Average wage in the UK
10 September 2005, 08:45 AM
#32
We were lucky, we owned a house outright that we bought for 60, sold it for 82 when we inherited 60k off my wifes gran, stretched to a 160k house and have been skint ever since, i.e. shopping at Aldi, driving a f*cking 1.0 Metro Clubman for a while, house has gone up to about 450 and we dont owe on it, just luck (notwithstanding the fact my wifes Gran died) and being sensible, not taking out loads of debt to buy crap even though I could. I got the p1ss taken out of me for the Metro by lads at work driving fancy cars and living at home with mum......
10 September 2005, 09:24 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by J4CKO
We were lucky, we owned a house outright that we bought for 60, sold it for 82 when we inherited 60k off my wifes gran, stretched to a 160k house and have been skint ever since, i.e. shopping at Aldi, driving a f*cking 1.0 Metro Clubman for a while, house has gone up to about 450 and we dont owe on it, just luck (notwithstanding the fact my wifes Gran died) and being sensible, not taking out loads of debt to buy crap even though I could. I got the p1ss taken out of me for the Metro by lads at work driving fancy cars and living at home with mum......
exactly Jacko....by not paying mortgage payments and staying debt free, you'll be the one laughing
10 September 2005, 10:30 AM
#34
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But the thing is no-one can 100% guarantee that there wont be a repeat of '89/90 property crash or interest rate rises and then all these people that have over stretched themselves will find themselves in a hostel!!!
I have just got re-married (last weekend) after being divorced 4 years ago. My ex wife and I bought our flat in Harrogate for £85k in 1999 and when we seperated it was worth £250k which I got half of the equity. She has been living in Scotland but kept hold of the flat. It has recently sold for £399k.
Rather than stretching myself/ourself (now Im married again) we decided to go for a house that we would really love to live in, in the area we want to live in and at the price range we wanted to pay doing all the calculations of 14% interest rates (just incase). We have a 4 story, 4 bedroom, 2 bathroom, 3 reception room victorian stone built terrace. You cant hear anyone unlike some of the new build detached houses we looked at.
Hopefully we will never have to move ever (cant do with the stress)
I have just got re-married (last weekend) after being divorced 4 years ago. My ex wife and I bought our flat in Harrogate for £85k in 1999 and when we seperated it was worth £250k which I got half of the equity. She has been living in Scotland but kept hold of the flat. It has recently sold for £399k.
Rather than stretching myself/ourself (now Im married again) we decided to go for a house that we would really love to live in, in the area we want to live in and at the price range we wanted to pay doing all the calculations of 14% interest rates (just incase). We have a 4 story, 4 bedroom, 2 bathroom, 3 reception room victorian stone built terrace. You cant hear anyone unlike some of the new build detached houses we looked at.
Hopefully we will never have to move ever (cant do with the stress)
10 September 2005, 11:36 AM
#37
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When I say the average wage is around £35,000 - I mean in my area.
We cannot, and are BEGGING, people to join us on £45,000 and cannot get anyone to bite!!
Granted, you must be clever to work where I do ....... but, still!!!
£35,000 a year would barely put a loaf on the table ......... the thought of earning any less horrifies me!!
Pete
We cannot, and are BEGGING, people to join us on £45,000 and cannot get anyone to bite!!
Granted, you must be clever to work where I do ....... but, still!!!£35,000 a year would barely put a loaf on the table ......... the thought of earning any less horrifies me!!
Pete
10 September 2005, 11:46 AM
#38
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£35,000 a year would barely put a loaf on the table ......... the thought of earning any less horrifies me!!
10 September 2005, 11:47 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by FlightMan
Friend of mine and his missus are buying self - cert. No proof of income, AFAIK no deposit, and its about 50k over what they can afford.
Crazy.
Crazy.
10 September 2005, 01:32 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Brit_in_Japan
It's worth noting there's a difference between average and median wages.
