Leslie

Yes talizman, no point in going into the abortion debate really I suppose. Was not the point of your post anyway. Its obvious what I think of it anyway.

I wonder whether the ability to do tests is a good or bad thing really. It can certainly cause hearbreaking dilemmas. I can see Soulgirl's point about not wanting to wind up on the benefits trail, but the answer in that case is to make absolutely sure that you don't get pregnant if you are unable to take full responsibility for the child. Birth control is comparatively well advanced these days, in earlier times most people used to abstain if they were not in a position to cope with the result if it all went wrong. All down to self control I suppose.

Weopon 69,

The other way to look at it is that if any one is going to start a new life, they should be well aware of all the dangers and be prepared to take full responsibility whatever happens rather than kill it for their own selfish reasons.

Congratulations and best of luck talizman.

Les

Soulgirl

Leslie, because the cost of living is so high in many areas then money is a very important factor. So much so that if every mother (or father) had to give up work to look after a child they would not be able to afford that so children would not be born. Procreation is a very important factor for human survival. However, a severely handicapped child is not going to help that survival rate - I'm just being practicable here. We are not bearing children just for ourselves, it's for the survival of the human race so to ensure the longevity of our race we need to be fit and healthy. Trouble is, and no it's not a bad thing, we have evolved to bear a conscience. Good in some ways but a holding-back bind in others.

It's true to say that most children born with severe handicaps both physical and mental, end up in care at the cost of the taxpayer at some point in their lives.

Leslie

Soulgirl,

You are right about the cost of living etc. of course and it is not cheap to bring up a child. That is why I mention the parent's responsiblity.

People used to manage in earlier times however when the standard of living was much lower and their wages were relatively smaller than nowadays. The parents got used to self sacrifice in order to give their children as good an upbringing as possible. If they were not prepared or able to do that then they did not have a child.

Procreation is important of course, but with the population of this country approaching some 70 million perhap's, even the government does not really know of course, how many more children do we need just at the moment? Just enough to keep going I suppose.

What I really do object to is the notion of selection of children according to their suitability either from the point of view of health or whatever. That really is a "Brave New World" attitude and is totally immoral to my mind. Exactly what we might expect in the future from a governing body which wants to clone and select children for their own purposes. That is not a very big step from what you were saying.

The next solution in the pipeline then is that of ridding society of elderly people. These days people can expect to live to be very fit and healthy at that sort of age. How would you feel Soulgirl when you reach that age and the men in white suits arrive at the door to take you to the "Happy Room" to end it all. Remember we are all travelling the same path in that respect. Life is just as precious as you get older.

We all get one chance at life, as far as we know anyway. If a life is started then that child has a right to the chance to live it, even if there is a chance he or she may not be perfect. We can't be certain of that health question anyway as was demonstrated earlier in this thread.

Human life is precious and in the case of a child, unborn or what, it is totally immoral to end it for the convenience of those who are responsible for it. What defence does that child have?

Les

Soulgirl

But as an older person I will still be able to contribute and earn money to survive. I will still have something to put into the pot of life - severely disabled cannot do this and probably don't have a quality of life measurable to others. If it comes to a point that I cannot survive on my own and need constant care then yes, please do show me the door to the happy room, for I do not want to be reliant on others to wipe my bum and provide for me.

This has gotten way off track from the original thread but I belive it's a natural progression.

There are no right or wrong answers - we all percieve 'life' in different ways

Leslie

As an older person what does it matter what you can or can't put into the "pot of life"? You have already done that during your working life. You should be relaxing and enjoying what time is left to you. Even if you are badly disabled you can still get a lot of enjoyment even if your horizons are more restricted. I should know that for sure!

Yes of course we all see life differently as we have a right to do as long as it does not adversely or unfairly affect those who are not so fortunate.

Les

Soulgirl

It matters a lot. Just because you reach 65 doesn't mean you have to give up And the way the government is pushing things, by the time I reach 65 they would have put up the retirement age to 75 or more anyway just to ensure there is enough money in the pot to pay for those that don't contribute yet draw from 'the pot'

David Lock

My healthy 17 year old lad has quite a birth mark on his upper leg from when the needle pierced his leg when drawing fluid from pregnant mum!! Of course they are anxious to miss the embryo's head but not supposed to hook him elsewhere.....

Leslie

Soulgirl,

By then they will probably have done away with retirement altogether! I think that would be grossly wrong as it is to raise the retirement age as they have done. After 40 odd years of grafting at work and paying all those taxes and National Insurance I think everyone is entitled to be able to jack it all in and enjoy a bit of peace to do what they want until they turn up their toes. Just look at what the privileged thieving so and so's are going to retire on by virtue of your working life and accept that you are at least due for a rest. Too much exploitment of their workforce by the big firms these days because of their utter greed.

And I am not even a socialist!

Les

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Well, we had the tests done and they came back low risk

I'm glad we did them as it gives us piece of mind and stops us wondering "what if"

Seems the whole pregnancy/parenthood thing is loaded with difficult decisions and grey hair inducing dilemmas!

Leslie

Good news talizman, best wishes to you both for the rest of the pregnancy and birth.

Look forward to 18 years of trouble on your hands.

Les

scoobypreza

yep thats about right!!

But its all worth it!

Its been the best and worst thing all at once for me!
Never worried so much in my life but never had such unconditional love either.

So gald your tests were all good.
Hope you can enjoy the rest of the pregnacy now and get ready for your new adventure!!

cath