£ 1.00.9 a litre
04 September 2005, 02:03 PM
#91
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Originally Posted by deano555
Why are you harping on about crude oil prices, the price increases this week are purely down to the uk sending "refined petrol" to the states to cash in on the hurricane disaster,
Forgive me for not realising that a few ships of oil (that haven't even left port yet) are the sole cause of the expensive petrol in the last 6 months.
Who tells you all this rubbish anyway?
04 September 2005, 02:13 PM
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Imlach. You are wasting your breath mate. This lot have a one track mind......The petrol price track!!! I know were I'd sooner the tax was! Where I can decide whether I pay it or not.....
dave
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04 September 2005, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by imlach
So you'd be quite happy for VAT to go up to 25% then on EVERYTHING you buy instead of having fuel duty?
.
Originally Posted by imlach
If the majority don't agree with you, then so be it. That's democracy.
When we are never sure to be right at least that let us a margin for improvement and change.
What about you Imlach? Your intellectual way of seeing things is imature and depressing... You don't really care about the problem, all you like is arguing. I won't bother continue to answer you, you like it too much to be honnest
04 September 2005, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by imlach
Really? Thank you for enlightning me. I really thought it was more to do with the fact that crude oil has doubled in price in the last year.....from $30 last year to $70 right now.
Forgive me for not realising that a few ships of oil (that haven't even left port yet) are the sole cause of the expensive petrol in the last 6 months.
Who tells you all this rubbish anyway?
Forgive me for not realising that a few ships of oil (that haven't even left port yet) are the sole cause of the expensive petrol in the last 6 months.
Who tells you all this rubbish anyway?
04 September 2005, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by k2iss
What about you Imlach? Your intellectual way of seeing things is imature and depressing... You don't really care about the problem, all you like is arguing. I won't bother continue to answer you, you like it too much to be honnest
I just state the economics of how it is. You just don't want to hear the truth.
04 September 2005, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by deano555
BBC news at 10 o'clock in the evening and it is ships containing petrol not oil !!
04 September 2005, 04:35 PM
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Just had one of those "chain" e mails sent to me that outlines a way of possibly forcing the price of petrol down. ( Let me just say I didn't think this one up!!!!!)
Instead of having fuel blockades and only buying every other day etc, why not boycott the biggest petrol retailers (Esso BP). Buy your fuel from other suppliers Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys etc. OK the prices will be the same as else where initially, but maybe if enough people boycott ESSO BP they will have to reduce their prices, and other retailers will have to follow suit to remain competitive. OK it will take large numbers of people to boycott these suppliers but it's a thought.
As I say not my original idea, but I have been running my Turbo on Tesco unleaded with no ill effects, so I might just continue to do so.
Instead of having fuel blockades and only buying every other day etc, why not boycott the biggest petrol retailers (Esso BP). Buy your fuel from other suppliers Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys etc. OK the prices will be the same as else where initially, but maybe if enough people boycott ESSO BP they will have to reduce their prices, and other retailers will have to follow suit to remain competitive. OK it will take large numbers of people to boycott these suppliers but it's a thought.
As I say not my original idea, but I have been running my Turbo on Tesco unleaded with no ill effects, so I might just continue to do so.
04 September 2005, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Martyn Tonks
Just had one of those "chain" e mails sent to me that outlines a way of possibly forcing the price of petrol down. ( Let me just say I didn't think this one up!!!!!)
Instead of having fuel blockades and only buying every other day etc, why not boycott the biggest petrol retailers (Esso BP). Buy your fuel from other suppliers Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys etc. OK the prices will be the same as else where initially, but maybe if enough people boycott ESSO BP they will have to reduce their prices, and other retailers will have to follow suit to remain competitive. OK it will take large numbers of people to boycott these suppliers but it's a thought.
As I say not my original idea, but I have been running my Turbo on Tesco unleaded with no ill effects, so I might just continue to do so.
Instead of having fuel blockades and only buying every other day etc, why not boycott the biggest petrol retailers (Esso BP). Buy your fuel from other suppliers Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys etc. OK the prices will be the same as else where initially, but maybe if enough people boycott ESSO BP they will have to reduce their prices, and other retailers will have to follow suit to remain competitive. OK it will take large numbers of people to boycott these suppliers but it's a thought.
As I say not my original idea, but I have been running my Turbo on Tesco unleaded with no ill effects, so I might just continue to do so.
When did you last see a Tesco refinery or an Asda oilrig? Who do you think gets the oil for Tesco?