Median wages, as discussed in the link, are the wages of the 50th percentile worker. So there are equal numbers of people paid above the median and below the median.
Average is total wages divided by total number of workers. There are over 100,000 millionaires in the UK, the average is skewed upwards, above the median value. Lies, damn lies and statistics.....
Median wages, as discussed in the link, are the wages of the 50th percentile worker. So there are equal numbers of people paid above the median and below the median.
Average is total wages divided by total number of workers. There are over 100,000 millionaires in the UK, the average is skewed upwards, above the median value. Lies, damn lies and statistics.....
10 September 2005, 04:40 PM
#42
Originally Posted by MikeCardiff
Reason all those people got stupid mortgages, is that the stupid mortgage companies were stupid enough to offer 'self certifying mortgages'
You can still get self cert mortgages.
10 September 2005, 05:12 PM
#43
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No, you dont see them losing money - you see them repossessing houses from people who cant keep up the payments ( and drastically undervaluing them when they do it, stitching up the poor sods who bought them even more ) !
'Stupid' as in actively encouraging people to take out debts they cant afford, which is why the gov gently 'suggested' they not offer them anymore - yes, you can still get them, but nowhere near as easily as you could 12 months ago, and tbh in 99% of cases people who take them out do so because they cant qualify for enough money based on their incomes.
'Stupid' as in actively encouraging people to take out debts they cant afford, which is why the gov gently 'suggested' they not offer them anymore - yes, you can still get them, but nowhere near as easily as you could 12 months ago, and tbh in 99% of cases people who take them out do so because they cant qualify for enough money based on their incomes.
10 September 2005, 06:59 PM
#44
i don't think the fault lies at all with mortgage companies. If someone has falsely stated their income then they deserve to get their house repossessed or even get prosecuted for fraud if they fall behind and get into trouble (and people have been for lying on finance applications)
I fully admit I am totally responsible for every contract I sign and I will take the consequences if things go pear shapep, if I end up bankrupt and homeless so be it but I certainly won't be blaming banks.
And furthermore 99% of mortgage lenders will assist if you get into financial trouble and will usually come to some arrangement. Repossession are the extreme course of action when everything else has been unsuccessful.
I fully admit I am totally responsible for every contract I sign and I will take the consequences if things go pear shapep, if I end up bankrupt and homeless so be it but I certainly won't be blaming banks.
And furthermore 99% of mortgage lenders will assist if you get into financial trouble and will usually come to some arrangement. Repossession are the extreme course of action when everything else has been unsuccessful.
10 September 2005, 08:05 PM
#45
PSL, I put a loaf on the table with only 35k a year, in fact tonight we ate the loaf, some butter and some Jam (I nicked that from the West Bromwich Holiday Inn though), have also had some beer, but thats free for us poorly paid Chavs, at least working for local government my pension is in order.
11 September 2005, 07:12 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by DPat
erm, a millionaire is not someone who ears a £1m a year, but someone who has £1m in assets!
Extreme example, but think of the "average" wage in the state of Washington, USA. Bill Gates and the other Microsoft millionaires/billionaires would skew the average wage a long way from the median wage.
11 September 2005, 07:44 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by Brit_in_Japan
I never said a mllionaire earned more than £1m annually. But it is true that the top wage earners skew the "average" wage statistics upwards.
Extreme example, but think of the "average" wage in the state of Washington, USA. Bill Gates and the other Microsoft millionaires/billionaires would skew the average wage a long way from the median wage.
Extreme example, but think of the "average" wage in the state of Washington, USA. Bill Gates and the other Microsoft millionaires/billionaires would skew the average wage a long way from the median wage.
People who earn £qm per year skew the average up, but people who earn less than £25k skew it down - that's what an average is.
