Cyprus Plane Crash??
15 August 2005, 11:35 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by Brit_in_Japan
No it doesn't. The aircraft would likely have been on autopilot. It's destination was Athens so it's flight path would have taken it along some air corridor close to Athens airport. If the pilots were incapacitated then it would have just continued along it's pre-programmed flight path. Maybe when it got to the end of it's programmed route the autopilot switched off and in the absence of any controlling input it went into a shallow dive and hit the first mountain it found.
Or maybe if the pilots thought they were being overcome by anoxia they put autopilot into a shallow dive in the hope that they would recover consciousness at lower altitude and regain control of the aircraft.
I'm sure the F16's would have been prepared for the worst if they had thought terrorists had taken over the aircraft, but from what we know nothing points to them having taken such action. If they were going to take it out of the sky, they would have done it over the sea, not waited until it got close to Athens.
Or maybe if the pilots thought they were being overcome by anoxia they put autopilot into a shallow dive in the hope that they would recover consciousness at lower altitude and regain control of the aircraft.
I'm sure the F16's would have been prepared for the worst if they had thought terrorists had taken over the aircraft, but from what we know nothing points to them having taken such action. If they were going to take it out of the sky, they would have done it over the sea, not waited until it got close to Athens.
Simon
15 August 2005, 12:24 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Reality
On the News this morning.
This plane was grounded a month ago over concerns about it pressurisation / Oxygen systems. It was a "Budget Carrier" and there seems to be suggestion that maintenance could be an Issue
.
This plane was grounded a month ago over concerns about it pressurisation / Oxygen systems. It was a "Budget Carrier" and there seems to be suggestion that maintenance could be an Issue
.Hmmm, when was the last budget carrier you've been on that had leather seats?: http://www.flyhelios.com/about_fleet.php Journalists making stuff up again I suspect
Although they only had that particular plane for just over a year.
15 August 2005, 04:19 PM
#38
Originally Posted by ALi-B
Hmmm, when was the last budget carrier you've been on that had leather seats?:
15 August 2005, 09:58 PM
#39
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The guy who claimed to have received a text from someone on board has been arrested by Greek Police apparently?
It does seem very odd that something knocked out, or killed the pilots instantly - but then a while later the F16 pilots claimed to have seen 2 people fighting the controls?..
Must have been horrific for those onboard
It does seem very odd that something knocked out, or killed the pilots instantly - but then a while later the F16 pilots claimed to have seen 2 people fighting the controls?..
Must have been horrific for those onboard
You know.......the bird 
15 August 2005, 10:50 PM
#44
Originally Posted by Petem95
The guy who claimed to have received a text from someone on board has been arrested by Greek Police apparently?
It does seem very odd that something knocked out, or killed the pilots instantly - but then a while later the F16 pilots claimed to have seen 2 people fighting the controls?..
Must have been horrific for those onboard
It does seem very odd that something knocked out, or killed the pilots instantly - but then a while later the F16 pilots claimed to have seen 2 people fighting the controls?..
Must have been horrific for those onboard
16 August 2005, 12:26 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by GC8
.....you dont think that it ran out of petrol do you.....?
Simon
Simon
Simon
16 August 2005, 08:26 AM
#46
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With the latest info it looks as though there was either a rapid decompression, or even a slow one and the cockpit alarm did not work so the pilots were caught out, or more likely the pilot's oxygen supply was not working even though the passengers' was. The captain may have gone back to get a portable supply but was overcome by anoxia. They don't appear to have initiated an emergency descent anyway.
I bet there will be some tricky questions for the aircraft operators eventually!
Les
I bet there will be some tricky questions for the aircraft operators eventually!
Les
16 August 2005, 09:15 AM
#48
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F16's were allegedly scrambled as the plane wasn't answering the radio. (Emergency security response plan)
Pilots have to manually grab the oxygen mask, where cabin is automatic. Slow depressurisation/no pressurisation at all on climb out, *plus* no cockpit warning (or ignored - "this plane keeps having a false warning", could have meant auto-deployment in the back, while the cabin crew just slipped out without noticing - outrageous fortune, but it may be possible to construct a plausible scenario.
I have to say the fuel doesn't make sense... short of destination, plus they carry reserve anyhow. Probably a case of "lies to children". Possibly the autopilot hit a waypoint, and changed something? Possibly the passengers managed to disengage.. pure speculation. If they were on oxygen in the back they'd have had to disconnect to reach the cockpit.. giving them a short while before they too keeled over.
As for the door.. I was sat on a flight last night thinking about being in that situation.. there's a bottle of medical oxygen in the front left cupboard on an A320.. portable breathability, and a potentially useful battering ram? I'm sure most aircraft carry one somewhere.
I *REALLY* doubt there's an axe on board.. wouldn't be too difficult to overpower a steward and get hold of that now would it? (Of course I'm probably wrong...)
Bottom line is we will probably never know. It's a tragedy, and very sad. Air travel is quite safe, but when things go wrong it tends to be catastrophic.
Pilots have to manually grab the oxygen mask, where cabin is automatic. Slow depressurisation/no pressurisation at all on climb out, *plus* no cockpit warning (or ignored - "this plane keeps having a false warning", could have meant auto-deployment in the back, while the cabin crew just slipped out without noticing - outrageous fortune, but it may be possible to construct a plausible scenario.
