Supercharger question
#32
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No, I/we appreciate it - its just a little heavy handed to say every honda owner with a supercharger wishes they had got a turbo. Many chose the supercharger because its very consistent with the stock cars power delivery and character just that its faster. A turbo charged S2000 for example would not drive anything like a VTEC honda.
I love turbo cars but to be honest if I was going FI on my S2000 I'd get a supercharger so that it still needs to be worked hard but delivers manic acceleration at the top end
I love turbo cars but to be honest if I was going FI on my S2000 I'd get a supercharger so that it still needs to be worked hard but delivers manic acceleration at the top end
#33
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Someone else who gets it
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
No, I/we appreciate it - its just a little heavy handed to say every honda owner with a supercharger wishes they had got a turbo. Many chose the supercharger because its very consistent with the stock cars power delivery and character just that its faster. A turbo charged S2000 for example would not drive anything like a VTEC honda.
I love turbo cars but to be honest if I was going FI on my S2000 I'd get a supercharger so that it still needs to be worked hard but delivers manic acceleration at the top end
I love turbo cars but to be honest if I was going FI on my S2000 I'd get a supercharger so that it still needs to be worked hard but delivers manic acceleration at the top end
Which is exactly why I said superchargers are more suited to VTEC motors.
#34
i take it u guys aint driven turbo vtecs??, vtec kicks harder in mine than any NA build, and i have built and tuned NA too.
Do some more research then come back to me, PM me if u want any info/ contact for parts / places to start researching. I know my ****e when it comes to hondas.
Do some more research then come back to me, PM me if u want any info/ contact for parts / places to start researching. I know my ****e when it comes to hondas.
#35
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Good info, ta.
FMU seems to work well on S/C applications, as I said, the amount of people using them sucessfully in the US is huge. Didnt know they did them for turbo's??
Clearly aftermarket engine management is always best, as its custom mapped to the car's mods. I will use the FMU until I can
1) Afford to buy an AEM ECU from the states
2) Find someone who knows how to map.
Good mappers on VTEC's seem to be very very rare in the UK. Think Jakan are well respected, but there are so few people running with modded S's, so experience will be limited. Do you know anyone who has mapped an F20C? Would be useful to know if so.
Again, I agree with you that turbo is the way to go if you want big power. My view on the car is that its is already very quick, and the S/C fits with what I want. You're right on the power delivery, but the standard S has its peak power way up top, the SC just shifts everything up:
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....6-3D620F80484E
The vid above is a Comptech and the only other guy I know of in the UK with a SC.
My problem with Turbo's on the S is that its totally new ground over here, the only 2 guys to do it spent 10's of £000's doing it and lost out big time upon sale.
MB
FMU seems to work well on S/C applications, as I said, the amount of people using them sucessfully in the US is huge. Didnt know they did them for turbo's??
Clearly aftermarket engine management is always best, as its custom mapped to the car's mods. I will use the FMU until I can
1) Afford to buy an AEM ECU from the states
2) Find someone who knows how to map.
Good mappers on VTEC's seem to be very very rare in the UK. Think Jakan are well respected, but there are so few people running with modded S's, so experience will be limited. Do you know anyone who has mapped an F20C? Would be useful to know if so.
Again, I agree with you that turbo is the way to go if you want big power. My view on the car is that its is already very quick, and the S/C fits with what I want. You're right on the power delivery, but the standard S has its peak power way up top, the SC just shifts everything up:
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....6-3D620F80484E
The vid above is a Comptech and the only other guy I know of in the UK with a SC.
My problem with Turbo's on the S is that its totally new ground over here, the only 2 guys to do it spent 10's of £000's doing it and lost out big time upon sale.
MB
Last edited by Dark Blue Mark; 15 September 2005 at 10:29 PM.
#36
Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum
..... sure s/c itr and ctrs are good but the turbos are better
However for everyday driving I find the SC more than enough, the install is simpler, is more proven (on the CTR anyway). 280 - 300 bhp is about as mutch as I would want through the front wheels on a daily driver, so just saying a Turbo is better because you can have way more power is pretty mutch pointless. Drivability is the key, and reliability. Oh and I am still running standard internals, and drivetrain.