If you won £15m on the lottery this year and gave up work, your wage next year would be zero - you'd still be a millionaire, but you wouldn't have earned anything
11 September 2005, 08:52 AM
#49
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KiwiGTI - agree, and some people do take a responsible attitude to borrowing, but there are plenty that dont, and the mortgage companies offering more money than people can afford on a plate IS a problem, as there are too many people who still 'borrow now and worry about it later'
The 3 times joint income rule was developed for good reason, as this is what most people can comfortably afford to repay, even with increases in interest rates etc... a couple of years ago, mortgage companies were offering 5x income to encourage people to keep buying overpriced houses.
The 3 times joint income rule was developed for good reason, as this is what most people can comfortably afford to repay, even with increases in interest rates etc... a couple of years ago, mortgage companies were offering 5x income to encourage people to keep buying overpriced houses.
11 September 2005, 08:56 AM
#50
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Where are all these companies when I want them?!?! When we bought our house, the most we could get was 4x the highest salary plus the other one! We knew what we could afford though and took rather less than the above in case of interest rate hikes.
Its the same as all these low interest rate loans - I still couldn't get one at a low rate for all the tea in China (probably due to us not having any debts so they won't make money out of us!!!!)
Its the same as all these low interest rate loans - I still couldn't get one at a low rate for all the tea in China (probably due to us not having any debts so they won't make money out of us!!!!)
11 September 2005, 04:22 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by DPat
Sorry, but millionaires do NOT skew average wages up.
People who earn £qm per year skew the average up, but people who earn less than £25k skew it down - that's what an average is.
If you won £15m on the lottery this year and gave up work, your wage next year would be zero - you'd still be a millionaire, but you wouldn't have earned anything
People who earn £qm per year skew the average up, but people who earn less than £25k skew it down - that's what an average is.
If you won £15m on the lottery this year and gave up work, your wage next year would be zero - you'd still be a millionaire, but you wouldn't have earned anything
Why do you think there is a difference between median and average? It is because there is not an even distribution of wages. As there is a national minimum wage there is a lower limit below which wages cannot fall below. However there are people with compensation packages which run into millions per year.
Whilst I accept the point that retained wealth is different from salary, perhaps you can accept that those who have significant wages (who are also often millionaires, strangely enough) will skew the average more because proportinately they can be many times above the average wage.
A single premier league footballer will skew the average wage upwards than a busload of people on national minimum wage can skew it downwards.
11 September 2005, 05:10 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Luan Pra bang
Self certs usually require a 25-35 percent deposit thats why banks don't mind as they will always get their money back.
11 September 2005, 05:11 PM
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11 September 2005, 06:21 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by Brit_in_Japan
Read my earlier post. I was differentiating between the terms "median" and "average". The original post linked to "median" wage statistics to counter some other threads where a higher figure was quoted for "average" wages.
Why do you think there is a difference between median and average? It is because there is not an even distribution of wages. As there is a national minimum wage there is a lower limit below which wages cannot fall below. However there are people with compensation packages which run into millions per year.
Whilst I accept the point that retained wealth is different from salary, perhaps you can accept that those who have significant wages (who are also often millionaires, strangely enough) will skew the average more because proportinately they can be many times above the average wage.
A single premier league footballer will skew the average wage upwards than a busload of people on national minimum wage can skew it downwards.
Why do you think there is a difference between median and average? It is because there is not an even distribution of wages. As there is a national minimum wage there is a lower limit below which wages cannot fall below. However there are people with compensation packages which run into millions per year.
Whilst I accept the point that retained wealth is different from salary, perhaps you can accept that those who have significant wages (who are also often millionaires, strangely enough) will skew the average more because proportinately they can be many times above the average wage.
A single premier league footballer will skew the average wage upwards than a busload of people on national minimum wage can skew it downwards.
An average is just that - the total divided by the number of samples.
Do you have any facts to back up your position that the Median will be lower than the Mean?
The current socialist/communist government wants us all to be equal - not be rewarding excellence, but but punishing it to bring us all down to the level of the lowest common denominator (excluding Lawyers B.liar's wife, for example)
11 September 2005, 09:15 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by DPat
Whilst I understand the differences between Mean, Mode and Median I do not accept the point about an exceptionally high earner skewing the result more than minimum wage earners
An average is just that - the total divided by the number of samples.
