NITO

CC, gavin P, scott....

I think you are all spot on. All sorts of peaceable demonstrations have taken place with no apparent affect. If the government are unwilling to bend to a type of demonstration on this scale then how will peaceable demonstrations ever work.

Of course those sceptics out there who feel it will all end in tears when in 2 weeks time inconvenience will sway the public against the farmers...more reason why they need public support more than ever!! If people dont make a stand now for what is right then they will know they can get away with this and continue. As Diablo said, the whole system needs re-looking at. Fullon, it's a defeatist attitude...or I'm sure you would say realistic, but where will the money come from for education etc...well quite frankly the issue is not where will the money come from, rather where will the money go to. They need to realise that the citizens of GB UK are not a bottomless pit of revenue..STOP WASTING TAX PAYERS MONEY!!!

There have been many projects proposed by the government which have not met with public approval, yet Labour continues regardless and contrary to the publics wishes. It is this more than a 2p rise which is the crux of the matter. This is the snapping point. We need some form of revolution because things simply cannot continue as they are. The sheer amount of taxes across the board mean that businesses are folding everywhere, expansion and job creation is limited, which ultimately means more national welfare money wasted etc...Plus the little fact that we are working our ***** off for the government and penalised and discouraged in a sense from working harder.

Blair says he will not bend. Bend to what?? Public opinion? The citizens of whom many voted them in to represent them? The voice of democracy? What exactly won't he bend to?? If he doesn't bend he'll more than likely be snapped!

Consider the way things are becoming... corporation tax, income tax, VAT, inheritance tax, capital gains tax, stamp duty, road tax, unearned income tax, 70%+ fuel tax, national insurance, council tax, insurance tax, parking meters everywhere (as per the -should I pay it? thread currently on the board)gatso cameras everywhere, (although mainly hidden behind signposts on dual carriageways with ridiculously revised low limits and not outside schools). Corporations are taxed on what they earn (when this money would go to far better causes such as expansion and creation of new jobs), We are disproportionately taxed on what we earn, if we work harder we have to pay more!! We are taxed on just about everything we buy, cars, houses, fuel etc.. If our parents die after having worked all their lives to provide for future generations, well-can't forget to pay the governments inheritance tax, make a profit on something you buy and sell- capital gains tax it has to end. The whole system needs re-structuring. Plus all these different taxes mean new departments/administrators etc...more expense to administer. Why not scrap all taxes...everything and raise VAT to 25%. Administration would be far cheaper and easier and you would only be taxed on what you buy and not what you earn. As it is, I feel like a slave to the government while I watch them shamlessly fritter away our hard earned money. They swan around in chauffeur driven cars, take three jets seperately to attend an internatiol meeting because it didn't fit into their schedules to share the same plane! It all needs to stop...and it has to happen soon, I sincerely hope that this blockade is the spring board, things need to be put right, and while it's all too easy to be cynical and say that it won't work, it's a waste of time oh and the guilt trip of a poor old lady who may die because she can't get to Hospital-well that is the government that should take the responsibility of guilt and not palm it on to others as they do with everything else.

Their entire attitude is one of arrogance and denial. Personally I think Blair and downing street should be inconvenienced with a blockade placed outside his house, because he clearly doesn't give a **** about other people being inconvenienced "I won't bend" until he himself is inconvenienced. If I had the fuel, I would gladly participate in a blockade of downing street...so well done those men who have had the ***** to stand up to the govt. Any consequences arising from this fuel blockade should lie with the government and NOT the farmers...

Nito
(p.s. thanks for the govt e-mail addresses, I've sent mine already!)ACT NOW

RichS

Well I DO agree with the blockades.

Our business relys entirely on the ability to deliver goods. Without fuel, we may as well shut up shop.

However, unless somebody can suggest a better way of protesting against our EXORBITANT fuel prices in the U.K. (and don't mention 'dump the pump') I'll continue to support the truckers' direct action approach.


