The UK Justice System Thread
20 August 2005, 12:28 PM
#31
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Paul have you posted in the right thread? Did this thread go wild over night? If so I'd like to extend my thanks to the moderator that took the time to remove individual pointless posts rather than lock/delete the whole thread 
20 August 2005, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
Paul have you posted in the right thread? Did this thread go wild over night? If so I'd like to extend my thanks to the moderator that took the time to remove individual pointless posts rather than lock/delete the whole thread
No, i screwed up!
Not for the first time - It was the Tebbit on Islam thread that got hi jacked.
I am proof you cannot get the staff!
Paul
20 August 2005, 05:44 PM
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Excellent way you've put things across SaxoBoy.
I also can't believe the way things are. I was waiting for a mate outside a train station late one night and this bloke came up to me and asked for a cigarette. I'd just smoked the last one in the packet and explained this to him. He grabbed me and head butted me twice on the bridge of the nose, breaking it and throwing blood into my eyes so I was basically temporarily blinded. He walked off and I started walking in the vague direction of a hospital. I walked past a police officer and explained what had happened. Nothing was done, just told me to get off to casualty. Suppose this sort of thing is just expected on Friday and Saturday nights.
I too can't believe that as a society we are quite happy to tolerate mindless violence, and I do think this country is actually pretty damn violent. How many times have you seen fights in town centers and clubs etc where you know for damn sure the thug beating the **** out of some poor ******* hasn't got anything to worry about regarding consequences of his actions.
Saxoboy is spot on regarding intent. There is a nasty undercurrent to this society that simple knows they can get away with all manner of things and nothing will be done.
I think that Mart is right when he says that Blair is to blame. Something has gone very wrong with this country over the last decade or so and it's getting worse. The country is going down the toilet.
I also can't believe the way things are. I was waiting for a mate outside a train station late one night and this bloke came up to me and asked for a cigarette. I'd just smoked the last one in the packet and explained this to him. He grabbed me and head butted me twice on the bridge of the nose, breaking it and throwing blood into my eyes so I was basically temporarily blinded. He walked off and I started walking in the vague direction of a hospital. I walked past a police officer and explained what had happened. Nothing was done, just told me to get off to casualty. Suppose this sort of thing is just expected on Friday and Saturday nights.
I too can't believe that as a society we are quite happy to tolerate mindless violence, and I do think this country is actually pretty damn violent. How many times have you seen fights in town centers and clubs etc where you know for damn sure the thug beating the **** out of some poor ******* hasn't got anything to worry about regarding consequences of his actions.
Saxoboy is spot on regarding intent. There is a nasty undercurrent to this society that simple knows they can get away with all manner of things and nothing will be done.
I think that Mart is right when he says that Blair is to blame. Something has gone very wrong with this country over the last decade or so and it's getting worse. The country is going down the toilet.
20 August 2005, 07:01 PM
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It isnt going to change as the majority of our MP's have come from priveledged backgrounds. Before Blair became PM he lived in an expensive house in a smart part of London. If the MPs had to put up with real life, cars getting vandalised, houses getting robbed, friends/family being attacked, they might do something about it, but they live in a bubble protected by police and secret service etc. Until they put up with the crap like we have to then they wont see a problem or change anything.
20 August 2005, 08:34 PM
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oh the keyboard warriors are off!!!
the point i was trying toget across is if you look at our justice system it is a s saxo boy states in total disarray..
until we start applying the law fairly across all races, genders and minoritys, we will still suffer the situation we are in today.
to many people use the human rights and race issues to evade justice, so we end up with a police force that criminalises the only people it can, the people who are readily tracable (car owners),
Ask yourself this, if you went to court, and were asked to declare guilt before the case or evidence was known, would you?? your solicitor would have the case thrown out for breaching statute, innocent until proven guilty but we have a government who has changed this to suit themselves.
crimes against the establishment or property carry more weight than crimes against humans.
there are more bodys to help the criminal than there are the victim, and thats a fact!
no wonder conviction and punishment are so cack handed.
and as to the rest of your comments... i couldnt give a toss, when billy and his mates f*ck you over, just remember you voted them in, i didnt. and bever would.
