lesbians and IVF....
17 August 2005, 04:07 PM
#241
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 16,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Reality
And you think I'm trying to live in the perfect world.
A noble, but futile, cause.
ps You stop Bullies by hitting them harder - This I know from personal experience
A noble, but futile, cause.
ps You stop Bullies by hitting them harder - This I know from personal experience
17 August 2005, 04:08 PM
#242
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Next door to the WiFi connection
Posts: 16,293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by STi wanna Subaru
why because you can't accept it as normal? that's your take on it
A male and male (or female and female) falling in love and creating a child is not normal, in fact its impossible, it goes against all of natures ways.... only made possible by mad scientist...
there is no way you can argue that fact.... simple
17 August 2005, 04:09 PM
#243
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TelBoy
Again, please substantiate "many". You HAVE to separate your own prejudices from the facts with things like this. You have to. It's not all about what The Sun says.
I'm not going to reply to waffle like this. It's a debate, not a personal atack. So leave this type of behaviour for others eh.
17 August 2005, 04:11 PM
#245
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't you think lesbian or homo parents would encourage 'their' offspring to adopt the gay lifestyle though? I would say it would be almost inevitable that they would try to indoctrinate the child into their culture as a 'natural' parenting instinct. After all, they are normal parents, right?
17 August 2005, 04:11 PM
#246
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 16,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by davegtt
Did I say it was a choice... no.... correct religion is a choice but its not always easy, it can be very confusing with views thrown upon you at a young age when you are too young to think for yourself. Hence by the time someone hits an age to think for themselves theyve already had something drummed into them and can be a confusing time....
Im not saying the 2 points are the same Im using it as an example for how someone brought up in a different family to what the average joe of brition is brought up into....
Do you think 99% of Muslims thought about and choose their religion? no they didnt. They can choose not to follow it but most do simply because of their upbringing IMO
Im not saying the 2 points are the same Im using it as an example for how someone brought up in a different family to what the average joe of brition is brought up into....
Do you think 99% of Muslims thought about and choose their religion? no they didnt. They can choose not to follow it but most do simply because of their upbringing IMO
I'm sure my parents wherehaving sex in the house when i was a child growing up. Was I aware of this? No. Did they bring me in to show me what a man does to a woman? No. Do you think a gay couple and going to walk around licking each others muffs or discussing double ended ******? No.
It can't be compared to religion IMHO.
17 August 2005, 04:13 PM
#247
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jasey@Work
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by STi wanna Subaru
No I'm living in a world where you have to try and solve it's problems by accepting what actually goes on.
Where do you draw the line with your acceptance of things because they happen ?
17 August 2005, 04:14 PM
#248
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The land of the pink pig
Posts: 21,623
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by unclebuck
Don't you think lesbian or homo parents would encourage 'their' offspring to adopt the gay lifestyle though? I would say it would be almost inevitable that they would try to indoctrinate the child into their culture as a 'natural' parenting instinct. After all, they are normal parents, right?
My parents were heterosexual, but I was never encouraged to follow their path. I don't think they would care what my sexuality was as long as I was happy - isn't that what everyone wants, to be happy?
17 August 2005, 04:14 PM
#249
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Next door to the WiFi connection
Posts: 16,293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
STi, how short sighted are you exactly? you never saw you father walk in the kitchen from work and kiss your mother most days? or the other way round, or walk about holding hands.... whilst on holiday walk down the street your mother and father hold hands with you in tow? Since you believe the average gay couple who can be just as much in love and lead a normal life style, do you not think that they might kiss each other in their own home or hold hands whilst walking down the street?
17 August 2005, 04:14 PM
#250
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 16,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TheBigMan
Oooh check you out Mr 2006.
Just because somebody doesn't agree with this does NOT make them small minded. Also, it doesn't make you modern, fashionable or hip just becasue you're on a forum harping on about how small minded people can be disagreeing with your modern and trendy opinions.
Yes, user "relaity" is hardly discreet and we do not agree on the reasons - however we do on the conclusion.
Just because somebody doesn't agree with this does NOT make them small minded. Also, it doesn't make you modern, fashionable or hip just becasue you're on a forum harping on about how small minded people can be disagreeing with your modern and trendy opinions.
Yes, user "relaity" is hardly discreet and we do not agree on the reasons - however we do on the conclusion.
The point being is that the issues you put forward would come from people with your views. people who can accept it would not cause any problems for the child and family. That's the reason it's small minded IMHO.
