davegtt

Yup, cant argue with that. All the effort that went into that research, all the brainy scientists etc could have all been working on a cure for Aids or Cancer. But ohhh no we have to find a way of creating, well something wierd.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

The Zohan

Pretty sure Goodyear makes a tyre that does not go down when punctured - wer are screwed in the 'tar-ra-then' sense!

I must say some of my favorite actresses are lesbians and i have a collection of their movies tucked away out of reach of the kids and inlaws.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

You need to open you mind to the bigger picture. This is where the cure for those diseases are. It's about the lessons learned with genetics.

davegtt

No I understand stuff like cloning would be essential for bone marrow diseases and transplants etc etc... I just dont think all the effort of using 2 women genetic stuff is nessesary. Surely theyre gaining nothing from that. Theyve got no further in that sense to what was capable with a blokes and a womans?

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

I don't know what the ultimate use could be as I'm not up on it or qualified in any way. I would guess for example it could be used to eliminate a defective gene that is carried by males etc. It's also a technique where they can produce an embryo from just one female's egg and use her own cells to fertilise it. This means in the production of organs the body would not reject the new organ as the cells are identical to that of the original persons. Stuff along those lines anyway.

Patt@firstime

but not the wife

The Zohan

LOL!


No, would you like back the box set featuring 'Yo Momma'

pwhittle

Interesting, but of course scientific developments don't go anywhere without public consent. Look back at Tomorrow's World - we're supposed to have robots in our houses doing mundane jobs. The science is there, ok the cost is high, but if people actually wanted it, the cost would have come down due to demand (watched I robot last night - top film). Who drives a Sinclair C5 to work?
You can buy a fridge which will re-order your food when you're running low, but who has one? Who wants one?
Straying from the point a little.
My daughter is disabled, and although we're yet to meet much discrimination, it's clear some people view us as selfish. Would anybody choose to have a menatally + physically disabled child? Beleive me, you wouldn't. I run my Scoob for escapism to stay sane.
I've heard examples from friends in the same position who have been told by people in the street that they shouldn't take 'children like that' out, as they cause offence. Unbelievable. If someone said that in front of me, given the lack of legislation, I'd belt them one. I really hope nobody on here thinks that way, I respect most SNetters.
It's not just children that are cruel, bigotted adults are far worse. I could give example of disabled children being denied medical treatment as a doctor thought it should be given to more deserving children. But instead if getting wound up about it, I write to MPs, embarass hospital trusts, and raise money for appropriate charities.
Whatever the wrights and wrongs in these cases, I just hope the kids are brought up in a loving environment. Who are we to say that they won't?

Markus

Let's take an example:

A chav couple, you know the type, the people we wish did not exist and are a blight on good honest tax payers as they claim benefit for everything under the sun.

Then you have a nice, middle of the road, lesbian couple, very friendly, don't scrounge from the benefit system, pay taxes like the rest of us, in other words, the same as you and me apart from thier sexual orientation.

Now, which of the two couples above would you prefer to have a child? The chav couple, who you know *will* use it as an excuse to claim more benefit and there's a pretty good chance the kid will grow up to make mummy and daddy proud, in other words, another scum sucking chav that we don't need.
Or would you prefer the lesbian couple to have a child, knowing that, more than likely it would be raised properly, and become a good citizen.

I know which couple I'd choose to have a child out of the two mentioend above.

I have a friend who is a lesbian, and she happens to have a daughter, who is, if I recall correctly 12 or 13 (I'm very bad with ages ) and she's a great kid, very well adjusted and has not been "queered" by her mum. She knows that her mum is different from other mums and she knows why and she does not have a problem with it. This is what I base my opinions on, something I've experienced. She knows right from wrong, isn't a chav, and I'd very much doubt anyone could tell that she didn't come from a "normal" family.

On the subject of bullying, well, yes, kids are cruel, vicious and evil and if a child is in *any* way different from the norm they will be bullied, so I don't think a child with gay parents would be bullied any more than a black/yellow/brown/green/taupe colored child, or a muslim child, or, as said, a child who is not "normal" in the eyes of the majority of the kids in the school playground.

Reality

Neither.

Where's your Pal's daughter's Dad and how does he feel about the situation?

How does the daughter feel about her Dad ?

Has Mum got a new Long Term girlfriend acting as Dad (or is that Mum's Job)

Just Interested to get the full story.

davegtt

Markus, but we dont HAVE to choose between 1 or the other so most of your post is irrelevant, I wouldnt choose either although to raise a child yes a well suited lesbian couple who seem sensible people could well raise a child just aswell.. Thats not the debate.... We are talking about normality and natures course. the reasons for and against IVF treatment given to homosexuals....