M
the point i was trying toget across is if you look at our justice system it is a s saxo boy states in total disarray..
until we start applying the law fairly across all races, genders and minoritys, we will still suffer the situation we are in today.
to many people use the human rights and race issues to evade justice, so we end up with a police force that criminalises the only people it can, the people who are readily tracable (car owners),
Ask yourself this, if you went to court, and were asked to declare guilt before the case or evidence was known, would you?? your solicitor would have the case thrown out for breaching statute, innocent until proven guilty but we have a government who has changed this to suit themselves.
crimes against the establishment or property carry more weight than crimes against humans.
there are more bodys to help the criminal than there are the victim, and thats a fact!
no wonder conviction and punishment are so cack handed.
and as to the rest of your comments... i couldnt give a toss, when billy and his mates f*ck you over, just remember you voted them in, i didnt. and bever would.
M
Last edited by mart360; 20 August 2005 at 09:24 PM.
21 August 2005, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrs WRX
It isnt going to change as the majority of our MP's have come from priveledged backgrounds. Before Blair became PM he lived in an expensive house in a smart part of London. If the MPs had to put up with real life, cars getting vandalised, houses getting robbed, friends/family being attacked, they might do something about it, but they live in a bubble protected by police and secret service etc. Until they put up with the crap like we have to then they wont see a problem or change anything.
21 August 2005, 02:22 AM
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I think that justice and criminal punishment are just a joke in this age, pressure is applied to the police forces to accomplish a particular 'clean up' rate, then the courts apply ridiculously 'out of touch' punishment to the crims, the whole thing is a joke. I would argur that the majority of sane thinking people in this nation would agree to 'let the punishment fit the crime' and bo**ocks to the namby pamby morons who seek to justify, sanction and feebly explain the actions of the scum who persistantly affect the lives, safety and peace of mind of the multitude. It doesn't seem to matter which political affiliation controls the nation - they all seem to be as slack as each other when it comes to putting the right solutions in place and getting back to being a law abiding, law respecting nation. Yes I break the speed limit and occasionally have a shandy over the odds then I might drive, but let's have a bit of common sense applied and meter the punishment in proportion to the consequence of the crime.
Phew - I needed that!!!!!!!!!!!!
Phew - I needed that!!!!!!!!!!!!
21 August 2005, 12:56 PM
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It seems that a fairly broad cross section of people, mostly reasonable sane law abiding people, think that something needs done about the level of crime. Indeed the police are so aware of this that i have seen posters on buses and the like saying something like "with your help we cleared up 11% more car crimes this year" and the like. Of course a local newspaper reporter tore that up in no time and revealed that the stats were lies built around an extremely liberal definition of "cleared up."
This raises the potential problem, as we slip into recession, that if an extreme party came along who said they would sort things out would we vote for them? I find it worrying that it was under similar circumtances that Hitler came to power, for example, but on the other hand i can see that something needs done and that i might be tempted to vote for a party who promised to abandon the reliance on spin and to focus their attention on removing criminals from society permanently as well as getting other things done.
You must remember that such a party would be subject to a huge opposition campaign by the do-gooders which could blunt its effectiveness. We have seen, for example in Red Ken, how even do-gooders who were regular supporters of terrorism can still maintain their position by hiding behind political correctness so, clearly, Ken would be one of the first to the gallows closely followed by some of his chums.
Does everyone think this would be OK or do some have reservations about it?
This raises the potential problem, as we slip into recession, that if an extreme party came along who said they would sort things out would we vote for them? I find it worrying that it was under similar circumtances that Hitler came to power, for example, but on the other hand i can see that something needs done and that i might be tempted to vote for a party who promised to abandon the reliance on spin and to focus their attention on removing criminals from society permanently as well as getting other things done.