I have to say the fuel doesn't make sense... short of destination, plus they carry reserve anyhow. Probably a case of "lies to children". Possibly the autopilot hit a waypoint, and changed something? Possibly the passengers managed to disengage.. pure speculation. If they were on oxygen in the back they'd have had to disconnect to reach the cockpit.. giving them a short while before they too keeled over.
As for the door.. I was sat on a flight last night thinking about being in that situation.. there's a bottle of medical oxygen in the front left cupboard on an A320.. portable breathability, and a potentially useful battering ram? I'm sure most aircraft carry one somewhere.
I *REALLY* doubt there's an axe on board.. wouldn't be too difficult to overpower a steward and get hold of that now would it? (Of course I'm probably wrong...)
Bottom line is we will probably never know. It's a tragedy, and very sad. Air travel is quite safe, but when things go wrong it tends to be catastrophic.
16 August 2005, 09:20 AM
#49
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A work colleague of mine was travelling on the plane.
Paris Demetriou was travelling with his fiance on holiday to greece.
He was an excellent enginner and will be trully missed. Farewell Paris may God rest your soul.
Paris Demetriou was travelling with his fiance on holiday to greece.
He was an excellent enginner and will be trully missed. Farewell Paris may God rest your soul.
16 August 2005, 09:35 AM
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There are reports of Helios passengers complaining that the air-conditioning on previous flights had been mal-functioning, some reported it was too hot, others that it was too cold and the flight attendents had to pass out blankets. There are also (unsubstantiated) reports that one of the aircraft's air-conditioning packs was unserviceable. This in itself does not mean it was unsafe to fly, but it might mean that some flight restrictions were necessary. Note that "air-conditioning" systems on aircraft are nothing like those in cars or offices, they also provide cabin pressurization amongst other things.
Whatever caused the depressurisation, and whether fast or slow, there should still have been enough time for the flight crew to get their oxygen masks on.
Whatever caused the depressurisation, and whether fast or slow, there should still have been enough time for the flight crew to get their oxygen masks on.
Last edited by Brit_in_Japan; 16 August 2005 at 09:39 AM.
17 August 2005, 01:35 AM
#51
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The same kind of thing nearly happened before on at least one occasion on a 737. In this case they were lucky that the co-pilot did not lose consciousness but it shows how easily and quickly the captain did. The flightdeck door was open for cabin crew to assist on this occasion (or at least try to).
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_501410.pdf
The report gives a good description of emergency descent procedures and use of the emergency oxygen equipment, as well as Hypoxia itself.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_501410.pdf
The report gives a good description of emergency descent procedures and use of the emergency oxygen equipment, as well as Hypoxia itself.
17 August 2005, 08:39 AM
#52
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A slow loss of pressurisation is more dangerous that a rapid one. With a rapid one there is plenty of evidence that is has happened, loud bang, whooshing noises, misting up etc.
Anoxia is insiduous in that as is takes effect the average person will feel euphoria and not even realise what is happening until they lose control of their actions. Its a bit like getting pissed! If the cabin pressure warning had failed the crew may never have known what had happened since they cannot see the passenger's oxygen masks dropping down. The crew carry their own proper oxygen face masks ready for immediate use and as I explained earlier the operating pilot should either have his mask hanging on his headset or be wearing it depending on the altitude they were flying at. Even that would not help if it was hanging and he was overcome by hypoxia before he knew about the failure.
I have been in the decompression chamber many times doing both anoxia runs to help me to recognise the symptoms or explosive decompressions for training purposes. It is a real eye opener to realise how it can overcome you without you even knowing it was happening.
Les
Anoxia is insiduous in that as is takes effect the average person will feel euphoria and not even realise what is happening until they lose control of their actions. Its a bit like getting pissed! If the cabin pressure warning had failed the crew may never have known what had happened since they cannot see the passenger's oxygen masks dropping down. The crew carry their own proper oxygen face masks ready for immediate use and as I explained earlier the operating pilot should either have his mask hanging on his headset or be wearing it depending on the altitude they were flying at. Even that would not help if it was hanging and he was overcome by hypoxia before he knew about the failure.
I have been in the decompression chamber many times doing both anoxia runs to help me to recognise the symptoms or explosive decompressions for training purposes. It is a real eye opener to realise how it can overcome you without you even knowing it was happening.
Les
17 August 2005, 08:52 AM
#53
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I flew on helios from bristol to laranca and back in 2001 ......I found it ace,giving loads of sweets to my kids,also playing greek music when boarding,it to had leather seats, I counld'nt fault the airline...jon
17 August 2005, 08:59 AM
#54
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I never really thought of it before but cabin depressurisation would have been a very serious problem with Concorde. With a cruise altitude of 60,000ft, the pilots would have had very little time to get their masks on, and a fast descent to 10,000ft would have been exciting! Does anyone know if one of the Concorde pilots always had to wear his mask during cruise?
17 August 2005, 11:36 AM
#55
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It was certainly part of RAF transport regulations for carrying passengers above 35K feet I think, I cant remember the actual heights for hanging the mask or actually wearing it by the operating pilot. As I understood it, it was part of general air regulations which we always followed on the VC10. In this case it should certainly apply to the Concorde crews.
Les
Les
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