suprabeast

For a start SH was dangerous and needed to be removed, whether he had WMD's or not is irrelevant, he wouldnt allow the UN top check otherwise therefore the natural assumption is that he did.

Plus everyone complains the war was about oil... Well what would have happened if SH had decided that there would be no more oil sold to the west. OR it would be tripled in price?

It could have crippled the whole of western civilisation.

And finally, in his reign of control, he still killed more people than the war and allot of them were his own

RedFive

Wouldn't logic then imply that the attacks would be carried out by Iraqis or Afghans ? (devils advocate).

CoobyS

So sounds like you do support the war but unwilling to accept the consequences - i.e. us suffering reprisal attacks. This was known to be the case before we went to war.

OllyK

Dangerous as in an actual threat, or dngerous becuase the spin doctors wanted you to think that to legitimise the invasion?

So we'd have been shafted by our own greed. The need for more resources was the reasoning behind Germany invading poland and such, are you saying that invasion is justified becuase a country has something you want?

And that is relevant how? Pol Pot killed millions, didn't see us invading Cambodia, or Russia when Stalin was getting busy. We aren't doing too much about Zimbabwe either, but then, they don't have massive oil reserves either.

The whole Iraq war is based on lies, deception and spin to try and justify invading another country because we want to plunder their resources. If that's how you want to behave, you have to expect people will retaliate.

CoobyS

Not really a devil's advocate statement as I'm sure if the Iraqis and Afghans had the chance they would love to blow the UK to bits. Instead their brethren who have the means, opportunities and motives are taking the honours.

suprabeast

HE WAS DEEMED AN ACTUAL THREAT

CoobyS

Yes he was an actual threat to the Western economy because being a leader of a country with the highest untapped oil per barrel produced ratio, should he have refused to play ball we would have been in grave danger of economic collapse. A fact openly admitted to by the UK/US Governments.

OllyK

Based on what has turned out to be incorrect information.

One then has to ask at what point GW and TB actually knew that info was false and wether it was spin to get the public on board. I doubt we will ever know, but the way things all came to a head rather quickly and without a second resolution does make me wonder why there was suddenly (after several years) such a big rush.

Flatcapdriver

Rubbish. There was very little oil coming out of Iraq during that time anyway given the embargos forced through by the West so other than the oil for food programme it didn't have that much impact. What everyone forgets is that there are plenty of oil reserves about at present and what is forcing prices up is high demand coupled with a lack of refining capacity. Oil prices have doubled over the last couple of years and there has been no economic collapse.

CoobyS

You're missing the point that Iraq has the largest untapped supplies. Therefore, to get control over these for the problems in the next 20 or so years that will arise from shortages in the West, it was justified we invade Iraq.

Think long term, we're not talking about a couple of years.

Read the US Governments own papers which warn of the coming shortages and were made public a year before the invasion.

Jap2Scrap

I think that a possible flaw in your assumption that it's wholly a conquering invasion is that it's anything but conquering. Let's be honest, if the US and UK wanted outright control of Iraq nothing could stop them taking it. It's the softly, softly, let's not tread on any toes approach that has landed our troops in the mess they're in. Exposed and vulnerable to resistance by trying to present a peaceful force rather than an invasion.

MJW

But the US and UK do have total control over Iraq with the puppet government they installed ! The only reason Saddam was removed because he wasn't playing ball with the oil supplies - the US and UK governments couldn't give a flying f**k about the Iraqi people, as demonstrated during the years Saddam was our best buddy. Human rights ? Nah, here Saddam wanna buy some more weapons from us ? And 'peaceful forces' is a bit of an oxymoron isn't it ? Cluster bombs and depleted uranium rounds aren't PR tools !

CoobyS

I made no assumption of the sort, although the control of Iraq and whether it is conquered is open for debate.

Jap2Scrap

Mmm good point. It's all about image I suppose.

Jap2Scrap

Of course, but I read from your posts that the Invasion was just that, an invasion to seize Iraq, rather than to free its people. I just feel that they could have done that by now if they'd really wanted to.

moses

when did i miss something who was on and what channel

moses

cooby would u enjoy bigmacs while a foreign government an invader is stealing your wealth while giving u bigmacs

i bet u would

moses

well said astra and also usa gave him evil weapons to use it on the iranians too

moses

thanks mate well said i quote

"like one guy said our apache helicopters and f-16's are our suicide bombers".

they dont have an army

MJW

Yes, it's great now the Iraqis are free : they're free to choose from literally several American contractors to re-build the infrastructure that was destroyed by American bombs. But they'll have to pay for it themselves of course ...

In fact, the contract for re-building Iraq was awarded to Bush's long time buddies Bechtel (who's former list of upper management reads like a who's who of US government). Strange that isn't it ?

CoobyS

It's the least the Amercians can do. I mean after invading their country, reducing it to rubbles, controlling their oil, killing 25k+ people, some Big Macs wouldn't go amiss. And the people of America/UK will ensure Bush and Blair remain in power for their hospitality.

AsifScoob

Anjem someone was on Ch4 news, one of the former bigwigs from Al-Muhajuroun.

He actually avoided the question about whether UK citizens are a legitimate targets for suicide bombers, I took the answer as being yes.

He was on there having a debate with a chap from the Muslim Interfaith Organisation and accused him of not being a 'proper Muslim' - very poor show in my opinion.

You either kill EVERYBODY, like some on here think, or you agree that EVERYONE has a right to life. Until Muslim people feel some sort of justice and equality then people like this mad man will find people to listen to him - and agree within him.

Whether actually banning him from speaking and deporting him to somewhere will actually change anything I dont know.

Also 'engaging' with the Muslim community, in order to wash their hands of any responsibility for recent events is one of the dirtiest tricks played by New Labour.

If more bombs go off, it really will be the responsibility of the Muslim community as these people have now agreed to 'resolve' these issues in the UK, so they are on the hook for it, in my opinion. NL is free to carry on Crusading through the Middle East as Bush's bum chum and can now blame someone else even more conveniently than before.

Why dont we just stop creating these situations? Seems simple to me.

Asif

moses

thanks alot bros i missed it, u know anyone who taped it bros

i was watching newsnight and then watched a few star plus asian soaps

kahin to hoga, kyunki saas be khabi bahu thee and before that kausati my wife records it for me when im at work i luv it
and 11.05 836 channel islamic one i watch agenda my fave programme

moses

here is my fave mother and mother n law in the soaps

tulsi virani

AsifScoob

LOL, my Mum loves that stuff.

Dont know anyone who has it, try the CH4 Website

Asif

moses

inshallah will do bros i never ever did like asian soaps but i got hooked u know the time we come back from work at night and the food is ready the maw and wife r watchin the soaps and u get hooked

AsifScoob

LOL, Ive been there. Mum is banned from watching that stuff now, she was literally glued to it, not eating, going to sleep, she went mad!!

Oh, time to go and watch Big Brother!

Asif

moses

bros same prob here my mums always glued on it only time she moves is to read salat and eat or sleep at night


lol big brother that kamal is a backstabbing c;unt

Leslie

CoobyS,

In answer to your previous question about the cause of the London attacks, yes that is exactly what I would say.

Les