Re: The Man Shot Last Week
29 July 2005, 06:48 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by Chris5-0
It's a double edged sword. Pistol wise, i'd put my neck on the block and say i'm a better shot than a good percentage in the army. Purely because squaddies (unless their role deems it neccessary) do not get trained in pistol shooting and do not carry. Carbine wise, again operationally i am more than happy to be able to hit a half man sized target at 50 metres 100% of the time with a tight group.
This however is nothing if it cannot be put into use operationally. I'd happily bet i get engaged in more live armed operations than an average soldier does adn draw my weapon more (Iraq being the exception i think). But it is a different game, it's like comparing British football to Argentinian football, they use the same kit, have the same skill levels but everyone raves over the argentinians and just assumes their better!
I get a full week dedicated to training every 6 with loads of rounds fired as well as training during shift time, (house entry, containment, shield searches etc) My understanding is this, give me a house to contain, negotiate with and eventually enter and clear and i'll do a better job than all of the army (bar the obvious). Put me on a field in Iraq with an SA80 and point at a horizon and tell me to kill baddies and they have the edge.
This however is nothing if it cannot be put into use operationally. I'd happily bet i get engaged in more live armed operations than an average soldier does adn draw my weapon more (Iraq being the exception i think). But it is a different game, it's like comparing British football to Argentinian football, they use the same kit, have the same skill levels but everyone raves over the argentinians and just assumes their better!
I get a full week dedicated to training every 6 with loads of rounds fired as well as training during shift time, (house entry, containment, shield searches etc) My understanding is this, give me a house to contain, negotiate with and eventually enter and clear and i'll do a better job than all of the army (bar the obvious). Put me on a field in Iraq with an SA80 and point at a horizon and tell me to kill baddies and they have the edge.
Simon
29 July 2005, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mart360
quick question please endulge me...
once you have used your weapon for training purposes, adn you come to clean it ,,
can you very quickly describe the steps you take
M
once you have used your weapon for training purposes, adn you come to clean it ,,
can you very quickly describe the steps you take
M
OK then! I use a Glock 17 SLP so first thing is to make sure it's clear (obvious) of any ammunition. We always rack the action 3 times to prove the weapon is safe.
Cleaning.
Glocks are idiot proof weapons which is why they give them us!! For cleaning we strip them into 4 main pieces, i.e. the slide (top piece that goes back and forth during firing) the barrel (which comes out of the top slide), the slide spring (again from inside the slide) and the polycarbonate body of the weapon. we then use a combination of hard and soft bristled 'toothbrushes' to remove the grime and carbon deposits. We then use what we call orange wipes to wipe down the pieces and again remove any further muck. We then use a piece of cloth (2x4) to wipe and dry down the pieces. We also pull through the barrel with the orange and a dry piece of 2x4 to get rid of any gun shot residue that will be in there from firing live rounds. Once this is all done i oil her up a bit and reassemble, finishing off with another 3 racks to prove clear and move the oil about a bit. Easy really!
29 July 2005, 07:41 PM
#63
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Simon,
Marines i'll have on your authority as i don't know much about their weaponary. As for enthusiasts i'll have that too, there's some strange people out there who can hit a flying ant at one mile with both eyes shut!!!!!
Marines i'll have on your authority as i don't know much about their weaponary. As for enthusiasts i'll have that too, there's some strange people out there who can hit a flying ant at one mile with both eyes shut!!!!!
29 July 2005, 08:01 PM
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[QUOTE=Chris5-0]OK then! I use a Glock 17 SLP so first thing is to make sure it's clear (obvious) of any ammunition. We always rack the action 3 times to prove the weapon is safe.
Thats what i thought you would say...
long story... many years ago i attended a suicide.... the person in question had
used his own hand gun and goodbye....
at the inquest.... verdict accident.....
thing was he was a trained 5-0 !! armed officer...
always wondered how they came up with that verdict..
M
Thats what i thought you would say...
long story... many years ago i attended a suicide.... the person in question had
used his own hand gun and goodbye....
at the inquest.... verdict accident.....
thing was he was a trained 5-0 !! armed officer...
always wondered how they came up with that verdict..