So if I wanted to build the fastest Civic down a strip I may fit a turbo and crank the boost up, but for daily driving it gives me as much power as I want. Anymore and I may as well have bought a Scooby (like the wife did)
Last edited by super6four; 15 September 2005 at 10:35 PM.
#38
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
Can I ask who did your mapping?
MB
MB
#40
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
Nice! The Cam change has gone though?!
I would look at Hondata but they dont do the S at the moment.
MB
I would look at Hondata but they dont do the S at the moment.
MB
If you look you can still see it, a bit (changeover is now 4k). It means I can cruise at 80 all day long, off boost (The jackson Charger has a part throttle by-pass valve) and off ca, So it is 'fairly' economical. As you pointed out though you can not feel any changeover. Was never as strong on the CTR as on the old B series for example.
Last edited by super6four; 16 September 2005 at 12:01 AM.
#41
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DBM - there's a guy called Henry something or other who's a damn fine Honda mapper, I'll dig out his details for you if you like.
Might be a bit far away though as he's up in Scotland
Might be a bit far away though as he's up in Scotland
#43
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Ps, with regard to timing, the timing controller from Vortech has it's own internal map sensor, and is prgrammed from Vortech. The map supplied pulls under 3deg total timing retard.
It can be reprogrammed if you have the R4 software from Split Second.
The OEM ECU operates normally with the Timing controller installed. The controller sends an offset crank position input signal to get the PCM to retard the timing. The PCM still thinks it is running as much advance as possible.
(Info I gleaned from S2Ki)
MB
It can be reprogrammed if you have the R4 software from Split Second.
The OEM ECU operates normally with the Timing controller installed. The controller sends an offset crank position input signal to get the PCM to retard the timing. The PCM still thinks it is running as much advance as possible.
(Info I gleaned from S2Ki)
MB
#44
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With S2000s and CTRs, ITRs, surely the main issue is how to manage or modulate the power delivery. These cars will spin their wheels or themselves all day long in the wrong weather conditions - wet or wet/slippery.
A supercharger's output can be more finely controlled with the throttle than a turbocharger, given the right mapping.
It seems to me to be a case of horses for courses and if you want a fast road car, then the s/c wins on so many levels.
J.
A supercharger's output can be more finely controlled with the throttle than a turbocharger, given the right mapping.
It seems to me to be a case of horses for courses and if you want a fast road car, then the s/c wins on so many levels.
J.
#46
Originally Posted by vindaloo
With S2000s and CTRs, ITRs, surely the main issue is how to manage or modulate the power delivery. These cars will spin their wheels or themselves all day long in the wrong weather conditions - wet or wet/slippery.
A supercharger's output can be more finely controlled with the throttle than a turbocharger, given the right mapping.
It seems to me to be a case of horses for courses and if you want a fast road car, then the s/c wins on so many levels.
J.
A supercharger's output can be more finely controlled with the throttle than a turbocharger, given the right mapping.
It seems to me to be a case of horses for courses and if you want a fast road car, then the s/c wins on so many levels.
J.
Going back to the power issue, again for everyday use as far as fron wheel drive goes there is no practical reason to choose a Charger over a turbo....performance wise. You can with iether excede the limits of tractability. I know of a CTR pushing 320 bhp running 11 psi. It does have water injection but no form of chargecooling (though for his oils sake I have told him to fit an oil cooler asap). With a turbo all the conversions I have seemn off course have a bloody great intercooler on the front and plumbing that would give Super Mario knightmares.
If I wanated to go up the strip as quick as possible I would slap on a Turbo whack up the boost and stick on a set of Micky Thompsons
#47
U can make up your own minds, but a turbo vtec makes a much more comfortable daily driver than u would think. Anyone wanna come for a ride?? You'll change your mind.
Cars i have built and tuned ( all B series )
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
http://www.civicjordan.co.uk/forum/t...acc0976a1ba6fd
http://www.civicjordan.co.uk/forum/t...acc0976a1ba6fd
The jordan is mine, ive been through a few different builds. Take a look at the red eg's dyno runs vids, and the 12.9et @ the pod.
Cars i have built and tuned ( all B series )
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
http://www.civicjordan.co.uk/forum/t...acc0976a1ba6fd
http://www.civicjordan.co.uk/forum/t...acc0976a1ba6fd
The jordan is mine, ive been through a few different builds. Take a look at the red eg's dyno runs vids, and the 12.9et @ the pod.
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