, as long as you dont create anymore work for us (BOFH anyone)

Jaydee5

I'm surprised you're not putting marks out of 10 in the margin, Spoon

Chris5-0

I'm going to ignore the barbed comments there Chris5!

Who wants to fall out on a BBS, eh? [/QUOTE]

I'm sorry am i missing something?? (Confused look on face) I was referring to Saxo boys first post, ie THE first post and Jaydee5 jumps in with both feet about a barbred comment??!?!?! Are these the same person?

As for my job its not difficult to work out what i do for a living, just check my other posts, although i will say this, i wasn't always doing what i do now, in fact for a good 8 years before hand i worked in the entertainment industry where we did have the odd hour or so on our hands between things happening. Guess what? I found something constructive to do with my time, i didn't use time i was being paid for by my company to look at websites ad send personal e-mails!!!

As for getting paid for 30 hours and working 50....... no offence but who'se fault is that? I work the hours i'm paid for, any overtime is paid at the going rate and have always worked by that code, there's enough people getting rich off the backs of people working to long and hard and not getting paid for it.

Sorry but no-one here is going to convince me that using the net for personal browsing or e-mails is anything else than wrong. As for the post about it being madness to clamp down on misuse and monitor usage i despair. I work in a culturally and ethically diverse environment where colleagues and myself have loads of outside interests and hobbies and we all get on as well as can be expected within a group of people working in a stressful environment. No-one can tell me that looking at websites and e-mailing would make that any better at all! Again, my opinions!

Jaydee5

Obviously a misunderstanding ther eChris. SAXO BOY is ONE person....your reference to "these people who can't reply til they're back at work" type thing seemed to mean others


And i won't even begin to explain the "paid for 30, work 50 hours"

We all have completely diverse work environments and cultures and this is the last place that any understanding of our differences is going to be gained

Jerome

You regard it as wrong to do anything non-work related during the day and that is fine. You are more than welcome to that work ethic (a noble one considering your occupation).

However, if I was being micro-managed and closely monitored, I would "work to rule". I would start working at exactly 9.00am, take my full lunch hour, and leave at exactly 5.00pm. I would meet my deadlines, but never deliver something early. I certainly wouldn't work as hard as I do now. At least not until I'd found another job. Do you think that is a better scenario than a few minutes of surfing each day?

Having said all that, not everyone can be trusted with being left to their own devices to come up with the goods though. A good manager should know whether you need close supervision or not.

Out of interest Chris, would you consider taking personal calls (eg from a wife/girlfriend/JeffS ) during work hours as acceptable?

TelBoy

Crikey, not sure how to take being implicated in the opening post!!

I'm exceptionally lucky in that i have a job which doesn't require constant attention other than tracking where the market is, so Scoobynet can fill the voids very effectively, and even assists me in keeping a momentum during the day. Plus the fact that London's internet usage isn't monitored, it all works well. I'm lucky, and i realise it.

But i do feel very sorry for anyone affected by the issues discussed here, and i honestly hope i haven't been personally responsible for anyone falling foul of any internal guidelines etc - that's totally not my intention. Just because TelBoy can - please don't assume you can too. Seriously.

Chris5-0

Personal calls in my line of work can be very dangerous, picture the scene, we're creeping up on an address at 0330hrs to do a firearms warrant when suddenly the theme from Bullseye comes blaring out of my top pocket!!!!! Not good at all i think. So in that respect i don't encourage my missus to ring me and she understands, if however she does i know its important and therefore keep my phone with me on silent. I do not however use it onduty other than in emergencies or if i need to contact anyone work related.

Jaydee5,

Still dont understand the paid for 30 work 50 thing, i really think you are at cross purposes with me throughout this thread, none of this has been a personal thing, i just say it as i see it, perhaps if you explain why you think its ok to do 20 hours work and get not paid for it i'll be a little less confused by your posts!!??!?!