04 September 2005, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Pauleds2
I agree, we get fleeced hands down by this useless money grabbing Government and we need to take action as a nation to stop us getting shafted any more.
We just all sit back and let it happen!
If i saw that waste of skin Blair in the street i'd **** him.
We just all sit back and let it happen!
If i saw that waste of skin Blair in the street i'd **** him.
Anyone else notice how rapidly the petrol prices went up AFTER the election.
More petrol strikes are needed asafp.
04 September 2005, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Trem
Amen to that.
Anyone else notice how rapidly the petrol prices went up AFTER the election.
More petrol strikes are needed asafp.
Anyone else notice how rapidly the petrol prices went up AFTER the election.
More petrol strikes are needed asafp.
Fuel duty or VAT has NOT gone up since the election. Global oil prices have rocketed. Hardly a sole UK issue is it.
04 September 2005, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by imlach
Christ on a bike. Do any of you read?
Fuel duty or VAT has NOT gone up since the election. Global oil prices have rocketed. Hardly a sole UK issue is it.
Fuel duty or VAT has NOT gone up since the election. Global oil prices have rocketed. Hardly a sole UK issue is it.
I know whats gone on, the oil prices have been rising due to our goverment invading an oil producing country. Either way its still the goverments fault.
They fu*king well control the oil in Iraq along with retard Bush.
Ah well the staunch Labour supporters never admit they are wrong....do they?
What a lot of people don't realise is that the UK is an oil producing country so the goverment wins both ways. Whats their excuse for that, someone invaded the North sea have they?
Last edited by Trem; 04 September 2005 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Grammar horrors!
04 September 2005, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Trem
I know whats gone on, the oil prices have risen due to our goverment invading an oil producing country. Either way its still the goverments fault.
They fu*king well control the oil in Iraq along with retard Bush.
Ah well the staunch Labour supporters never admit they are wrong....do they?
They fu*king well control the oil in Iraq along with retard Bush.
Ah well the staunch Labour supporters never admit they are wrong....do they?
PS Never voted labour in my life.
04 September 2005, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by deano555
The problem will arise Imlach when even you wont be able to use your car, when the truckers start blockading oil companies again, thats if they don't all go out of business first.
It was something like - The goverment will bring in a new and fairer measure to help the haulage companies within 5 years, they will somehow pay less for diesel. But, if they start more blockades again then the deal will be withdrawn.
04 September 2005, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by imlach
Wrong on all counts.
PS Never voted labour in my life.
PS Never voted labour in my life.
We didn't invade Iraq? We aren't an oil producing country? It isn't the goverment that decides how much duty we pay?
Hmmm pray tell, which bits were wrong?
04 September 2005, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Trem
Which bits am I wrong on?
We didn't invade Iraq? We aren't an oil producing country? It isn't the goverment that decides how much duty we pay?
Hmmm pray tell, which bits were wrong?
We didn't invade Iraq? We aren't an oil producing country? It isn't the goverment that decides how much duty we pay?
Hmmm pray tell, which bits were wrong?
2) Fuel duty has not increased of late. Therefore the current price is nowt to do with the goverment.
3) Yes we produce oil, but it's a privatised industry. Up to the oil companies how much they want to charge for it.
04 September 2005, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Trem
Which bits am I wrong on?
We didn't invade Iraq? We aren't an oil producing country? It isn't the goverment that decides how much duty we pay?
Hmmm pray tell, which bits were wrong?
We didn't invade Iraq? We aren't an oil producing country? It isn't the goverment that decides how much duty we pay?
Hmmm pray tell, which bits were wrong?
04 September 2005, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by imlach
1) Iraq is not the biggest reason why crude oil has rocketed in price.
2) Fuel duty has not increased of late. Therefore the current price is nowt to do with the goverment.
3) Yes we produce oil, but it's a privatised industry. Up to the oil companies how much they want to charge for it.
2) Fuel duty has not increased of late. Therefore the current price is nowt to do with the goverment.
3) Yes we produce oil, but it's a privatised industry. Up to the oil companies how much they want to charge for it.
2) The goverment needs to lower VAT on fuel to bring it in line with the rest of the world, why don't you understand that?
3) The oil companies still pay tax to the goverment for christs sake. The goverment gets more tax from them the more they increase their prices hence making more money.
This isn't a personal attack Imlach, I enjoy a good debate. So lets hear your theories on the above.
I may be really wrong but from where I'm sitting it all adds up to me.