As for petrol stations putting up prices:

- Main stations taking advantage of this current situation and hiking their prices to new unbelievable levels is unacceptable.
- However, I know of at least three rural garage workshops, locally, who also sell fuel as a service to their workshop customers now having to raise prices as they face queues of new customers panic buying petrol and diesel.
To paraphrase one garage owner, "I earn my living repairing and servicing cars. The petrol is just an add on service for me and I make very little profit selling it. Today I have done NOTHING ELSE but serve petrol. I've had to raise my prices a little to justify not being able to run the workshop."
To this, I say fair enough.


Rich

Geezer

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mulder:
<B>
That man had a weak heart and it was going to happen at some point anyway. It just happened that he was queuing for petrol. That story is a load of rubbish, and was created just to dissuade people from supporting the truckers.

Absoulute crap.[/quote]

Thankyou for that heartfelt sympathy for the loss of a human life. We all die sometime, so what's your point?

He had a weak heart, so yes, he was most likely going to have one at some time. But he was in a stressful situation brought about by the blockade.

Scott, I have bought the ring, and I was just about to leave, but I realised I didn't have any petrol..........

Geezer

Mulder

He may have been in a long queue for his pint of milk, and the same may have happened. He was 62, had a weak heart, and like most pensioners suffer from stress extremely easily. Don't get me wrong its sad that it happened, but I don't feel that this should be blamed on the blockade.

Fat Bob

Fullon

Course you're not the only one. People behind the campaign are trying to make it look as though everyone agrees. It's not true. Everyone who needs transport is getting at least a little narked with the arrogant and selfish way this thing has been conducted. CC seems only to be on here to encourage people to support the rebellion and Scott obviously is behind it since it is very important to his Fathers profit margins. - Fair enough, I would support my old man like that too. But realistically Joe Public is suffering for the hoped for gains of a few. Sympathy will not last long.

Bob

GavinP

Funny that no-one that was spoken to on the news whilst sitting in a queue to buy petrol had a bad thing to say about the protest...

Paul Wilson

Look at it this way, all other forms of protest have been tried and they didn't work.

So this is being tried.

I have total support for the protesters

CC

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Fat Bob:
<B>Fullon

....CC seems only to be on here to encourage people to support the rebellion and Scott obviously is behind it since it is very important to his Fathers profit margins. - Fair enough, I would support my old man like that too. But realistically Joe Public is suffering for the hoped for gains of a few. Sympathy will not last long.


Bob[/quote]

LOl @ Bob - i'm not trying to encourage a 'rebellion'! I'm expressing my opinion on the current protests. I haven't ridiculed or tried to belittle anyone that disagrees with my views, I've tried to (honestly) answer any points directed at me, some of which have been very valid, that all. I certainly do want to 'argue' with anyone.....and i *won't* get involved in any silly tit for tat comments.

Regarding Scott supporting his Dad for financial gains.....do you know how many Farmers and Hauliers are facing going out of business? It's not a case of lower fuel prices so that they can buy a new car, it's more a case of lower fuel prices so that they don't go bankrupt .

The gains of a few? I'm puzzled? ALL motorists will gain if fuel duty is decreased won't we? I'm not a farmer or a trucker, but I'm finding it harder and harder to keep myself on the road as are others that i know. Remember - just because you're not being affected, it doesn't mean others aren't either.

I cannot use public transport to go to work because there is none. It's also 17 miles away so i can't walk or cycle. So please tell me *just* what I'm supposed to do if I can longer afford to put petrol in my car?Shall i skip the odd monthly insurance premium and hope that i don't get caught or crash? Please advise me here.

I Stancer

one fine fellow writes
"I hope the truckers continue, and I hope the Farmers join in....Poor buggers, first BSE, then swine fever (I am sure my Missus is suffering from that too ) and of course fuel prices, they have had a pretty rotten lot recently!"

You forgot to mention Nitrogen Fertilizer Price hike (£83-£111/tonne in a year ) and a poor harvest
fuel tax hurts everybody ritch or poor I vote for higher personal taxation that only hits those actualy earning enough money to pay tax . Not many small haulage firms or farmers with a tax burden I assure you!!!!

CC

Gavin P - your dead right about the protesters trying less disruptive ways of negotiating a tax decrease, they have been forced to picket as a last resort.

Maxwell Straker

Blubs,

You never told me about Geezer, you said you were just good friends.

Right thats it, I've had enough of your philandering.....I'm going back to my Mum's. She always said you weren't good enough for me.


