talizman

iTrader: (1)

I know mate, its me who keeps the old "positive thinking" going in the relationship.
We had actually decided not to bother with the tests, till it played on her mind, now she's unsure, which basically means that she wants to have the blood test....

talizman

iTrader: (1)

No history either side and we are both "fairly" young

Without being cocky or over confident, I'm certain that everything will be okay, which is part of the reason why I'm not scared of having the tests done.

As for enjoying the pregnancy? Just as well I am a patient guy, thats all I can say! Bloody wummin!

Lee247

The blood test is not risky tho', is it?
Believe me, Soulgirl is right, I worried all through my pregnancies, but was not prepared to risk them with tests. I've got two fantastic kids and no probs, saying that, giving birth was a bit of a bugger

Soulgirl

LOL - the bloody wummin bit will taste bitter in your mouth towards the end of the pregnancy but hey, you end up with a little you Perfic

talizman

iTrader: (1)

So isn't the AFP test the one that we have been offered then?

I was under the impression that it is optional and not a matter of course?

Soulgirl

No, the blood tests are not risky in the slightest... they are simple bloods drawn from the arm like any other normal blood test.

Giving birth is supposed to be a bugger.. makes you appreciate your children even more known who difficult it was to deliver them

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I'd imagine the experience would be a fart-fest of human excreted sounds!

Soulgirl

Perhaps they have changed their timetable then... at the end of the day it's there to test for certain problems such as spinabifida, twins and other neural tube defects - if you are not on the menu then it not necessary anyway

Lee247

Soulgirl, you never said a truer word
Childbirth is hell, pregnancy is a lovely thing to be enjoyed, you listening talizman

Soulgirl

LOL - yes, I spent my labour on all fours, with my bare **** in the air and my head buried in a pillow shouting fvck for 7 hours

Soulgirl

Not to be confused with the statement 'fvck me' LOL

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Lovely for who? HAve you met my wife? lol

She is hard work when she is un-pregnant!

Linda Blair hasn't got a look in with this lady!

little-ginge

I may be off the point completely...if I am I apologise for it is late and I am tired..!

Not having had kids (yet), I havent had to go thru these decisions; however, there still seems to be a big social stigma with regards to disabled babies particularly Downs Syndrome..


I know it can't be easy looking after a disabled child; however these infants should not be written off so easily and shold not be viewed as 'unhealthy' or 'damaged'.

Disabled children, for example, DS sufferers, can grow up to live long & fulfilled lives. Yes they may have some difficulties - such as 1 in 3 DS babies have heart problems, and yes they may be slower to develop in certain areas, but providing they are given the right support and opportunities they can develop independence and skills to help them carry out their lives relatively normally.

What I am trying to say, I suppose, is should things turn not turn out the way you hope, your child will still be that - your child. They will need and want your love & support and will in turn provide that to you. Don't worry about things... if your baby is 'normal' (sorry couldnt think of a more appropriate term) or not, you will love it and it will love you.

Going off on one slightly...

on a personal note,I think people with Down Syndrome are beautiful. They have a wonderful innocence to them which shines through. I've seen the cruelness of ppl ( some intentional, some not) when they catch sight of a DS sufferer - the downcast looks or the obvious pointing and laughing. When i see a someone with DS, I always make the point of catching their eye and smiling, and knowing that when I get a cheeky grin or a wave back I've connected with them.

It makes me so mad when ppl are cruel...

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Yes, that scenario was 9 months prior I think

Lee247

Yes. I recall coming out with some sweet sentiments to my beloved during childbirth
talizman, please, just enjoy and stop worrying.

Tiggs

wife side had a history so we had the test on all of ours...........had it been bad news we would not have had the child (unless something VERY unexpected changed our minds - which i doubt)

T

Soulgirl

Irrespective of what some might say about abortion, there is nothing worse for the child if they are far from normal. I probably sound very blase about that but at the end of the day it's true. Every person needs a level footing to launch into independence - any impedement only serves to make them sad?

We are on this earth for what can be measured as a fart really, why make it an unhappy fart

Leslie

I agree with STi 04 as well. I certainly don't admire Soulgirl's attitude towards the baby's life. I think it is selfish in the extreme, honest or not!

Best to leave it as it always was and cross your fingers that all is ok. If you get the wrong result from the test then you will be put into an even worse dilemma. If you elect to have a child then it is morally important that you have to be prepared to accept the consequences whatever they are when it is born.

We have reached the stage now when abortion is commonly used as a means of birth control let alone to ensure that all children have to be deemed healthy before they are allowed to be born. Its not too far removed from knocking a new born child on the head and throwing it in the bin if it does not suit the parents for some reason. Is this really a civilised way to go through life?

Les

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I appreciate your point Leslie, and we could go into a whole new debate about the wrongs and evils of abortion, which I'd rather not....

Suffice it to say, I personally believe that it is a mother's/family's choice whether they do it or not. Not many medical professionals will carry out such a procedure at this stage of pregnancy unless they are satisfied that there is a very good reason.

Such an emotive subject could really cause this to drag on and on.

I'm quite sure that many folk opt to have the tests so that even if the child is born with some kind of disability/abnormaility then at least it would give the parents time to prepare both mentally and practically.

Regacy

Congratulations, always the best news you can ever hear.
IMHO

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

If it really is affecting your missus, and bloods won't suffice, then pay for a nuchal <sp> scan. Didn't you post pics of the 12 week scan the other day? Usually its done then, but probably due to her age she didn't qualify for a free one.

Shame you wasn't informed at the time, since it could have been done then.

