DocJock

My auld mate dba has already replied, so I don't need to.

Cheers Dave

moses

im so sorry dbau are actually wrong, if u read the quran, islam started from adam u know what islam is, it means submission to the will of God , thats what islam means, and also arabs werent all muslims but became pagans as so did the jews as God give them the religion of monothiesm some transgressed and worshipped the golden calf after moses had gone to the mountain, that way arabs the sons of abraham and also jews went astray and jews started worshipping baal like they did with the golden calf and also arabs started pagan religions like worshipping so many idols

originally the religion of islam has been their since the beginning in the time of the prophet it was a fulfillment to the covenant of abraham that a prophet shall come from the seed of abraham the last prophet, only man who can unite the world the arab muslims and christians and the jews

jews dont except jesus
christians say jesus is God and the begotton son and dont accept prophet mohammad

islam is the only religion where both can come to common terms and believe jesus was the messiah and not God and wasnt cruficified , the religion of monothiesm in its purest form no idols and no God who rests and dies and gets hungry.


jews and arabs had the one God from the beginning

who r the arabs and jews the seed of adam as we all r the original muslim

and pls read the the quran and also read the torah the religion of judaism isnt in it, it was created afterwards

i will give u an example

i live in glasgow and outsiders will come by and pass and say their glaswegians and follow some kind of one God religion

same happened with judaism, they were known as the hebrews who we call muslims in the quran God classes the jews as muslims meaning worshippers of the one God.

12 tribes of israel, one guy called judah had the most powerful tribe, during the wars so many children of israel aka jacob got killed and were weak, the ruling tribe was the tride of judah and they lived in a place called judea, see palestine was a mix of different cities, tribes were separated

and thats how they got the name jew and judaism and no pagans understood the invisible God theory.

so they called them they follow some kind of religion of judaism, which wasnt true but they followed monothiesm translating islam and muslim.

doesnt say isaac were leaders and so was ishmael, they were humble servants of Allah, they were their to serve and not to rule or conquer anyone, not in history they did this.

during those times their were the children of lot as well the nephew of the prophet abraham , and also abraham had a wife called keturah another arab , he had an egytpian wife called hajara or haggar and an iraqi wife called sarah, it wasnt called iraq tat time, abraham himself was from that land which is called iraq

i will quote u some stuff from the quran

quran is the final testament if u wanna call it, to fulfill the torah and the gospel of jesus and not gospels of hearsay by people who didnt know him and the anti christ st paul.

give me a few mins

i will find it for u

kabah was originally built as a shrine to God by adam and in the quran u learn abraham and ishmael raised the foundations and asked God for a promise

i will try to find some verses and i hope asif can help me too

cheers

moses

lol no worries your mate needs education of the middle east and has to read the quran if he wants to know the history

moses

dpa for u mate
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theirs loads of verses in the quran im looking for the stuff at the moment , while im doing that u have a read.

40. O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me.

41. And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

42. And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).

43. And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow down your heads with those who bow down (in worship).

44. Do ye enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget (To practise it) yourselves, and yet ye study the Scripture? Will ye not understand?

45. Nay, seek ((Allah)'s) help with patient perseverance and prayer: It is indeed hard, except to those who bring a lowly spirit,-

46. Who bear in mind the certainty that they are to meet their Lord, and that they are to return to Him.

47. Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other (for My Message).

48. Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).

49. And remember, We delivered you from the people of Pharaoh: They set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons and let your women-folk live; therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord.

50. And remember We divided the sea for you and saved you and drowned Pharaoh's people within your very sight.

51. And remember We appointed forty nights for Moses, and in his absence ye took the calf (for worship), and ye did grievous wrong.

52. Even then We did forgive you; there was a chance for you to be grateful.

53. And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (Between right and wrong): There was a chance for you to be guided aright.

54. And remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf: So turn (in repentance) to your Maker, and slay yourselves (the wrong-doers); that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned towards you (in forgiveness): For He is Oft- Returning, Most Merciful.

55. And remember ye said: "O Moses! We shall never believe in thee until we see Allah manifestly," but ye were dazed with thunder and lighting even as ye looked on.

56. Then We raised you up after your death: Ye had the chance to be grateful.

57. And We gave you the shade of clouds and sent down to you Manna and quails, saying: "Eat of the good things We have provided for you:" (But they rebelled); to us they did no harm, but they harmed their own souls.

58. And remember We said: "Enter this town, and eat of the plenty therein as ye wish; but enter the gate with humility, in posture and in words, and We shall forgive you your faults and increase (the portion of) those who do good."

59. But the transgressors changed the word from that which had been given them; so We sent on the transgressors a plague from heaven, for that they infringed (Our command) repeatedly.

60. And remember Moses prayed for water for his people; We said: "Strike the rock with thy staff." Then gushed forth therefrom twelve springs. Each group knew its own place for water. So eat and drink of the sustenance provided by Allah, and do no evil nor mischief on the (face of the) earth.