PS - This is much for fun than blockades..

Scott J Davies

Geez

Your so right

Maxwell

Didn't anyone else warn you about Blubs, he he, you get what you deserve.

Mungo

What the government needs to remember is that just as it was swept to power on an over-whelming wave of public opinion, it could be just as easily swept from power. The wave of public opinion does seem to be overwhelmingly in favour of those truckers/farmers blockading. They should not forget that the Conservative government shut itslef away in an ivory tower and lost touch with public opinion. Although the government thinks it knows what is good for the country, they will shortly be extremely unpopular, in a way the Conservatives were after the poll tax riots. A lesson from recent political history - the poll tax was eventually changed/scrapped, and I believe fuel duty will also have to be changed.
The most sensible way to do this would seem to be to cut diesel duty, which really distinguishes commercial from private use. Taxi drivers would therefore all need to switch to diesel cars, something that cannot be done overnight, so a capitulation on unleaded duty, with a staged rise to today's levels over the next few months would seem sensible.

CC

Hi,

I've just visited the Dump The Pumps website and read a little of their BB. One post in particular has made me feel very humble. Theres me moaning that I can hardly afford to get to work because of petrol costs etc, when there is a disabled chap who has the same problem of not being able to afford petrol, atleast I can cycle if I really had to. This guy has apparently had a leg amputated due to muscle cancer so a car is the only option. It made me quite sad actually .

On a lighter note - thats it now, I'm more or less out of petrol after a trip this morning and I'm not certainly not putting diesel in. This is what will sort out the men from the boys .

Maxwell Straker

Scott

I feel so dirty and used.

PS - Can I be bridesmaid

CharlesW

Here is another site to keep an eye on during this fuel crisis

I Stancer

WEEL spotted GEEZER
"Please someone correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will ), but there is no duty on red diesel, so why are farmers involved in this protest? Is it just a bandwagon for them to get on to get back at the government for BSE?"

You are right that red Diesel is cheap by comparison to Derv , but at the moment at 25p/litre aprox as compared with 11p this time last year it is having a huge effect . As an oil producing nation this govt is getting huge extra revinue for oil at a high price
BUT red Diesel is not the only issue , Farmers by deffinition are country dwellers and the car is the only form of transport available and also of course high milage is inevitable a car is not a lifestyle choice ( a Scoob. Turbo is but that is a different story )it is essential for everybody .

But even this is not the main reason for protest . Farming relies to a dissproportionately (wow) large extent on the haulage industry to bring in raw materials (at retail prices ) and dispatch high volumes of low value produce over large distances . i.e. 25 tonnes of wheat at a value of £1500 collected from a remote farm in Lincolnshire and taken to a mill in say Liverpool ,means a high cost per tonne in fuel which is always passed on to the farmer in a lower price for a commodity already at or bellow break even value anyway or squeezzzzed out of the deal for the haulier and farmer by a merchant .
So as you see this is very much solidarity with the haulage industry for mutual benefit

dissmount soap-box

Flame suit on standby !

Ian

blubs

Scott, Geezer and Max,

I do not really wish to have a serious relationship with any of you.

However, I have no problem with all three of you just using me for sex, ( at the same time if you like ).

blubs

ps Bring it on big boyz!!!

millband

Am I alone in agreeing with the blockade, but now starting to think that it had better end effing soon before it loeses public support?

I want cheaper fuel, but the point has been made now. I've had a cancel a visit to my disabled Dad and now my holiday looks in danger, and frankly I've had enough.

Get the bloody tankers moving!

S

Geezer

I know of several small businesses who are already feeling the effects of this blockade. Plumbers, gardeners, sparkies etc. cannot get out to earn money as they cannot travel. The haulage firms do not have the right to endanger the these peoples livelyhoods. As fullonloon says, we have the right to support this action or not, but the blockaders have removed this option. That is what pisses me off.