04 September 2005, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by willfal
i said in another post 2 days ago that fuel costs in the highlands of scotland were
96.9 for unleaded
99.9 for super unleaded
that has now changed..........
105.9 for unleaded
108.9 super unleaded
and diesel is now 102.9 but dont know what it was before.
WTF, i thought it would go up but to increase so much is a fcukin joke.
Will
96.9 for unleaded
99.9 for super unleaded
that has now changed..........
105.9 for unleaded
108.9 super unleaded
and diesel is now 102.9 but dont know what it was before.
WTF, i thought it would go up but to increase so much is a fcukin joke.
Will
04 September 2005, 06:32 PM
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There are multiple reasons for the current increase in oil prices, long term trends and short term supply problems.
Do some research people, don't just use lazy knee jerk reactions that the rises must be down to the govt taxing us too much
It's more complex. First you would be advised to learn about "Peak Oil". Oil is a finite resource. No major oil discoveries are being made. Therefore the reservoir of oil remaining to be extracted is reducing year on year. All the "low hanging fruit" is already being tapped. They are tapping those existing reserves at pretty much 100% capacity. That means if they wanted to increase production by 10% tomorrow, they simply couldn't. They don't have the reserves/wells/pipelines to do that. You can read more on peak oil here.
Against this backdrop of peak oil (maybe not peaked yet, but perhaps very soon) you have another trend, the industrialization of China, India and other developing countries. From being self sufficient in energy 10 years ago, China now imports more oil than every other country in the world except the US. Their economy is growing like crazy and sucking in the world resorces in almost every area. Its supply & demand, they are pushing prices ever higher.
Lastly you have short term effects, hurricane Katerina and others. Before Katerina hit you could see the oil price fluctuating by a couple of dollars on just rumours of production difficulties in the Gulf of Mexico, strikes in Venuezuela or refinery fires in the US. Now add a category 4 hurricane ploughing through a major US oil production zone and taking out refining capacity which is already in short supply. It's going to have a huge effect. You can read about the refining capacity crunch here.
Can anyone identify where the British govt. is responsible for the global increase in petrol prices? They might cream a bit more off VAT on fuel, but that's a by-product of the increases, not the cause.
The major long term trends mentioned above are way beyond the control of this government, the US govt, EU or even OPEC. They are a fundamental challenge to the current world ecomony currently reliant on plentiful and cheap oil. The era of cheap plentiful oil may be coming to an end (or already ended?).
The government could reduce taxes on fuel, but they would generate it some other way. With any change in taxes there are winners and losers, so consider that it might cost you more overall, not less.
Oh but I forgot, the petrol price increases are somehow to do with immigration, right?
Doh!
Do some research people, don't just use lazy knee jerk reactions that the rises must be down to the govt taxing us too much
It's more complex. First you would be advised to learn about "Peak Oil". Oil is a finite resource. No major oil discoveries are being made. Therefore the reservoir of oil remaining to be extracted is reducing year on year. All the "low hanging fruit" is already being tapped. They are tapping those existing reserves at pretty much 100% capacity. That means if they wanted to increase production by 10% tomorrow, they simply couldn't. They don't have the reserves/wells/pipelines to do that. You can read more on peak oil here.
Against this backdrop of peak oil (maybe not peaked yet, but perhaps very soon) you have another trend, the industrialization of China, India and other developing countries. From being self sufficient in energy 10 years ago, China now imports more oil than every other country in the world except the US. Their economy is growing like crazy and sucking in the world resorces in almost every area. Its supply & demand, they are pushing prices ever higher.
Lastly you have short term effects, hurricane Katerina and others. Before Katerina hit you could see the oil price fluctuating by a couple of dollars on just rumours of production difficulties in the Gulf of Mexico, strikes in Venuezuela or refinery fires in the US. Now add a category 4 hurricane ploughing through a major US oil production zone and taking out refining capacity which is already in short supply. It's going to have a huge effect. You can read about the refining capacity crunch here.
Can anyone identify where the British govt. is responsible for the global increase in petrol prices? They might cream a bit more off VAT on fuel, but that's a by-product of the increases, not the cause.
The major long term trends mentioned above are way beyond the control of this government, the US govt, EU or even OPEC. They are a fundamental challenge to the current world ecomony currently reliant on plentiful and cheap oil. The era of cheap plentiful oil may be coming to an end (or already ended?).
The government could reduce taxes on fuel, but they would generate it some other way. With any change in taxes there are winners and losers, so consider that it might cost you more overall, not less.