M
29 July 2005, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris5-0
Simon,
Marines i'll have on your authority as i don't know much about their weaponary. As for enthusiasts i'll have that too, there's some strange people out there who can hit a flying ant at one mile with both eyes shut!!!!!
Marines i'll have on your authority as i don't know much about their weaponary. As for enthusiasts i'll have that too, there's some strange people out there who can hit a flying ant at one mile with both eyes shut!!!!!
when aimed. (sic) they can remove the wings when flying!!
lol
Mart
29 July 2005, 08:23 PM
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[QUOTE=mart360]
Eeermm? Yep, very odd!!!
Originally Posted by Chris5-0
OK then! I use a Glock 17 SLP so first thing is to make sure it's clear (obvious) of any ammunition. We always rack the action 3 times to prove the weapon is safe.
Thats what i thought you would say...
long story... many years ago i attended a suicide.... the person in question had
used his own hand gun and goodbye....
at the inquest.... verdict accident.....
thing was he was a trained 5-0 !! armed officer...
always wondered how they came up with that verdict..
M
Thats what i thought you would say...
long story... many years ago i attended a suicide.... the person in question had
used his own hand gun and goodbye....
at the inquest.... verdict accident.....
thing was he was a trained 5-0 !! armed officer...
always wondered how they came up with that verdict..
M
Eeermm? Yep, very odd!!!
29 July 2005, 08:25 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by Chris5-0
there's some strange people out there who can hit a flying ant at one mile with both eyes shut!!!!!
One of these enthusiasts was boasting to a friend about how he could hit a flying ant at 250 metres. The friend asked him to prove it so they went to the practice range. Enthusiast gives the friend binoculars and tells him to watch an ant flying along some distance away. He takes aim and fires. Ant continues flying along so the friend says "That's not very impressive. You missed!" Enthusiast says, "Missed? Wait till it goes to scratch its bollocks!"
[/joke]
29 July 2005, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jap2Scrap
The Home Office have now confirmed that his visa had expired two years ago.
Does this make a difference to how you feel about his shooting?
Should the police be liable for compensation knowing that?
Do his family have the right to lambast our security forces when he should not have been here?
Does it make any difference at all even?
Does this make a difference to how you feel about his shooting?
Should the police be liable for compensation knowing that?
Do his family have the right to lambast our security forces when he should not have been here?
Does it make any difference at all even?
30 July 2005, 12:43 AM
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I know the Brazilian guy shouldn't have been shot etc etc
But maybe, its made a few crims stop and think, did you here what one of the bombers was saying today? "How do I know your not going to shoot me?" "Please dont shoot me/kill me" I bet they wouldnt have been so scared if the Police hadnt already shot and killed someone while trying to hunt them down!
But maybe, its made a few crims stop and think, did you here what one of the bombers was saying today? "How do I know your not going to shoot me?" "Please dont shoot me/kill me" I bet they wouldnt have been so scared if the Police hadnt already shot and killed someone while trying to hunt them down!
31 July 2005, 09:06 AM
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Reality,
I certainly agree that best thing is to wait and see what comes out of the enquiry. Its a good point that none of us know the full sequence of events and have to rely on what is reported in the media.
Les
I certainly agree that best thing is to wait and see what comes out of the enquiry. Its a good point that none of us know the full sequence of events and have to rely on what is reported in the media.
Les
17 August 2005, 08:35 AM
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It would seem from recent developments
1. He wasn't identified as he left the flats as the guy watching was having a ****
2. He wasn't challenged at the ticket gate and didn't vault it - he used his ticket - picked up a free news paper, walked down the escalator then ran for the train
3. He wasn't wearing heavy clothing
4. He was held down in his seat by the surveillance officers then armed officers boarded the train and shot him.
1. He wasn't identified as he left the flats as the guy watching was having a ****
2. He wasn't challenged at the ticket gate and didn't vault it - he used his ticket - picked up a free news paper, walked down the escalator then ran for the train
3. He wasn't wearing heavy clothing
4. He was held down in his seat by the surveillance officers then armed officers boarded the train and shot him.
17 August 2005, 09:15 AM
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Well considering these documents the news channels have picked up seem a mystery to everyone else and what is now being reported goes against the grain of eye witness accounts minutes after the incident Im not believing any story until its been fully investigated and given an official report. We all know how twisted the media are.
