Brown blames Opec for fuel crisis
12 September 2005, 02:02 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by pslewis
We can all afford to pay £3 a litre for our gas guzzlers - so, I say, shut up your bloody moaning and crying ya' bunch of girls blouses!!
12 September 2005, 02:06 PM
#32
12 September 2005, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pslewis
Right you foookin thick inbreeds!!
Labour has NOT added any tax to petrol ........
There is a FIXED amount of duty applied, about 72p of each litre? ... note the word FIXED!! you thick, dozy *****!!
VAT is levied at 17.5% as it is on everything else!!
The government could cut the 72p portion, it's too difficult to change VAT .... but even that would mean parliment had to agree it ....... as it agreed and approved the amount.
We live in a democracy - so changes need to be put through due process
And, as for it being Labours fault???? Only a complete idiot would think THAT!!
Pete
Labour has NOT added any tax to petrol ........
There is a FIXED amount of duty applied, about 72p of each litre? ... note the word FIXED!! you thick, dozy *****!!
VAT is levied at 17.5% as it is on everything else!!
The government could cut the 72p portion, it's too difficult to change VAT .... but even that would mean parliment had to agree it ....... as it agreed and approved the amount.
We live in a democracy - so changes need to be put through due process
And, as for it being Labours fault???? Only a complete idiot would think THAT!!
Pete
12 September 2005, 02:55 PM
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12 September 2005, 03:13 PM
#36
5. Spend the money on healing the sick and teaching the children??
6. Give the pensioners a nice winter allowance??
7. Spend the windfall on other good causes??
6. Give the pensioners a nice winter allowance??
7. Spend the windfall on other good causes??
Rather like the £5 billion per year Brown has stolen from pension funds over the last few years..............what have WE seen for that??
Alcazar
13 September 2005, 10:20 AM
#37
Sure the fuel tax it extortionately high, but is it really Labours fault as some have suggested? It seems that we have short memories. It was the tories that introduced the annual fuel tax accelerator. Labour kept it going for a while but ended it due to public opinion, as it was deemed to be too unfair.
13 September 2005, 10:30 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by pslewis
5. Spend the money on healing the sick and teaching the children??
6. Give the pensioners a nice winter allowance??
7. Spend the windfall on other good causes??
I'll go for 5, 6 and 7 thanks all the same .........................
6. Give the pensioners a nice winter allowance??
7. Spend the windfall on other good causes??
I'll go for 5, 6 and 7 thanks all the same .........................
13 September 2005, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by alcazar
Nope it's 17.5% and that's my whole point: as the price rises, (forget fuel tax for the moment), so does the VAT amount collected.
13 September 2005, 11:15 AM
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As an inveterate troll PSL will say anything controversial to try to get record sized threads. I dont think that he actually believes what he says, no one could be that stupid!
He quite correctly mentioned the £33 billion that Brown is now short of to balance the NL exchequer books. The reason for that is that they have been overspending seriously and borrowing to make up the difference. They have thrown the economy that Clarke left in very good condition against the wall and it will not be long before we have to start paying for their incompetence and ineptitude through even higher taxes.
Its all very well to shout about enormous expenditure on the NHS etc. but it does no good if it all goes in extra NHS Trust personnel wages. There is nearly one administrator to one doctor or nurse or member of staff now in the NHS! Consultants are being sacked and doctors cannot get a job now because the trusts are running out of money and they need it to pay the trust personnel of course.
The beaureaucratic burden which this sorry lot have put on us which does nothing to improve the lot of the electorate anyway is bleeding all our taxes away and more!
In the meantime they take absolutely no notice of what the electorate wants and do just as they like for their own convenience. Some democracy!
Les
He quite correctly mentioned the £33 billion that Brown is now short of to balance the NL exchequer books. The reason for that is that they have been overspending seriously and borrowing to make up the difference. They have thrown the economy that Clarke left in very good condition against the wall and it will not be long before we have to start paying for their incompetence and ineptitude through even higher taxes.
Its all very well to shout about enormous expenditure on the NHS etc. but it does no good if it all goes in extra NHS Trust personnel wages. There is nearly one administrator to one doctor or nurse or member of staff now in the NHS! Consultants are being sacked and doctors cannot get a job now because the trusts are running out of money and they need it to pay the trust personnel of course.
The beaureaucratic burden which this sorry lot have put on us which does nothing to improve the lot of the electorate anyway is bleeding all our taxes away and more!
In the meantime they take absolutely no notice of what the electorate wants and do just as they like for their own convenience. Some democracy!
Les
Last edited by Leslie; 13 September 2005 at 11:17 AM.
13 September 2005, 12:58 PM
#41
Duty on fuel has not been raised for 3 years.
I agree it's too high (around 6p higher than most European Countries) but the current prices are nothing to do with the duty.
THEY ARE DUE TO THE HIGH COST OF CRUDE OIL!
There is a severe lack of Worldwide Refining capacity and this has been further exacerbated by the hurricane which shut down the majority of the US Gulf Coast production.
If not defending Mr.Brown and I have never voted Labour in my life but on this occassion he is right, the current high prices are not his fault.
THIS IS A GLOBAL PROBLEM and way beyond this Governments control - sadly!
Cheers
Simon
I agree it's too high (around 6p higher than most European Countries) but the current prices are nothing to do with the duty.
THEY ARE DUE TO THE HIGH COST OF CRUDE OIL!
There is a severe lack of Worldwide Refining capacity and this has been further exacerbated by the hurricane which shut down the majority of the US Gulf Coast production.
