Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Road racing from 60-150mph is a anyway.

I would guess that 600bhp in a scoob would leave the astra well behind. Rolling-start or not.

Still impressive times for an Astra though.


Bob

Andy.F

I was running 120+ terminals in my WRX RA a few years ago with 400bhp
John banks runs 120 something with circa 450bhp in a UK version
Mikee runs 125 ish with around 500bhp
550 bhp scoobs are running around 132mph
600bhp approx 140mph
and then there's the odd one running 147.5mph

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Mikee is doing 130 terminals with 500bhp.

Still cant believe you keep pushing things further with yours. Still sounds like more to come.

chip-3door

wont try and justify that sort of racing on the road as i cant, up to him how he uses it, i just help him tune it.

The astra ran 121mph with around 350bhp, at a guess now its running more like 425.

your car with 350bhp was still 7 mph off matching his time with 350bhp, and im sure you are aware thats a big difference in terminal, so you must realise how much extra power you would need to make the difference up, and his car now has about 20% more power.

So basically although no one can put an exact figure on it for matching him 60-150mph its going to be somewhere between 500 and 600bhp im sure we can both agree?
Obviously you feel its towards the lower end of that range, but having driven the astra i would say towards the higher end of that range.
Once its over 60mph (ie from third gear onwards once its got enough traction to put all the power down) the acceleration really is relentless, the aeroydynamics of it are more suited to high speed acceleration than a scooby and a "normal" scooby is a good 50% heavier than the astra too i should think (astra weighs not much over 800kg)


It was doing 60-120 on that day in around 7 seconds, and 60-100 in under 5 seconds, since then its now more powerful and its now more like 4 seconds from 60-100mph. I dont have a figure for the 60-150mph time though, but i would guess its around 10 seconds now.

For reference a (original shape pre bugeye one, only one ive seen the figures for) uk spec imprezza turbo in standard guise cant get under 10 seconds from 60-100 if my memory serves correct, so that impliess you need at least (its NOT linear of course in terms of power increases versus acceleration times) 250% of the power to cover the same gain in speed in 40% of the time, does that make sense?

chip-3door

Thanks for that, useful info indeed

The astra is a 125mph+ car now (the times quoted are old times)
So you would be looking at 500bhp to match it up the quarter, despite the 4wd advatantages, so for the sort of race the lad was on about its obvously very clear that you would need far more than 500bhp once that 4wd advantage was removed.

Hopefully that puts it in perspective for the thread starter.

chip-3door

This one isnt my car, its my friend Robs, i just set the engine up for him.

My car I'm currently building is the same basic engine, but in a far lighter shell (a mini) and with a lot more power.
Things mine has that his doesnt (and his new engine will) include:
steel rods
destrestressed block with added oil squirters :http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/c20let/100_0076.jpg
lower compression pistons
equal length exhaust manifold
larger turbo
larger valves and a lot of headwork
more cam lift and sligthly longer duration (plus double springs and steel caps etc)

mine will be minimum 500bhp and should weigh no more than 600kg.

I am hoping for terminals of over 140mph from my car of course, but even if i ever managed to match his 147.5mph terminal i certainly wont ever get under 10 seconds like Andy.F has just done, that really is awesome and shows just how important mechanical advantage off the line is with quarter mile times!

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Sorry that was re Andy

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

500bhp would be more than ample to beat it on the strip (ie 10 second pass @ 130mph).

Unfortunatley the rolling starts that you mention aren't really quantifiable, and hence cant be compared.

Where do you get 60-100mph figures from for the classic? All classics are capable of sub 10 second 60-100mph AFAIK.

As I mentioned before it sounds like a quick FWD car and would probably be better compared to other FWD cars.

800kgs is fecking light!

chip-3door

Ah, no worries.

Ive got a mate who is the same with getting top speed out of his cossie, currently running at 210mph in not much over a mile from a standing start and still pushing for more, you would have thought at 60 he should know better, but some people are like that and just dont ever give up pushing themselves and their car harder and harder.

chip-3door

The figures i saw quoted by subaru about 10 years ago when i considered buying one new were 10.3 from 60-100
Well, it wasnt explicitly quoted like that it was quoted as 0-60 of 6 and 60-100 of 16.3 or something along those lines, cant remember the exact numbers but can remember thinking "bloody hell over 10 seconds from 60-100 sod getting one of those" so i didnt buy one (not just for that reason obviously as cars can always be improved!).