17 August 2005, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by davegtt
Well considering these documents the news channels have picked up seem a mystery to everyone else and what is now being reported goes against the grain of eye witness accounts minutes after the incident Im not believing any story until its been fully investigated and given an official report. We all know how twisted the media are.
17 August 2005, 09:29 AM
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I still think it was a necessary evil, and unfortunately a relatively innocent man was killed (I say realtively as his visa had expired had it not?)
I will wait for the reports from source to decide, but I can't see the media swaying the way I feel!
I will wait for the reports from source to decide, but I can't see the media swaying the way I feel!
17 August 2005, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by boxst
Hello
He probably didn't get what he deserved, but the Police were correct in acting in the way they did.
Steve
He probably didn't get what he deserved, but the Police were correct in acting in the way they did.
Steve
mate the news said he didnt run away at all the investigation was leaked
17 August 2005, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyFlow
Although it seems harsh, I somewhat agree with this view! That is not to say that all illegals should be shot to death - but in the current climate, if running from armed police - then they made the right choice!
if its ok to shoot illegals its ok to shoot drug dealers and pimps and social parasites in the uk wont u agree and chavs and gangsters
17 August 2005, 09:47 AM
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The report on ITN News website has a scenes of crime shot clearly showing that he was not wearing a big heavy coat (though I think it was insensitive to show the photo on the website), so these "leaked reports" appear to have some basis in fact.
If proved true, it does show a remarkable failure in the intelligence and decision making process leading to the death of a completely innocent man.
If proved true, it does show a remarkable failure in the intelligence and decision making process leading to the death of a completely innocent man.
17 August 2005, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooby Soon!
Whats this about his family saying he didn;t have a coat on and he didnt have a rucksack and he didnt jump the barriers, is all this true? Were members of his family there to witness what he did????????????????
interesting in the light of today's news .....
17 August 2005, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by moses
if its ok to shoot illegals its ok to shoot drug dealers and pimps and social parasites in the uk wont u agree and chavs and gangsters
I would not want ALL police armed in the UK, but I feel that it is going to end up that way!
Personally, I believe we should never have licked Bush's ar$e, and let Iraq get on with what they wanted to do - worry about our own country's faults before others!
17 August 2005, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyFlow
No, I am not saying that (although shooting drug dealers does sound a good idea)! I disagree with shooting "illegals", but at the time, it was reported he ran from armed police (which may or may not be true in light of th eleaked information) - whatever country I was in, I would stop of the police were holding a gun to me - of course if the leaked intelligence is true, then there was a fundamental and massive **** up by the police, but I would not want the "shoot-to-kill" policy aborted because of this, I for one feel safer if suspected terrorist subjects are shot if believed to be in the act of terrorism - there will ALWAYS be mistakes, I believe in light of recent events, it is up to the police to make sure there are as little as possible! I should imaging if anything, there was 1 trigger happy marksman, and they are closing rankls to try to cover this up!
I would not want ALL police armed in the UK, but I feel that it is going to end up that way!
Personally, I believe we should never have licked Bush's ar$e, and let Iraq get on with what they wanted to do - worry about our own country's faults before others!
I would not want ALL police armed in the UK, but I feel that it is going to end up that way!
Personally, I believe we should never have licked Bush's ar$e, and let Iraq get on with what they wanted to do - worry about our own country's faults before others!
This whole episode makes the Police look like a bunch of clueless fcukwits which isn't doing anyone any good
.And before anyone starts I believe the Police, in General, are doing a great job in very difficult circumstances - but it's the whole "covering each others ****'s when we **** up" attitude that's the problem !
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