You must remember that such a party would be subject to a huge opposition campaign by the do-gooders which could blunt its effectiveness. We have seen, for example in Red Ken, how even do-gooders who were regular supporters of terrorism can still maintain their position by hiding behind political correctness so, clearly, Ken would be one of the first to the gallows closely followed by some of his chums.
Does everyone think this would be OK or do some have reservations about it?
22 August 2005, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mart360
oh the keyboard warriors are off!!!
the point i was trying toget across is if you look at our justice system it is a s saxo boy states in total disarray..
until we start applying the law fairly across all races, genders and minoritys, we will still suffer the situation we are in today.
to many people use the human rights and race issues to evade justice, so we end up with a police force that criminalises the only people it can, the people who are readily tracable (car owners),
Ask yourself this, if you went to court, and were asked to declare guilt before the case or evidence was known, would you?? your solicitor would have the case thrown out for breaching statute, innocent until proven guilty but we have a government who has changed this to suit themselves.
crimes against the establishment or property carry more weight than crimes against humans.
there are more bodys to help the criminal than there are the victim, and thats a fact!
no wonder conviction and punishment are so cack handed.
and as to the rest of your comments... i couldnt give a toss, when billy and his mates f*ck you over, just remember you voted them in, i didnt. and bever would.
M
the point i was trying toget across is if you look at our justice system it is a s saxo boy states in total disarray..
until we start applying the law fairly across all races, genders and minoritys, we will still suffer the situation we are in today.
to many people use the human rights and race issues to evade justice, so we end up with a police force that criminalises the only people it can, the people who are readily tracable (car owners),
Ask yourself this, if you went to court, and were asked to declare guilt before the case or evidence was known, would you?? your solicitor would have the case thrown out for breaching statute, innocent until proven guilty but we have a government who has changed this to suit themselves.
crimes against the establishment or property carry more weight than crimes against humans.
there are more bodys to help the criminal than there are the victim, and thats a fact!
no wonder conviction and punishment are so cack handed.
and as to the rest of your comments... i couldnt give a toss, when billy and his mates f*ck you over, just remember you voted them in, i didnt. and bever would.
M
There's no need to get emotional and continue talking rubbish, just answer the question.
According to your previous post, I can go and commit a crime tomorrow with no fear of punishment, simply because of the colour of my skin - are you serious?
Asif
22 August 2005, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ben WRX Bug-Eye
Excellent way you've put things across SaxoBoy.
I also can't believe the way things are. I was waiting for a mate outside a train station late one night and this bloke came up to me and asked for a cigarette. I'd just smoked the last one in the packet and explained this to him. He grabbed me and head butted me twice on the bridge of the nose, breaking it and throwing blood into my eyes so I was basically temporarily blinded. He walked off and I started walking in the vague direction of a hospital. I walked past a police officer and explained what had happened. Nothing was done, just told me to get off to casualty. Suppose this sort of thing is just expected on Friday and Saturday nights.
I too can't believe that as a society we are quite happy to tolerate mindless violence, and I do think this country is actually pretty damn violent. How many times have you seen fights in town centers and clubs etc where you know for damn sure the thug beating the **** out of some poor ******* hasn't got anything to worry about regarding consequences of his actions.
Saxoboy is spot on regarding intent. There is a nasty undercurrent to this society that simple knows they can get away with all manner of things and nothing will be done.
I think that Mart is right when he says that Blair is to blame. Something has gone very wrong with this country over the last decade or so and it's getting worse. The country is going down the toilet.
I also can't believe the way things are. I was waiting for a mate outside a train station late one night and this bloke came up to me and asked for a cigarette. I'd just smoked the last one in the packet and explained this to him. He grabbed me and head butted me twice on the bridge of the nose, breaking it and throwing blood into my eyes so I was basically temporarily blinded. He walked off and I started walking in the vague direction of a hospital. I walked past a police officer and explained what had happened. Nothing was done, just told me to get off to casualty. Suppose this sort of thing is just expected on Friday and Saturday nights.