Its entirely natural to go over all health scenarios during pregnacy, fearing the worst is part of it too. But the test that carries a 1% chance of miscarriage will only be done if the harmless tests indicate anything other than normal.

The chances of a DS baby grow exponentially with age, especially over 35. Basically a 30 year old has a 500:1 chance, a 23 year old a 1500:1 chance (from memory - my missus was 30 when she had the scan, results was as if she were a 23 year old)

Lets say the average for a 27 year old is 1000:1, which is 0.1%, or in other words, she's 99.9% likely to have a non DS baby*

*disclaimer: My stats are from memoery, which isn't the best. I'm sure the real stats have been updated and are available on the net - look it up

mart360

Statistically the nuber of DS sufferers who reach adulthood is far less than the equivalent nomal child.

our biggest risk was MD, for those who dont know it it is a degenerative muscular disease with a very high rate of fatality for sufferers, interstingly enough the women are the carriers, and the males are the ones who the gene carries over to and causes the problems...

our dilemma was if the baby was a boy and my wife was a carrier of the gene, did we want to take the risk...

we based it on the principal of, if our baby was male, and had the gene, the prognosis of him reaching adulthood was slim, and would the quality of life he was going to lead be fair?? no one wants to watch there offspring perish..

if it was a girl, although she would be at no risk, the concern was that the gene would again be passed on again.

as you can see .. double dilemma

we made some difficult decisions and had way forward come what may!!

luckily the gene was not found in my ex wife, so we carried on.

my eldest is 13 now..

all i can say is its your choice whichever way you go,

however no matter what happens your baby will allways be loved by his / her parents...

M

03-CTR

i feel for your situation as the wife (now 37 yrs old) and i have been through it already with our 2nd (now 18 months).

the crazy thing about it is that what is considered a 'high risk' lies somewhere arround a few hundred to 1. this is a pretty tough one to call as a 1 in 200 chance of being born with say, downs is still miniscule imho. if someone said to me that i had a 1 in 200 chance of being shot in the head i'd feel pretty confident that i'd be ok yet we have to make a life/death decision based on these figures. our view was that we'd go ahead providing the figures didn't look too bad (a close friend had a 1 in 30 chance ) but would definitely abort if it was below 1 in 100.

if you're going to have a nuchal fold or any other kind of test then i'd make sure you talk it through with the wife and decide what you are most likely to do in the event that it doesn't look good. you might well change your mind later but attempting to rationalise now is a far better option that trying to when faced with a bum scenario. as with the masses that have these tests though most come out smiling and i hope you and the wife are the same

Regacy

I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe.

weapon69

Yes Leslie, of course it is

Markus

If you're both seriously worried, then take the test, yes, there could be a risk, but it might be a worthwhile risk.

Having children is a massive responsibility when they are not disabled, let alone when they are. Some people can cope with this, others cannot. Some say that you learn to cope, well, yes, that is true, but the question is, do you want to try and cope with it if it happened?

Me? No, I don't think I'd want to try and cope, partly for selfish reasons, partly for the fact that it'd also be hard for the child.

I think that if I found out our child was going to have DS or some other serious disability, that we'd have an abortion.

I know the pro's and con's of having a child with DS as my cousin has DS. She's great and we all love her, but we all know that it's very difficult sometimes, and from this point, I don't think I could or would want to cope with a disabled child. I'll probably sound evil and horrid for saying that, but at least I'm honest.

Soulgirl

What would play on my mind was how I would financially support a severely disabled baby/child. If it required 24 hour care I would not be able to work. That would then lead me down the path of benefits and hand outs. I don't like the thought of that and believe we should all provide for ourselves and our families.

It has been said that too many rely on abortions as a form of birth control yet more people rely on the government for money handouts, free homes, free cars without actually putting anything back into society except moans and groans that they are hard done by.

Selfish? Maybe. Self funding? Definitely.

03-CTR

agree.

i saw a program on the telly a while back about a family who had a 3rd child with a severe disability (can't recall what it was). it was hard as hell for the family and more so for the 2 older kids. it got to the point where they needed to provide 24 hour care which turned out to put such a strain on the family that they applied to have the child put into care (at a massive cost to the taxpayer).

i know money shouldn't be the sole reason for making decisions but given the whole picture i'd rather not walk into a situation that would overly compromise my relationship with my wife or eldest daughter. selfish maybe but having kids doesn't mean dedicating your whole existence to them.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Cheers for all the advice folks.

Some interesting, open and frank opinions, and I appreciate the honesty being shown in the face of such an emotive topic where it would be easy to lie about one's opinion in order to fall in line with what may be deemed "morally correct" or "socially acceptable".

We have decided that we will be having the blood test to ascertain whether high or low risk.

If we turn out to be high risk for whatever reason, then I will investigate further tests which carry less risk that the Amniocentesis test, like the detailed scan as mentioned previously that I never knew could be done.

Either way, we want to know as it will be the deciding factor in whether we can bring up a child with such needs as this.

Like some others above have mentioned, I may be deemed "bad" or "selfish" or whatever for taking this decision, but thats life I guess.

My wife and I are worried about how we will cope with a healthy, "normal" child never mind one that requires round the clock care and attention etc etc.

Plus, I don't fancy my kid passing on before I do, as mentioned above also.

Finance is another big element. We both need to work full time and I work shifts with 60-70+ hours per week, so on a practical basis, its just not do-able.

I want my child to have the best quality of life I can provide and I doubt my ability to provide such quality to a child with such needs.

rr_ww

Well as as they can ever be. They still have you as a parent!