Oh but I forgot, the petrol price increases are somehow to do with immigration, right?
Doh!
04 September 2005, 07:19 PM
#113
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I've been away for a needless burn in the car, but Brit In Japan has answered all the questions asked I think
As he said, China is the fastest growing economy in the world, and is industrialising itself at some rate - which requires huge amounts of oil. India is not far behind in requiring record amounts of oil. Extraction rates, and refining capacity is at a peak (see ref to Peak Oil). Any reduction in output (due to hurricanes/strikes/wars/etc) does not reduce demand....if there's less product, and the same demand, only one thing can happen - the price goes up.
Oil doesn't just come from Iraq you know!
As for VAT coming into line with other countries? Don't understand this at all. There is no 'formulas' which goverments of the world have to stick to as regards taxation. They do as they see fit. America has sales tax, we have VAT. Same thing, different rate. USA has no NHS to speak of. Different country, different formula.
As he said, China is the fastest growing economy in the world, and is industrialising itself at some rate - which requires huge amounts of oil. India is not far behind in requiring record amounts of oil. Extraction rates, and refining capacity is at a peak (see ref to Peak Oil). Any reduction in output (due to hurricanes/strikes/wars/etc) does not reduce demand....if there's less product, and the same demand, only one thing can happen - the price goes up.
Oil doesn't just come from Iraq you know!
As for VAT coming into line with other countries? Don't understand this at all. There is no 'formulas' which goverments of the world have to stick to as regards taxation. They do as they see fit. America has sales tax, we have VAT. Same thing, different rate. USA has no NHS to speak of. Different country, different formula.
05 September 2005, 04:08 PM
#114
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Originally Posted by imlach
Well if people would come on here spouting untruths
From Pistonhead, fuel duty is 47.1 pence a litre + 17.5 VAT = 55.34 pence a litre.
Read this, quite interesting paper:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=11821
05 September 2005, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by k2iss
So much for your 48.5 pence a litre then...
From Pistonhead, fuel duty is 47.1 pence a litre + 17.5 VAT = 55.34 pence a litre.
Read this, quite interesting paper:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=11821
From Pistonhead, fuel duty is 47.1 pence a litre + 17.5 VAT = 55.34 pence a litre.
Read this, quite interesting paper:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=11821
05 September 2005, 04:30 PM
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05 September 2005, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by misty
How do you lot go on when you go to the pub? Beer costs around £3.85 a litre!!! Yet I bet you still pay it! And then P*ss it down the bog, at least you get some pleasure from the optimax.
dave
dave
That's why I don't drink beer! Optimax every time!
NS04
05 September 2005, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisp
lets knock £1 a gallon off petrol and diesel
how much do you reckon the shortfall in spending would be ?
couple of million ?
wrong !!
cars, planes,buses,trains,coaches,boats,motorcycles,scoo ters, military vehicles, trucks, industrial machinery, generators etc etc etc
all use fuel
so how many gallons at £1 less
average mileage car driver uses about 400 a year so that £400 per car.
10 million cars ?
£4,000,000,000
is that 4 billion in just lost car revenue ?
what about all the other machines that use fuel ?
double it, treble it multiply by 10 I honest dont know
What I do know is that we are talking billions of pounds which has to come from somewhere.
Now I dont like paying tax but I see it as a trade off. I am sure the government could simply add 5p to income tax and fuel would decrease next day but it would hit you in the pocket come pay day. At the moment you have to choice on the amount of fuel you buy if its a direct tax then you dont.
What I am for is spending the money more efficiently and would hope the government are looking to spend the money wisely.
how much do you reckon the shortfall in spending would be ?
couple of million ?
wrong !!
cars, planes,buses,trains,coaches,boats,motorcycles,scoo ters, military vehicles, trucks, industrial machinery, generators etc etc etc
all use fuel
so how many gallons at £1 less
average mileage car driver uses about 400 a year so that £400 per car.
10 million cars ?
£4,000,000,000
is that 4 billion in just lost car revenue ?
what about all the other machines that use fuel ?
double it, treble it multiply by 10 I honest dont know
What I do know is that we are talking billions of pounds which has to come from somewhere.
Now I dont like paying tax but I see it as a trade off. I am sure the government could simply add 5p to income tax and fuel would decrease next day but it would hit you in the pocket come pay day. At the moment you have to choice on the amount of fuel you buy if its a direct tax then you dont.
What I am for is spending the money more efficiently and would hope the government are looking to spend the money wisely.