I too can't believe that as a society we are quite happy to tolerate mindless violence, and I do think this country is actually pretty damn violent. How many times have you seen fights in town centers and clubs etc where you know for damn sure the thug beating the **** out of some poor ******* hasn't got anything to worry about regarding consequences of his actions.
Saxoboy is spot on regarding intent. There is a nasty undercurrent to this society that simple knows they can get away with all manner of things and nothing will be done.
I think that Mart is right when he says that Blair is to blame. Something has gone very wrong with this country over the last decade or so and it's getting worse. The country is going down the toilet.
Good day Sunday, got your pm mate, good pic, thanks.
BTW, completely agree with what you say above.
Asif
22 August 2005, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AsifScoob
Mart,
There's no need to get emotional and continue talking rubbish, just answer the question.
According to your previous post, I can go and commit a crime tomorrow with no fear of punishment, simply because of the colour of my skin - are you serious?
Asif
There's no need to get emotional and continue talking rubbish, just answer the question.
According to your previous post, I can go and commit a crime tomorrow with no fear of punishment, simply because of the colour of my skin - are you serious?
Asif
try answering this question, to see if it sheds any light accross the arguement...
if i got nicked for a crime and used the race card, do you think i would get any help/ support, councelling, etc...
there should be no need to have any form of specific body for any minority, majority or particular group, however we seem to be hell bent on providing the world and his oyster every thing going whilst overlooking the majority..
hence we have such disparity in sentancing, and application of the law.
M
emptional me rubbish!!!
M
22 August 2005, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mart360
try it and see
try answering this question, to see if it sheds any light accross the arguement...
if i got nicked for a crime and used the race card, do you think i would get any help/ support, councelling, etc...
there should be no need to have any form of specific body for any minority, majority or particular group, however we seem to be hell bent on providing the world and his oyster every thing going whilst overlooking the majority..
hence we have such disparity in sentancing, and application of the law.
M
emptional me rubbish!!!
M
try answering this question, to see if it sheds any light accross the arguement...
if i got nicked for a crime and used the race card, do you think i would get any help/ support, councelling, etc...
there should be no need to have any form of specific body for any minority, majority or particular group, however we seem to be hell bent on providing the world and his oyster every thing going whilst overlooking the majority..
hence we have such disparity in sentancing, and application of the law.
M
emptional me rubbish!!!
M
You've answered my question in your first statement there Mart, thanks.
Do you actually know of any actual specific example of this? Did you actually read Brit in Japans post? Care to comment on any of the points he raised?
I look forward to your cool, clear headed, objective answer.
Asif
22 August 2005, 11:26 PM
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dont push your luck!!!!
i agree with the post, there is no sense in the way the current legal system works,
hence my comments.... until we bring some normality to the way we approach
sentancing without any of the pc or other related issues it will be a lottery ..
look at the paper today,,,, a 34 year old beats a woman to death,, and gets a derisory sentance...
sorry but in my book, life should mean life...
Mart
i agree with the post, there is no sense in the way the current legal system works,
hence my comments.... until we bring some normality to the way we approach
sentancing without any of the pc or other related issues it will be a lottery ..
look at the paper today,,,, a 34 year old beats a woman to death,, and gets a derisory sentance...
sorry but in my book, life should mean life...
Mart
22 August 2005, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mart360
dont push your luck!!!!
i agree with the post, there is no sense in the way the current legal system works,
hence my comments.... until we bring some normality to the way we approach
sentancing without any of the pc or other related issues it will be a lottery ..
look at the paper today,,,, a 34 year old beats a woman to death,, and gets a derisory sentance...
sorry but in my book, life should mean life...
Mart
i agree with the post, there is no sense in the way the current legal system works,
hence my comments.... until we bring some normality to the way we approach
sentancing without any of the pc or other related issues it will be a lottery ..
look at the paper today,,,, a 34 year old beats a woman to death,, and gets a derisory sentance...
sorry but in my book, life should mean life...