17 August 2005, 04:15 PM
#251
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TelBoy
BigMan - where do you get your facts about "many" from then? Simple question.
That's merely your prejudiced opinion. Prove me wrong.
That's merely your prejudiced opinion. Prove me wrong.
So, I can imagine that "many" would be the case. unless of course, you can prove me wrong??? If not, it ends up being this - an opinion based debate.
So, no name calling or accusation of small mindedness, prejudices are necessary thanks.
17 August 2005, 04:16 PM
#252
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Next door to the WiFi connection
Posts: 16,293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
STi, its nice of you to join in a sensible debate 10 pages in and call people small minded because they have a differing opinion to yourself.... I suggest you go find out what debating is all about.
17 August 2005, 04:18 PM
#253
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 16,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by davegtt
What??? I can accept it, its normal for a white and black person to fall in love and create a child, after all its only a male and female human being. ITS NORMAL.... Im not racist so dont even suggest it. (not saying you did btw before we get off track)
A male and male (or female and female) falling in love and creating a child is not normal, in fact its impossible, it goes against all of natures ways.... only made possible by mad scientist...
there is no way you can argue that fact.... simple
A male and male (or female and female) falling in love and creating a child is not normal, in fact its impossible, it goes against all of natures ways.... only made possible by mad scientist...
there is no way you can argue that fact.... simple
17 August 2005, 04:20 PM
#254
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The land of the pink pig
Posts: 21,623
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by STi wanna Subaru
Yeah but the viewpoint was at some time that it wasn't normal. Why should a same sex family be any different? If the child grows up loved and cared for then that's what surely matters. If other people accept it then there's no problem.
17 August 2005, 04:21 PM
#255
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: God's promised land
Posts: 80,907
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The facts are, unless we're ALL not being told something, that same sex parent families can and DO raise kids successfully. Because they WANT the kids, not for some media sound-byte about wanting to appear normal. No same sex parents have, to the best of my knowledge, admitted the facade thing as their primary objective, so on that basis, "many" is simply unfounded.
17 August 2005, 04:22 PM
#256
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jasey@Work
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by STi wanna Subaru
If the child grows up loved and cared for then that's what surely matters.
17 August 2005, 04:23 PM
#257
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 16,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Reality
Oh well in that case - let's legalise paedophiles - It goes on - there's nothing wrong with it - They're just attracted to young people.
Where do you draw the line with your acceptance of things because they happen ?
Where do you draw the line with your acceptance of things because they happen ?
17 August 2005, 04:23 PM
#258
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Huxley Chick
Why?
My parents were heterosexual, but I was never encouraged to follow their path. I don't think they would care what my sexuality was as long as I was happy - isn't that what everyone wants, to be happy?
My parents were heterosexual, but I was never encouraged to follow their path. I don't think they would care what my sexuality was as long as I was happy - isn't that what everyone wants, to be happy?
I just can't see that kind of upbringing being encouraged with same sex parenting.
Still I supose in this caring, sharing, new labour world which we are all being forced to accept, this sort of traditionally 'normal' upbringing will be banned before long anyway.
17 August 2005, 04:23 PM
#259
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by STi wanna Subaru
do I get a sash or medal of some sort?
The point being is that the issues you put forward would come from people with your views. people who can accept it would not cause any problems for the child and family. That's the reason it's small minded IMHO.
The point being is that the issues you put forward would come from people with your views. people who can accept it would not cause any problems for the child and family. That's the reason it's small minded IMHO.
I'm simply doing a catchphrase "saying what I see".
Kid with gay parents??? Bullies would have a field day, along with small minded whispering adults.
My concern is for the child here. I would not, in any way support the bullies or the whisperers. so, please do not put me in this category just because I do not agree with you. Cheers.
17 August 2005, 04:23 PM
#260
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Next door to the WiFi connection
Posts: 16,293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by STi wanna Subaru
Yeah but the viewpoint was at some time that it wasn't normal. Why should a same sex family be any different? If the child grows up loved and cared for then that's what surely matters. If other people accept it then there's no problem.
it wasnt classed as normal because of racism, thats been drawn out fro the dark ages and seen as fine now. Just like Homosexuality was not seen as normal... but in actual FACT it ISNT normal but its accepted.... and it ISNT normal for them to bear a child....
whats accepted and whats normal are different... you are arguing the fact that in time it could be accepted into society. but it doesnt make it NORMAL....