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

that seems a long way off a std '97 uk scoob tested at 13.7@100mph (tested by Performance Car)

chip-3door

Agreed, that (2.5 seconds) is a massive difference!
Just going by what was i quoted at the time

Mind you knowing Performance Car they probably tested it with a stopwatch against the speedo, lol

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

This is funny.

Granted the Astra would whip most, sub 350bhp cars over a straight line, either from a rolling start or from a standstill.

Hell i did a 12.1 in my UK Wagon 2 years ago with approx 350bhp, at approx 118mph, so not so far off the astras terminals. (that was at elvington BTW). In fact at TOTB2 i did 12.5 at 118mph.

Seriously, a 450bhp scoob would beat it rolling start or not. A 550bhp, Scoob would whip its **** so much it would be embarrassing. What terminals did it get at TOTB over 1.25 miles?

I did 178 at TOTB4 in a scoob that literally had an emergency engine chucked in between 11pm and 6am before the morning of TOTB, it was then mapped for a few hours, very conservatively. That was running roughly 450bhp based on estimates.

The same car 2 months earlier, with the correct engine in, did 190.1 mph at Elvington in 1.25 miles. Thats more than likely 0-190 in less than 30 seconds, comfortably. No Astra i have seen will compete with that.

500+ on a scoob is a whole new ball game, no ifs, no buts, its another level of performance.

Steven

chip-3door

Why is 500+ in a scooby any different to 500bhp in anything else?

500bhp in a scooby is barely any more power at the wheels than robs astra is now making (sadly dont have any figures for it since TOTB to show the new performance) i would expect, the astra is making about 425bhp now but i should imagine has 10% less drivetrain losses due to being fwd

The astra weighs 800kg and is more aerodynamic i should think, so i dont see why you think a scooby will be quicker just cause its a scooby?

I agree though that it wont do 190mph, it runs out of gearing at not much past 170.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

60-140+ in 7 ish seconds!!

chip-3door

Sorry, didnt answer the question about the 1.25 terminal, Rob only had one attempt at it, 152mph IIRC, but the (boost leak induced) misfire was really bad and he let off long before the line so its not really much of an accurate stat for it TBH.

sbd16v

whats the chances on me coming up against a 500bhp scooby in plymouth

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

They are peak figures. The power delivery on different cars may well be very different.

Unfortunatley, one cannot calculate a cars quickness just using peak figures and weight.

chip-3door

Nice

Proper motoring that, i suspect you are being "a little conservative" with your power estimates though, but thats your perogative of course.

So hard to get a realistic figure on a turbo car as so few people manage to get them fully underload on the rollers, most cossie owners never see the boost on the rollers they do on the road in 5th gear, so in reality they all have more power than they think they do, i suspect the same is true of yours based on those figures, unless you are quoting at the wheels!

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

more chance than me running into a 400bhp+ Astra

chip-3door

Agree completely. its all about the area under the curve mate.

chip-3door

LOL

Very true, only one in the country that i know of so far mate!

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

I never said its a different ball game just because its a scoob.

A 500+ scoob is a different ball game to a less powered scoob, truly it is. They almost become undriveable on anything but smooth roads.

Were almost talking similar bases here.

The Astra, wrecked its engine a couple of days before TOTB4 started. The Lateral scoob F!!cked its engine the day before.
The Astras engine wasnt as good at TOTB4 as it is now. The Lateral scoob engine at TOTB4 was a quick fire remedy, the one it has now, has well over 100BHP more.

Astra 12.6 at 121 at TOTB4
450bhp Scoob 11.8 at 119 at TOTB4

Astra Vmax at TOTB4 over 1.25mile 152.4mph
450bhp Scoob Vmax at TOTB4 over 1.25mile 176.8mph

Different league IMO, sorry.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for time delay, phone keeps ringing.

Point taken re Vmax statistics.

The Lateral Scoob ran 567bhp on 21st May 2005 at Scooby Clinics DynoDynamics rolling road, at 1.8bar.