61. And remember ye said: "O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food (always); so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth, -its pot-herbs, and cucumbers, Its garlic, lentils, and onions." He said: "Will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town, and ye shall find what ye want!" They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah. This because they went on rejecting the Signs of Allah and slaying His Messengers without just cause. This because they rebelled and went on transgressing.

62. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

63. And remember We took your covenant and We raised above you (The towering height) of Mount (Sinai) : (Saying): "Hold firmly to what We have given you and bring (ever) to remembrance what is therein: Perchance ye may fear Allah."
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when God talks about christians above and jews, he means not the ones who worship jesus as God , idolatary is the worst crime in front of God, to associate partners with him is unforgivable etc etc and to believe u r superior than another race is a crime when all r equal

------------------------------

moses

78. And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.

79. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

80. And they say: "The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days:" Say: "Have ye taken a promise from Allah, for He never breaks His promise? or is it that ye say of Allah what ye do not know?"

81. Nay, those who seek gain in evil, and are girt round by their sins,- they are companions of the Fire: Therein shall they abide (For ever).

82. But those who have faith and work righteousness, they are companions of the Garden: Therein shall they abide (For ever).

83. And remember We took a covenant from the Children of Israel (to this effect): Worship none but Allah. treat with kindness your parents and kindred, and orphans and those in need; speak fair to the people; be steadfast in prayer; and practise regular charity. Then did ye turn back, except a few among you, and ye backslide (even now).

84. And remember We took your covenant (to this effect): Shed no blood amongst you, nor turn out your own people from your homes: and this ye solemnly ratified, and to this ye can bear witness.

85. After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist (Their enemies) against them, in guilt and rancour; and if they come to you as captives, ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.

86. These are the people who buy the life of this world at the price of the Hereafter: their penalty shall not be lightened nor shall they be helped.

87. We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

88. They say, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah.s Word: we need no more)." Nay, Allah.s curse is on them for their blasphemy: Little is it they believe.

89. And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognised, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.

90. Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls, in that they deny (the revelation) which Allah has sent down, in insolent envy that Allah of His Grace should send it to any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn on themselves Wrath upon Wrath. And humiliating is the punishment of those who reject Faith.

91. When it is said to them, "Believe in what Allah Hath sent down, "they say, "We believe in what was sent down to us:" yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say: "Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?"

92. There came to you Moses with clear (Signs); yet ye worshipped the calf (Even) after that, and ye did behave wrongfully.

93. And remember We took your covenant and We raised above you (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai): (Saying): "Hold firmly to what We have given you, and hearken (to the Law)": They said:" We hear, and we disobey:" And they had to drink into their hearts (of the taint) of the calf because of their Faithlessness. Say: "Vile indeed are the behests of your Faith if ye have any faith!"

94. Say: "If the last Home, with Allah, be for you specially, and not for anyone else, then seek ye for death, if ye are sincere."

95. But they will never seek for death, on account of the (sins) which their hands have sent on before them. and Allah is well-acquainted with the wrong-doers.

96. Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life,-even more than the idolaters: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do.

97. Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah.s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-

98. Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and apostles, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith.

99. We have sent down to thee Manifest Signs (ayat); and none reject them but those who are perverse.

100. Is it not (the case) that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throw it aside?- Nay, Most of them are faithless.

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its too long here dbp, if u want u can email me and i can send u the verses

cheers
112. Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

113. The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.

114. And who is more unjust than he who forbids that in places for the worship of Allah, Allah.s name should be celebrated?-whose zeal is (in fact) to ruin them? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them except in fear. For them there is nothing but disgrace in this world, and in the world to come, an exceeding torment.

115. To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing.

116. They say: "(Allah) hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.

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here is the verse with abraham building the kabah and the area was always for worshipping the one lord till i dont know how many hundreds of yrs or thousands when arabs became pagans etc

moses

please mods dont delete these, this is the last one im posting for dbp here

if he needs some more he can email me

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124. And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded: "And also (Imams) from my offspring!" He answered: "But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers."

125. Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).

126. And remember Abraham said: "My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day." He said: "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!"

127. And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.

128. "Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

129. "Our Lord! send amongst them an Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them: For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

130. And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous.

131. Behold! his Lord said to him: "Bow (thy will to Me):" He said: "I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the Universe."

132. And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."

133. Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam)."

134. That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case!

135. They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

136. Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

137. So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism; but Allah will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.

138. (Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah. And who can baptize better than Allah. And it is He Whom we worship.

139. Say: Will ye dispute with us about Allah, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that We are sincere (in our faith) in Him?

140. Or do ye say that Abraham, Isma'il Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah. Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah. but Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!

