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London bombings. Cave in or dig in?
22 July 2005, 08:36 PM
#31
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one more thing i was supposed to stay low
and now im def aff
and i mean im aff home in 30 mins and not with a backpack
like someone suggested
rook maybe u forget the i.r.a caused alot of devastation in england bombs and stuff
and now im def aff
and i mean im aff home in 30 mins and not with a backpack
like someone suggested
rook maybe u forget the i.r.a caused alot of devastation in england bombs and stuff
22 July 2005, 08:39 PM
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Chill out moses, like I said, it was a joke (unfortunately now i have sobered up not a very funny one) there was no malice intended.
And as for ****ting myself, if I was I wouldn't be working in London, just annoys me that I have been fighting their cause from a different side of the fence.
And as for ****ting myself, if I was I wouldn't be working in London, just annoys me that I have been fighting their cause from a different side of the fence.
22 July 2005, 08:44 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by moses
rook maybe u forget the i.r.a caused alot of devastation in england bombs and stuff
22 July 2005, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnRoly
Chill out moses, like I said, it was a joke (unfortunately now i have sobered up not a very funny one) there was no malice intended.
And as for ****ting myself, if I was I wouldn't be working in London, just annoys me that I have been fighting their cause from a different side of the fence.
And as for ****ting myself, if I was I wouldn't be working in London, just annoys me that I have been fighting their cause from a different side of the fence.
ok then apologise accepted and im sorry too
well this time im aff
no one call me back
cheers
and also rook why not **** yourself is it a crime, im sure u would be if your loved ones were on the line too
22 July 2005, 08:52 PM
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22 July 2005, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnRoly
I am not suggesting for one minute that the entire Muslim community is so close that everybody knows everybody, and I am by no means a racist (you are probably right about the matches though!!). But are you telling me that you do not live in a tight knit community?
I have been an active protestor against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and whole heartedly disagree with our foreign policy, yet by working in London I am at risk of becoming a statistic, and that annoys me.
I have been an active protestor against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and whole heartedly disagree with our foreign policy, yet by working in London I am at risk of becoming a statistic, and that annoys me.
OK, but I never accused you of racism btw. The mosque comment was so obviously something to bite at.
FYI I dont live in a tight knit community, by what I think your definition is of that.
I have a large and extended family, which I am close to, but we only get together as a whole group (something like 60-70 of us) about once or twice a year.
I do see my siblings and their children reasonably frequently, but they dont live close to me.
I live in West London, not far from Southall, but I dont feel part of a tight knit community. I have as reasonable relations with my neighbours as can be expected, but they are all mixed and mainly white, we have some vague community spirit, but not enough to rely on.
Does that answer your question?
We could all be stats of one type or another and at any time. I live in London, but as I work in the airline industry my life is at risk at one level, but saving that my livelihood is as well.
I too am annoyed, as I believe are most people in London, of all types. Sure there are a few nutcases and supporters, but if I were them I wouldn't exactly be dancing in the streets right now.
Right now, any sort of angry and negative reaction plays right into the terrorists hands. OBL could not be happier, sitting in his cave or whatever, to know that around the World people are at each others' throats because of what he has done.
Anyway.
Going out now.
Asif
22 July 2005, 09:15 PM
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My humble apologies Asif, like i said was a terrible comment now I read it back, was supposed to be a joke, but unfortunately my humour is about as funny as Mike Reid's.
Wasn't accussing you of calling me racist, just trying to dig myself out of a big hole I had created!!!
Wasn't accussing you of calling me racist, just trying to dig myself out of a big hole I had created!!!
22 July 2005, 09:18 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by JohnRoly
My humble apologies Asif, like i said was a terrible comment now I read it back, was supposed to be a joke, but unfortunately my humour is about as funny as Mike Reid's.
Wasn't accussing you of calling me racist, just trying to dig myself out of a big hole I had created!!!
Wasn't accussing you of calling me racist, just trying to dig myself out of a big hole I had created!!!
Did I answer your questions btw, took me ages to type that?
Asif
23 July 2005, 12:21 AM
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No worries moses, I am kinda good at being a ******** (stick to what you know and all that!!!) especially after a couple of drinks!
Cheers Asif, did read your answer in full (and I can believe it took a while to write!) and appreciate the insight. Consider my question answered, and again, sorry if I caused offence.
Have a good weekend all
Roly
Cheers Asif, did read your answer in full (and I can believe it took a while to write!) and appreciate the insight. Consider my question answered, and again, sorry if I caused offence.
Have a good weekend all
Roly
23 July 2005, 08:41 AM
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Having been a part of the force which has illegally destroyed the country, killed so many civilans, and started the absolute mess which it is in now, we certainly have no excuse to pull out of Iraq.
This should all have been foreseen by a competent and honest government in the first place.