Ian,
I didn't realise that red diesel had increased so much. However, they still get the option to drive round on public highways on fuel that is much cheaper than we can get it for. And before anyone tries "but they can only use for farming", if you're seriously trying to tell me that any farmer empties his tanks and recharged them with normal diesel for road use, then you're talking out yer ****! ANyway, they should have saved up some of those huge subsidies that the EU have given them over the last 30 years for growing food that nobody wants

Geezer

Paul Wilson

Geezer, the farmer would never empty his red diesel out of his tractor to drive into town, but then its not exactly the most convienient vehicle in the world. When was the last time you saw a Massy Ferguson parked up outside the butchers, with Mrs Farmer Wife getting the Sunday joint?
But farmers are not allowed to put red diesel in their road cars at all, and Customs and Excise do check.

It would probably cost more to drive a tractor into town than using taxed diesel in a road car anyway, as fuel economy is not fantastic on tractors

Mr Leigh

The blockade has my full support.

Fullonloon

What I object to is the fact the my freedom to choose if I support the blockades has been taken away. I have no choice as there is no petrol. The thing about the Dump the Pump campaign was people were given the opportunity to choose wether or not they would fill up. People who supported the campaign didn't fill up - those who didn't, would.
That choice has been taken away from me- and that is why I object to the blockades.

That fact that it is of great inconvenience to me doesn't seem to bother the protestors. I support their argument not their actions as it has now effected a large percentage of the population.

Q

DavidRB

Seeing as we're talking about choice, what about all the truckers, etc. who feel they have no choice <I>but</I> to take such drastic action and picket the supply depots?

Where's their choice if they face losing their jobs, homes & livelihoods just because European competitors with cheaper fuel bills can undercut them in their <I>own country</I>?

All those small businesses who depend so much on petrol or diesel are already suffering because of the price increases over the last couple of years.

adamson

S,

You can't have your cake and eat it!!!

As long as other people are being inconveninced that's fine, but not me!

Yes, the point has been made but we have had no movement nor any hint of a movement on policy.

Sorry for the rant, but we need to stand firm on this!

Craig.

[This message has been edited by adamson (edited 13 September 2000).]

[This message has been edited by adamson (edited 13 September 2000).]

206GTI Brudda

If I'm making this sound too easy then shoot me, but...

If european competitors are beating your business to it simply because fuel is cheaper across the boarder - then why not setup shop there?
I'm talking about a liddle village on the french coast somewhere?
OKOK - Never mind - British workers would still miss out I guess.... No bo11okz, they wouldn't - more meat, better weather, shcool hours are shorter, OK so you can't mod your scooby but who cares? They're in the trucking business dammit - it involves being away from home for day's/weeks at a time.

I don't think they're actually thinking business. It's more like they're thinking - I'm being shafted? - Lets Shaft 'em back! - SHAFT!

Where I come from - It's all about making sideways moves to get yours. Stop for what? Stop for who?

Geezer

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidRB:
<B>Seeing as we're talking about choice, what about all the truckers, etc. who feel they have no choice <I>but</I> to take such drastic action and picket the supply depots?

Where's their choice if they face losing their jobs, homes & livelihoods just because European competitors with cheaper fuel bills can undercut them in their <I>own country</I>?

All those small businesses who depend so much on petrol or diesel are already suffering because of the price increases over the last couple of years. [/quote]

Er, yes, what's your point here? They have exercised their right to choose to take action, however, they are not allowing me to choose to not participate in a boycott of fuel.

You all whinge about fuel prices, but no one extolls the virtues of the good things in the UK. Like I've already said, you all want something for nothing.

Geezer

Leigh

OK,
I agree with the blockades but Tony Blaaiirrrgghh!!! ain't gonna budge, I have 1/4 tank of SUL left!!

Move the damn blockades!!!

Flame suit on!

Leigh

adamson

Geezer,

Sorry? Something for nothing? Who said that? When?

Everyone realises that revenue must be raised through taxation, a portion of it through direct taxation (PAYE,NI, etc..) and a portion through indirect taxes (fuel duty, VAT, etc..)

I think you'll find that the protest is based on the fact that tax on fuel has increased hugely under New Labour and additional revenue for the government raised through fuel tax does not go into providing better roads/public transpost.

Craig.

JohnPrescott

I knew it wouldn't be long before you pussies crumble, he he he he.

Stoke up my V - 12 22 litre supercharged Daddy Jag, I'm off to gloat.