Its nice to hear of someone else who has experienced children growing up in this type of environment.... Helps give an insight although I still dont agree with it. Nothing I can do about it, apart from hold my own personal opinion on the subject

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

What's it like in the perfect world?

Reality

How would I know ?

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

My point is it's easy to pick whole in anybodies lifestyle. Nothing is perfect but if things are done with the best intentions then there is a good chnce things wil be a success. Single mothers bring up children and do a great job in some cases and not in others. The same goes for any family unit. If 2 is better than 1 then how is having two women in the family unit going to be any worse than having one there? You can create a situation where the kid is going to be fukt up I agree but you can do the same in a 2.4 kids 'regular' family. Plenty of children grow up in abusive homes.

Reality

Having two Mums or One Mum and a female Dad is more likely to screw you up than having 1 Mum and 1 Dad. Two Mums can maybe bring up a girl without too much trouble - but two Mums are gonna struggle with a boy and turn him into a well balanced Man.

The relationships between Kids and their parents is very important.

I go back to my point about Kids being the important thing here and how they aint some sort of experiment / play thing.

TheBigMan

Exactly.

TelBoy

Reality - justify "more likely", please, other than with more of your opinions. Can you???

Huxley Chick

Who the f**k has a child as an experiment or a play-thing?


Women generally want children because they want to bring another life into this world, not as some sort of trophy!

davegtt

why should here, every single person who has posted on this thread has expressed an opinion, thats what its been about. I dont see you justifying anything youve put down apart from your own opinion or belief.

Reality

Besides - Where's Markus gone with his Perfect Lesbian Mum ?

I am trully interested if he's got the full facts about how this Kid is - Yeah She may well Look "Well Balanced" - I've seen how kids can be when their parents have been split up through hetrosexual interference - Many of them hate the person that split up their parents (and indeed hate the parent that is "responsible" for the split).

Maybe when split up by Lesbians it's better for the Kid.

Educate me Markus ?

TelBoy

Yes i can, Dave. There are kids out there LIVING this lifestyle. It's not fiction, it's not conjecture, it's OUT there. And by and large it works. Well. Hence my frustration at all this "well it MUST be wrong" attitude. You just don't KNOW.

TheBigMan

Bullying and blatant p!sstalking at school - it WILL happen.

Whispers/sly comments from people.

Possible future resentment of "parents" cos of the above.

Singled out.

Feeling of being different and/or inadequate.


Yes, it may be better to have 2 same sex parents than to be abused as a child - however when we get to the point where there are NO male/femal couples ready to take on children I'll consider the same sex parent scenario.

As for IVF, it's a no go. It's an utter pisstake, incredibly selfish all "want want want" I "want" a baby want want want.

TelBoy

Big Man, are YOU a father? Honestly?

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

What about single mothers though? Are all the kids brought up in a single parent family going to be screwed up?

you're not in the real world mate. This is out there and happening. There are kids out there with a mum and a dad. Mum is a drunk and dad touches them at night before beating them up so they don't tell anybody. You can't say what is going to happen unless as I said before we are judging everything and everyone on a 'perfect' basis.

davegtt

How can anyone defend the idea that if 2 women or 2 men raised a child that the child most probably wouldnt grow up confused about who they should be and with their own sexuality?

Its beyond me... Its like 2 devoted Catholics raising a child. The child will grow into a devoted catholic 9x out of 10. no? being raised in that type of environment will rub off. the right way or the wrong way...

thats how I see it anyhow

Huxley Chick

That happens anyway, whether you wear glasses, have a disability, have different colour skin etc, etc, it's what kids do.

With the exception of the 'resentment of parents' bit, I felt ALL of the above at school as a result of being diabetic. You deal with it & at the end of the day it can make you a stronger person.

Reality

Normal World

1 Mum 1 Dad 1 Kid

Lezza/Poofta World

2 Mums 1 Kid
2 Dads 1 Kid

Kid from Lezza/Poofta World wonders why Kids from Normal World are different to him.

There's an increased chance that the Kid in the Lezza/Poofta world is gonna be screwd - if all other influences are the same (**** househould, one part of couple ***** off etc etc etc).

That maybe too simplistic for you - but it works for me !

TelBoy

Dave, sexuality is waaay more complicated than that. It's *totally* different from religion. Don't even begin to confuse the two, they're worlds apart mate.

TheBigMan

Hi. No need to ask me "honestly". No, i am not a father. However do not use this as a reason to say I'm not qualified to be giving input here.

I probably remember being a child alot more than you do, and for me, it is the CHILDREN I worry about here - not some modern day couple trying to put icing on their selfish little cake.

If I were gay (no comments plz!!), I would not have a child in a single sex parent scenario - even if I really wanted to - i wouldn't wish it on a child.