Les
This should all have been foreseen by a competent and honest government in the first place.
Les
23 July 2005, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AsifScoob
Why not just engage in hostilities, with countries/organisations that represent a genuine threat to us?
If you use this policy with consistency, I see no reason why people will attack you if they know they will get it back, seemed to work during the Cold War, think it also works in the schoolyard. With that we can formulate an exit strategy from these sorts of places, but with that warning in the background.
Before anyone says I know this is different, not a Cold War etc. However, the basic principle of "Talk softly and carry a big stick" is a clearly understood political principle, IMO.
Afghanistan and Iraq, as nations had done nothing to us, but we attacked them, people dont like that and are responding in various ways, Suicide Bombing being one of them.
I know OBL was hiding out with the Taliban, but I am sure that if there had been a (political) will there would have been a (political) way. No country in the World, even friends of theirs like Pakistan would have supported them and the Taliban would have simply handed him over, be it for a ransom or perhaps even recognition as a sovereign govt. (or some other political benefit)
So it might have taken a few months, no govt likes to be ridden roughshod over, but thats what we did to the Taliban because we wanted to take them out.
Thats what happened to Saddam too, he had dismantled everything he had in terms of WMD and just got thoroughly hacked off with continual demands for inspections etc. so threw them out. That provided the flimsiest of excuses and war was inevitable.
Just my tuppence.
Asif
If you use this policy with consistency, I see no reason why people will attack you if they know they will get it back, seemed to work during the Cold War, think it also works in the schoolyard. With that we can formulate an exit strategy from these sorts of places, but with that warning in the background.
Before anyone says I know this is different, not a Cold War etc. However, the basic principle of "Talk softly and carry a big stick" is a clearly understood political principle, IMO.
Afghanistan and Iraq, as nations had done nothing to us, but we attacked them, people dont like that and are responding in various ways, Suicide Bombing being one of them.
I know OBL was hiding out with the Taliban, but I am sure that if there had been a (political) will there would have been a (political) way. No country in the World, even friends of theirs like Pakistan would have supported them and the Taliban would have simply handed him over, be it for a ransom or perhaps even recognition as a sovereign govt. (or some other political benefit)
So it might have taken a few months, no govt likes to be ridden roughshod over, but thats what we did to the Taliban because we wanted to take them out.
Thats what happened to Saddam too, he had dismantled everything he had in terms of WMD and just got thoroughly hacked off with continual demands for inspections etc. so threw them out. That provided the flimsiest of excuses and war was inevitable.
Just my tuppence.
Asif
23 July 2005, 10:31 AM
#45
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Cave in? Hmmm Why did the terrorists attack the USA on 9/11? That was before Afghan was invaded. I dont think it matters what we do the sick tw@ts will just carry on as they hate us.
Unfortunately no matter who dissagrees with me the only way is to get rid of them, stop letting them have all the rights and shut the bloody doors. Until people realise this it will carry on.
Do people seriously think they are going to stop.
These people have something f*cked up in their religions - This is seen as they all come from the same kind/very similar religions.
Unfortunately I think we need to get them out of the country TBH.
Unfortunately no matter who dissagrees with me the only way is to get rid of them, stop letting them have all the rights and shut the bloody doors. Until people realise this it will carry on.
Do people seriously think they are going to stop.
These people have something f*cked up in their religions - This is seen as they all come from the same kind/very similar religions.
Unfortunately I think we need to get them out of the country TBH.
23 July 2005, 05:12 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by ScooBStu
Cave in? Hmmm Why did the terrorists attack the USA on 9/11? That was before Afghan was invaded. I dont think it matters what we do the sick tw@ts will just carry on as they hate us.
Unfortunately no matter who dissagrees with me the only way is to get rid of them, stop letting them have all the rights and shut the bloody doors. Until people realise this it will carry on.
Do people seriously think they are going to stop.
These people have something f*cked up in their religions - This is seen as they all come from the same kind/very similar religions.
Unfortunately I think we need to get them out of the country TBH.
Unfortunately no matter who dissagrees with me the only way is to get rid of them, stop letting them have all the rights and shut the bloody doors. Until people realise this it will carry on.
Do people seriously think they are going to stop.
These people have something f*cked up in their religions - This is seen as they all come from the same kind/very similar religions.
Unfortunately I think we need to get them out of the country TBH.
Try reading some of the other posts and threads on here, before going off on a tangent. There are plenty of sensible people, all from different viewpoints, but they have managed to agree on some of the answers to some of the questions you pose.
Unless I am mistaken you seem to be confusing the Asylum Seeker issue with the current terrorist attacks, exactly how are they related? The terrorists weren't asylum seekers we have been told, they were born here - like you and me.
Who exactly are we going to send out of the country, terrorists or Asylum Seekers? And how would this happen? Please explain.
Please, only post sensibly, or dont bother.