Mart
FWIW I agree with a lot of what you say. I just cannot see that someone saying "Its a fit up because I am black" working in the face of 'Beyond reasonable doubt'. BIJ's comments seem to bear some of that out.
I dont deny people try it on, but its one thing in the workplace say, and something completely different in the criminal court.
Just my tuppence.
Did you make it to Alton then? Would have been nice to out a face to a SN name.
Asif
22 August 2005, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AsifScoob
LOL, cant have too many sensible posts now can we? Try to make your 3000th one a sensible one too.
FWIW I agree with a lot of what you say. I just cannot see that someone saying "Its a fit up because I am black" working in the face of 'Beyond reasonable doubt'. BIJ's comments seem to bear some of that out.
I dont deny people try it on, but its one thing in the workplace say, and something completely different in the criminal court.
Just my tuppence.
Did you make it to Alton then? Would have been nice to out a face to a SN name.
Asif
FWIW I agree with a lot of what you say. I just cannot see that someone saying "Its a fit up because I am black" working in the face of 'Beyond reasonable doubt'. BIJ's comments seem to bear some of that out.
I dont deny people try it on, but its one thing in the workplace say, and something completely different in the criminal court.
Just my tuppence.
Did you make it to Alton then? Would have been nice to out a face to a SN name.
Asif
sadly no ;( wifey decided we should take the kids to the zoo
would have liked to have gone again...
mart
23 August 2005, 08:18 AM
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I'll make the point again in a different way.
I think that all the law as such that we need is in place. Its just the way it is administered by the present generation of lefty PC politicians, magistrates and judges that is letting us down.
Les
I think that all the law as such that we need is in place. Its just the way it is administered by the present generation of lefty PC politicians, magistrates and judges that is letting us down.
Les
23 August 2005, 08:44 AM
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Here's another tack on the problem here.
The Scottish Parliament has set aside something like £40Million to cover the cost of compensation for the poor old prisoners having to slop out in Scottish Jails. So murdering Scum get 2-4 years in HMHotels then get a payoff of between £3-5k (my estimate) for their inconveniece at not having en-suite facilities.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4737245.stm
The Lunatics have indeed taken over the Asylum.
Well - of course the Lunatics have all been released from the Asylums - that was costing too much too.
The Scottish Parliament has set aside something like £40Million to cover the cost of compensation for the poor old prisoners having to slop out in Scottish Jails. So murdering Scum get 2-4 years in HMHotels then get a payoff of between £3-5k (my estimate) for their inconveniece at not having en-suite facilities.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4737245.stm
The Lunatics have indeed taken over the Asylum.
Well - of course the Lunatics have all been released from the Asylums - that was costing too much too.
Last edited by Reality; 23 August 2005 at 08:46 AM. Reason: more accurate budget foecasts and link to story
23 August 2005, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Reality
Here's another tack on the problem here.
The Scottish Parliament has set aside something like £40Million to cover the cost of compensation for the poor old prisoners having to slop out in Scottish Jails. So murdering Scum get 2-4 years in HMHotels then get a payoff of between £3-5k (my estimate) for their inconveniece at not having en-suite facilities.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4737245.stm
The Lunatics have indeed taken over the Asylum.
Well - of course the Lunatics have all been released from the Asylums - that was costing too much too.
The Scottish Parliament has set aside something like £40Million to cover the cost of compensation for the poor old prisoners having to slop out in Scottish Jails. So murdering Scum get 2-4 years in HMHotels then get a payoff of between £3-5k (my estimate) for their inconveniece at not having en-suite facilities.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4737245.stm
The Lunatics have indeed taken over the Asylum.
Well - of course the Lunatics have all been released from the Asylums - that was costing too much too.
Childline looking to shut its overnight service due (which is its busiest time) to lack of funding - none of which is forthcoming from the government. and this happens.
What a sad state of affiars.
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