Do you have any facts to back up your position that the Median will be lower than the Mean?
The current socialist/communist government wants us all to be equal - not be rewarding excellence, but but punishing it to bring us all down to the level of the lowest common denominator (excluding Lawyers B.liar's wife, for example)
An average is just that - the total divided by the number of samples.
Do you have any facts to back up your position that the Median will be lower than the Mean?
The current socialist/communist government wants us all to be equal - not be rewarding excellence, but but punishing it to bring us all down to the level of the lowest common denominator (excluding Lawyers B.liar's wife, for example)
Public and private sector
earnings
The gap between private and public
sector median earnings for full-time
employees narrowed in April 2004.
Private sector median gross weekly
earnings were £411 compared with
public sector earnings of £453 (see
Table 7).1 Previous comparisons
between private and public sector,
which were based on mean earnings,
have shown the private sector (at
£512) to be higher than the public
sector (at £499). This was because of
the effect of the skewed distribution of
high earners in the private sector.
earnings
The gap between private and public
sector median earnings for full-time
employees narrowed in April 2004.
Private sector median gross weekly
earnings were £411 compared with
public sector earnings of £453 (see
Table 7).1 Previous comparisons
between private and public sector,
which were based on mean earnings,
have shown the private sector (at
£512) to be higher than the public
sector (at £499). This was because of
the effect of the skewed distribution of
high earners in the private sector.
11 September 2005, 11:51 PM
#56
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and by what name is the wage that the most people earn known has, and what amount would that wage be. must be below the average. Wish i was on average wage and normal hours rather than shifts. Dont nobody take an engineering apprentiship cause engineering is stuffed. The money is all in non producing jobs now. the country is going to the dogs for the 'normal' working class man. As far as i know under this government the rich have got richer and the poor poorer. Same in every western country i guess.
12 September 2005, 08:33 AM
#57
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Dunno about that, I used to be poorer, and now I've got richer, so it doesnt always apply. Did loads of crap jobs with no security, finally got fed up with it all and put myself through university ( engineering design funnily enough ).
I think a lot of people use that as an excuse because they cant be bothered to get off their ***** and do something about their situation.
People in this country seem to think they are automatically entitled to everything now, the concept of working for what you get has gone out the window - nobody seems to have the patience to wait for things, or for their position to change - all these 18 year olds that think they should be on £25K a year when they have no decent qualifications or experience.
Had I just sat around waiting for the government to give me a great job that paid well, then yes, I would probably be getting poorer - but then I'd deserve it !
I think a lot of people use that as an excuse because they cant be bothered to get off their ***** and do something about their situation.
People in this country seem to think they are automatically entitled to everything now, the concept of working for what you get has gone out the window - nobody seems to have the patience to wait for things, or for their position to change - all these 18 year olds that think they should be on £25K a year when they have no decent qualifications or experience.
Had I just sat around waiting for the government to give me a great job that paid well, then yes, I would probably be getting poorer - but then I'd deserve it !
12 September 2005, 09:55 AM
#58
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I think the 'purpose' of knowing what the average wage is, is to ascertain what the typical person earns. For this purpose, the median is probably the best gauge.
Put it this way, how would you calculate the typical wage from the following sample of people?
4 at £20,000
4 at £25,000
1 at £10,000
1 at £200,000
Now the median is gonna be about £22,500 which, given the sample is probably a fair representation of what a typical person earns.
The mean is £39,000 which is hardly representative is it? (are you reading pslewis?!!!)
Put it this way, how would you calculate the typical wage from the following sample of people?
4 at £20,000
4 at £25,000
1 at £10,000
1 at £200,000
Now the median is gonna be about £22,500 which, given the sample is probably a fair representation of what a typical person earns.
The mean is £39,000 which is hardly representative is it? (are you reading pslewis?!!!)
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