141. That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case:

Munching Madness

Holy moses......... give us a break!

moses

lol whats this another changed name

pls do me a favour, got nothing to do with u , me and dbp r having a frank discussion, i did say we can speak via email if he wishes

but u can bugger aff if u want its me and dbp talking if he wants a break he can ask me nicely i would give him a break and also a breakaway biccy

hectic

bit 'ZIONIST ' isnt it??????

moses

and one more thing do me a favour and dont go low, i ask u nicely, im not holy and im not holy moses, that title only belongs to the holy prophet moses, just call me moses pls

Soulgirl

I read that at lunchtime, not that the time makes any difference, but it padded out my reply somewhat

Spade a spade and sleeps at night... that's my kinda guy I agreed with most of what he said for sure.

At the end of the day, if you don't like the British way of life then don't move here and try to take over/convert everyone.

hectic

strewth ,,... g'nite dood......

Munching Madness

You are . What you copy/paste is pathetic.

Soulgirl

LOL - don't be drawn into his religious ramblings... he's a page short of a new testement is our Moses

DocJock

Moses said :
"lol no worries your mate needs education of the middle east and has to read the quran if he wants to know the history"

No mate, it is you who needs to open his eyes and see that your faith is just that and not necessarily the truth for everybody.

BTW, Meopotamians, Sumerians, Hittites and Babylonians worshipped the Sun and Moon and a bunch of other pagan deities so don't go claiming they were muslims.

Also, the quran is less than 1500 years old so please don't go quoting that as an authoratative text on matters 1000+ years before.
You might as well quote the Bible as it was written down nearer the time...

Munching Madness

I know!

Munching Madness

Moses........ are you one short of a spanner in a toolbox?

Soulgirl

And a sandwich short of a picknic.. or a brick short of a load... or a **** short of a toilet roll LOL

hectic

so he's NOT a 'zionist' then???

AsifScoob

Its a basic tenet of the Islamic Faith, IIRC.

Point is that the 'Word of God' was sent down in the times of Abraham etc, but became misinterpreted by Men, became Judaism. Therefore the 'Word of God' was sent down again and also became misinterpreted by Men - into Christianity.

Finally, 3rd time lucky, it was sent down again and due to various factors, such as many thousands of witnesses etc the word has remained untouched.

The point being that the first and second times, it was Islam that was sent down but misinterpreted. Took the 3rd attempt to succeed - the belief of this is part of the faith.

There is loads more details here, but I assume that you do not want to read that.

Worth pointing out that Muslims believe in Adam and Eve and the Old Testamant and such like.

HTH.

Asif

dba

Where has my post from earlier disappeared to? Have the mods gone mad? What going on?

Anyway,Moses,I will repeat it in full later.But thye gist is this;

You are talking about the history of God,I am referring to the history of Islam.All your massive post refers to are biblical references linking Allah as being the same God as in Jewish and Christian faiths.To argue this means Islam has a history to Adam is something I disagree with.

Islam is a way of life and started withy the revelations given to Mohammed.Thats when the history of Islam started,not before.The early monothiestic Arabs may have believed in Allah,this doesn't give Isalm a history,it gives faith in Allah a history,2 totally different things.

Suresh

Ditto.
The spam is deleted from the thread, taking good posts with it, but the c&p of religious w-ank remains.

Very odd

DocJock

Yeah, good idea, poor execution

RedFive

Don't worry, I read it all.

The Zohan

I for one RTM'd ths thread along with several other people.

Before anyone gets stroppy about the mass vape there where around 9 pages of mostly people trading insults and other rubbish not at all relevant to this thread - yes they/you know who they/you are!

Perhaps your annoyance, DBA et al should be levelled at the people who ran up 6 additional pages of nothingness for pretty much hi jacking and then ruining this thread.

I would imagine the mod who vaped it had better things to do than go through every comment on every post made in the 6 pages.

This was a shame as the thread up until it got hi jacked was a good, positive and lively discussion. I for one was enjoying it and i though it made a lot of valid points and i found it educational (in parts). I hope it can continue and any 'lost' comments can be remade.

Remember, we mods do this for free and yes, this is our Saturday morning as well, we have families and lives to lead.

Nuff said by me!

dba

What is 'RTM'ed'?

ps Moses,i did give a more detailed reply,but it got wiped as 'spam'.

The Zohan

Yes, by two other people and myself - i do not have mod 'powers' in this forum.

dba

I was being serious when I said I don't know RTM'ed means,and I still don't.I am not a Scooby Plus rent boy so I don't know what the secret code means.

ps I am not being stroppy,I have long since put Souldrivel on my ignore list

The Zohan

RTM
Report to Moderators - If you click on the 'i' icon under the name and details of a person posting on a thread it allows you to report a bad post.
Not secret code just part of the features of SN and many other boards.

Bubba po

I agree with this. I was horrified at the name-calling, but the wholesale copy-and-paste of tracts of religious scripture serves no-one. No-one will bother to read it; principally because it defines tedium to most people and secondarily because it does nothing to bolster moses's argument at all. On top of that it winds people up because no-one likes being preached at.

I'd prefer it if it went.