Asif
25 July 2005, 08:50 AM
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Thought the cowards (refuse to give them the title used elsewhere, that only glorifies them) aim was to convert us infidels to their religion ? No way.
But I also do not agree with the years and years of so called Christians going forth into the jungle/desert to convert those who live there........let each to his own.
Yve
But I also do not agree with the years and years of so called Christians going forth into the jungle/desert to convert those who live there........let each to his own.
Yve
25 July 2005, 08:58 AM
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And yes Les, I totally agree with your very valid points.
I thought the best way to deal with the tyrant Hussein, (and I do agree he needed sorting out), was to put an elite squad in there, to specifically take him out, then clear off out of it. We would have avoided so much of this mess.
Oh and for those who are going to compare this thread with my previous one and call me a hypocrite........ THAT was a very extreme form of dictatorship, many thousands suffered for decades......no one really has any right to treat people like that IMHO, so for once in my life, I agree that interferance as mentioned here was probably the only answer.....I just reckon we and the USA went about it in a cack-handed way. Like stirring up the proverbial hornets nest.
Yve
I thought the best way to deal with the tyrant Hussein, (and I do agree he needed sorting out), was to put an elite squad in there, to specifically take him out, then clear off out of it. We would have avoided so much of this mess.
Oh and for those who are going to compare this thread with my previous one and call me a hypocrite........ THAT was a very extreme form of dictatorship, many thousands suffered for decades......no one really has any right to treat people like that IMHO, so for once in my life, I agree that interferance as mentioned here was probably the only answer.....I just reckon we and the USA went about it in a cack-handed way. Like stirring up the proverbial hornets nest.
Yve
25 July 2005, 11:55 AM
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Apparition, why if Saddam Hussein was such an 'extreme' dictator did you not hear about him before he bit America's hand. The same with the Taliban. There are plenty like Saddam around the world and we gladly support them. When we don't want them anymore we start making up stories about babies being taken out of incubators and people being put through plastic shredders.
The first thing the US did was secure the Oil Ministry in Iraq, when they invaded, while the rest of Iraq was left to burn and be looted including the hospitals. So much for Operation Iraqi Freedom. We could fly Richard Branson in to survey all the commercial opportunities but not a single band-aid. Then you wonder why there is so much anger in the muslim world.
I believe we need to pull out of Iraq and get a United Nations force in to keep some peace. While the USA and UK remain there the bombings will not end. It's 2 years later and more Iraqis have died this year than the last.
The Spanish pulled their troops out and they haven't suffered any attacks since. Did they give in to the bombers? No, the public were overwhelmingly against the war anyway and voted for a new govt that was against keeping troops there before the Madrid bombing.
The first thing the US did was secure the Oil Ministry in Iraq, when they invaded, while the rest of Iraq was left to burn and be looted including the hospitals. So much for Operation Iraqi Freedom. We could fly Richard Branson in to survey all the commercial opportunities but not a single band-aid. Then you wonder why there is so much anger in the muslim world.
I believe we need to pull out of Iraq and get a United Nations force in to keep some peace. While the USA and UK remain there the bombings will not end. It's 2 years later and more Iraqis have died this year than the last.
The Spanish pulled their troops out and they haven't suffered any attacks since. Did they give in to the bombers? No, the public were overwhelmingly against the war anyway and voted for a new govt that was against keeping troops there before the Madrid bombing.
25 July 2005, 12:11 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by gsm1
The Spanish pulled their troops out and they haven't suffered any attacks since. Did they give in to the bombers? No, the public were overwhelmingly against the war anyway and voted for a new govt that was against keeping troops there before the Madrid bombing.
26 July 2005, 08:46 AM
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I suppose its a bit difficult for them to let go of all that oil of course. As GSM said that was a priority once the war was said to have been won at the time. Gives the lie to it all I think.
I don't see how we could dump our responsibilties and pull out as well as Bush at the moment since we would just see another sadistic dictator in control and an even bigger bloodbath to go with it. It was reported that Bush is having discussions on how to get out and it has also been mentioned in this country too!
Shows the gross incompetence of starting it all in the first place.
Les
I don't see how we could dump our responsibilties and pull out as well as Bush at the moment since we would just see another sadistic dictator in control and an even bigger bloodbath to go with it. It was reported that Bush is having discussions on how to get out and it has also been mentioned in this country too!
Shows the gross incompetence of starting it all in the first place.
Les
26 July 2005, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Apparition
Thought the cowards (refuse to give them the title used elsewhere, that only glorifies them) aim was to convert us infidels to their religion ? No way.
But I also do not agree with the years and years of so called Christians going forth into the jungle/desert to convert those who live there........let each to his own.
Yve
But I also do not agree with the years and years of so called Christians going forth into the jungle/desert to convert those who live there........let each to his own.
Yve
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