On 22nd May 2005 it did a 10.9 quarter at 133mph, and 190.1mph at 1.25 miles at Elvington in the scoobyshootout. The quarter mile was done by me, and was the 1st time i had driven the car ever. The 190.1 was done by Mark, the owner of Lateral Performance, who owns the car.

I have the only fast car in my village (said in a little brittain way ), but then only 400 people live in my village, and probably half have tractors

Horses for courses, etc

Steven

chip-3door

The astra was FASTER (terminal not time) with 350bhp up the quarter than a 450bhp scooby.

The astra now has around 425bhp.
So a VERY safe assumption to me that it would accelerate (once moving) now just as well relative to a scooby with 75bhp more than it (one sixth more power) as it did before to a scoob with 100bph more than it (one third more)


The astra didnt get a proper run in on the 1.25 mile so not much point quoting the one run it did and treating that as gospel im afraid mate, so you comparison is meaningless looking at where it wasnt at WOT for a big chunk of the run.

The astra also had a lovely run where it did 17 seconds on the quarter for example are you going to compare that against your car as well?
Like most cars at some point when something goes wrong, be it driver error or car failure (he popped a boost hose off) it ran a bad time for the quarter and then came back for another 12 afterwards, but no point quoting that any more than his 152mph top speed which ive already told you wasnt indicitive of the cars real performance, its just the only timed run it did.

chip-3door

What does that scooby do 0-60 in? 4 seconds or so im guessing?
and what does it do 120-133 in, 1 second or so?


So 60-120 = 6 seconds (very ISH!) versus the astra doing it in 7 seconds on the day at TOTB (when it was slower than it is now!)


He now has 20% more power than he had then, so its got to take at least 10% off that 7 seconds IME

So you are looking at 6ish seconds for the 576bhp imprezza from 60-120 and 6.5ish for the 425bhp astra


To me thats a very comparable performance and tallies completely with what i was saying about it being equivalent to a scooby at the thick end of 500-600bhp, especially as i believe us only gaining 4mph (to make 125mph) is a very conservative estimate against the extra power we now have.

whatever way you look at it, its bloody close!

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

NO, IT DIDNT. 11.8s is 0.8s quicker than 12.6s. Regarding mph, your saying 1% would be noticable at that speed?

See above re the VMAX quote

Ok, so the Astra has gone from 350 to 425, a 21 % increase. I will be impressed if its terminals at the end of the 1/4 get beyond 130.

chip-3door

Quicker i was referring to was the terminal not the time, not for one second ANYWHERE EVER has Rob claimed his car will beat a 4wd car off the line over a short distance.

I dont believe his terminals will go over 130mph either.

I believe his quarter (if he is lucky) will go to 12.0 @ 130 at absolute best.

But bare in mind he will still be runnning a 0-60 time that is more than 1 second slower than the scooby and you can see (surely you can its not complicated!) that he would then be getting from 60-130 in the same time (well less in fact!) as the 576bhp scooby!

So how can a 500bhp one be quicker than him?

With regards to the 1%, hell yes that would be noticeable, it would mean that for every hundred yards covered he would pull another 3rd of a car length, and thats assuming that he didnt gain any more mph over the scooby, which as he has accelerated quicker from 60-120 quicker than it did seems a safe assumption, so that gap is only going to get bigger over a larger distance not smaller.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Granted, it MAY be close, but PWR is different.

Lets try and compare it a little better, IIRC it says the astra was 800kg earlier?, so at 350bhp, thats 437bhp per ton. The scoob, weighing approx 1230kg, so we need a scoob with roughly 538bhp.

Using Marks car as an example, which is near enough to those figures, it will still be a whole second quicker, at least, and will have a higher terminal.

Wait till TOTB5, then the hypothesising will stop

chip-3door

We arent claiming that the astra will beat a scooby with a PWR that is identical, there is also power against aerodynamics etc to deal with.


The whole argument we were having is that a 500bhp scooby wouldnt annihiliate the astra in its current state of tune, so to be hoenst you agreeing that it might be close against a 576bhp one is pretty much saying the same thing anyway to be honest.

Rob doesnt think his car will beat all scoobies and he never has, he just think it will beat everyone on the site he said he would beat everyone on.


Both me and Rob have lots of respect for anyone getting 500bhp from a scooby and wouldnt take for granted for one second that we would beat them, we're just expecting the same respect in return as in reality (straight line rolling start) they are peers.