Last edited by davegtt; 17 August 2005 at 04:25 PM.
17 August 2005, 04:27 PM
#263
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Next door to the WiFi connection
Posts: 16,293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yup, we're at a draw, everyone has expressed their opinions, nobody is going to change them...
shake hands and look for another thread to have a go at each other about
shake hands and look for another thread to have a go at each other about
17 August 2005, 04:28 PM
#264
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The normal not normal thing is a play on words.
Homosexuality is not natural nor is it how we are designed to be. There is no argument otherwise.
However, people do not choose to be this way, and it certainly adds something different into society, much of it positive. However, lines have to be drawn when they are affecting others'.
Homosexuality is not natural nor is it how we are designed to be. There is no argument otherwise.
However, people do not choose to be this way, and it certainly adds something different into society, much of it positive. However, lines have to be drawn when they are affecting others'.
17 August 2005, 04:29 PM
#265
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The land of the pink pig
Posts: 21,623
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by unclebuck
I expect you were. I expect you had little kitchen sets and dollys etc, and you dressed up in mum's clothes and stuff like that. A normal upbringing. Just like boys would have had toy soldiers, bikes, and footballs etc, etc.
.
.
17 August 2005, 04:30 PM
#266
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Next door to the WiFi connection
Posts: 16,293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big man, yes I understand but we all have a basic understanding of what normality is it might have hidden depths but normal as in the way of a functioning relationship
man + woman = normal
woman + woman = abnormal
man + man = abnormal
Im not saying theyre freaks of society or anything, like I said earlier I have nothing against them but its not how nature intends for a human being to bear a child and give it a BALENCED upbringing.
man + woman = normal
woman + woman = abnormal
man + man = abnormal
Im not saying theyre freaks of society or anything, like I said earlier I have nothing against them but its not how nature intends for a human being to bear a child and give it a BALENCED upbringing.
17 August 2005, 04:30 PM
#267
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 16,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by davegtt
STi, how short sighted are you exactly? you never saw you father walk in the kitchen from work and kiss your mother most days? or the other way round, or walk about holding hands.... whilst on holiday walk down the street your mother and father hold hands with you in tow? Since you believe the average gay couple who can be just as much in love and lead a normal life style, do you not think that they might kiss each other in their own home or hold hands whilst walking down the street?
It's very rare to find the 'perfect' environment out there for a child to be raised. There are many situations that children are brought up in and I just think this is not going to be any worse than what thousands of children face at this moment in time.
17 August 2005, 04:31 PM
#268
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jasey@Work
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Huxley Chick
I also used to play with my brothers Mechano, his train set & Lego
You see the problems with same sex parenting
Last edited by Reality; 17 August 2005 at 04:36 PM. Reason: She's even got me spelling it wrong ;)
17 August 2005, 04:33 PM
#269
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 16,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by davegtt
yup, we're at a draw, everyone has expressed their opinions, nobody is going to change them...
shake hands and look for another thread to have a go at each other about
shake hands and look for another thread to have a go at each other about
wasted far too much time.... gonna have to work a bit late now
17 August 2005, 04:36 PM
#270
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Next door to the WiFi connection
Posts: 16,293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sti, again I see where your point comes from, not saying your right nor wrong, but I disagree (and I can but it doesnt mean Im right nor wrong either) but IMO where you said
Why should they? thats going back into the dark ages if they did that, your saying its socially acceptable for gays (and I agree fully, Im in full support of it) but they shouldnt have to hide anything from a child in its upbringing. Thats saying there is something wrong with what theyre doing, most gays dont believe there is anything wrong in it hence they wouldnt hide it from a child.
And I do believe it will have an effect on the childs upbringing. Confusion of what theyre supposed to be sexuality wise etc.... Confusiion goes on when being brought up in a "normal" family alone and I think it will be 10x worse with a gay couple....
again thats my opinion and I do have first hand experience of seeing it happen too (not me btw read my first post in this thread)
I would guess though that the parents in the case of a same sex couple may leave that side of their relationship out of sight of the child.
And I do believe it will have an effect on the childs upbringing. Confusion of what theyre supposed to be sexuality wise etc.... Confusiion goes on when being brought up in a "normal" family alone and I think it will be 10x worse with a gay couple....
again thats my opinion and I do have first hand experience of seeing it happen too (not me btw read my first post in this thread)