If not defending Mr.Brown and I have never voted Labour in my life but on this occassion he is right, the current high prices are not his fault.
THIS IS A GLOBAL PROBLEM and way beyond this Governments control - sadly!
Cheers
Simon
13 September 2005, 01:34 PM
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Duty on fuel has dropped, not increased, from an high of 77%ish to the curretn 67%, so contrary to what you believe, NL has not whacked us for fuel.
The OPEC countries are wholly to blame for the current hike (and to a much lesser extent recently a little lady in New Orleans - you can hardly blame Brown for that!), not the government.
As for this ridiculous notion that the govt should suddenly reduce the duty because we don't ike it, what about all other taxes? VAT is a percentage, income tax is a percentage, corporation tax, ad infinitum. We don't bleat on about them reducing VAT because of the increase in food or consumer goods.
That's just how taxes work, get over it.
As oil becomes more scarce, an countries like China and India (and then the African nations) start to have western level of demand, the problem will become worse and worse, what are you going to do then? Oil is simply not an inexhaustable resource, and this is just the tip of the wedge, protests won't create more oil reserves!
Geezer
The OPEC countries are wholly to blame for the current hike (and to a much lesser extent recently a little lady in New Orleans - you can hardly blame Brown for that!), not the government.
As for this ridiculous notion that the govt should suddenly reduce the duty because we don't ike it, what about all other taxes? VAT is a percentage, income tax is a percentage, corporation tax, ad infinitum. We don't bleat on about them reducing VAT because of the increase in food or consumer goods.
That's just how taxes work, get over it.
As oil becomes more scarce, an countries like China and India (and then the African nations) start to have western level of demand, the problem will become worse and worse, what are you going to do then? Oil is simply not an inexhaustable resource, and this is just the tip of the wedge, protests won't create more oil reserves!
Geezer
13 September 2005, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Geezer
The OPEC countries are wholly to blame for the current hike
1) OPEC only produces around 40% of the world's oil.
2) OPEC don't set the global price of oil. They may try to influence it by increasing/reducing output etc, but they certainly don't set it.
13 September 2005, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Geezer
Duty on fuel has dropped, not increased, from an high of 77%ish to the curretn 67%, so contrary to what you believe, NL has not whacked us for fuel.
13 September 2005, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by davegtt
Technically your wrong. as a percentage its dropped yes but they are getting more money from Tax on fuel, but only because of steep rises in the price of the oil.....
At £1/litre :
47.1p is fuel duty (fixed)
14.9p is VAT
Therefore percentage of tax is 62% at £1/litre. Since we were at 80p/litre, the government is getting an extra 3.5p in revenue per litre, with the oil companies taking the rest of the 20p rise (16.5p/litre).
13 September 2005, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by imlach
the government is getting an extra 3.5p in revenue per litre
that's a 3.5p per litre windfall for the government. An area they have control over, and that they could (should) offer relief on, but are refusing to do so. Hence, they are taking full advantage of the situation. It's a point of principle as much as anything else - and proof positive (if that were needed) that this government has no principles.
13 September 2005, 02:45 PM
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like Ive said before, oil company puts up the price by 10p and so the government get 1.75p. So who do we blame and want to attack? The man getting the 1.75p???? sensible aint it
why has it took til now for people to want to have a dig?
why has it took til now for people to want to have a dig?
Last edited by davegtt; 13 September 2005 at 02:56 PM.
13 September 2005, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
In case you still don't get it that's a 3.5p per litre windfall for the government. An area they have control over, and that they could (should) offer relief on, but are refusing to do so. Hence, they are taking full advantage of the situation. It's a point of principle as much as anything else.
that's a 3.5p per litre windfall for the government. An area they have control over, and that they could (should) offer relief on, but are refusing to do so. Hence, they are taking full advantage of the situation. It's a point of principle as much as anything else.However, I really don't see the protests/panicking stopping once the uneducated public at large realise it is ONLY 3.5p that the government are gaining....ie, petrol goes down from 103p/litre to 100p/litre....they'll still blame the government.
Anyway, don't see any protests EVER happening when commodity prices have increased on other products. VAT is VAT. A special case of reduced VAT for fuel seems a logistical nightmare, and would probably cost more than 3.5p to setup & administer.
Why the special case for fuel? Prices do go up & down you know....it's a free market economy.
Last edited by imlach; 13 September 2005 at 02:50 PM.
13 September 2005, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by davegtt
why has it took til now for people to want to have a dig?
13 September 2005, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by davegtt
why has it took til now for people to want to have a dig?
You couldn't make this stuff up
13 September 2005, 02:58 PM
#52
How about what the goverment gains...they can afford to loose?
If the goverment was truely bothered they'd knock off that extra 3.5p (or 1.75 over the past 2 weeks ) without any fuss - it would be a good will gesture and would make excellent "we care" publicity spin....bit like the US or France.
Blame shifting will never address this. Fuel duty was based on prices before this increase. and doesn't take into accounts any situation where raw prices are increased through natural causes. It is foolish of any goverment not to expect people to wanting them to have measures taken in such situations where prices are increased through temporary production circumstances.
Because there is no fail safe system in place for when it happend, we had blockades and protests. The goverment have obviously learnt very little from this in terms of preventing such a situation arising again - a ticking bomb so to speak...with a huge "off" switch...but nobody wants to touch it
If the goverment was truely bothered they'd knock off that extra 3.5p (or 1.75 over the past 2 weeks ) without any fuss - it would be a good will gesture and would make excellent "we care" publicity spin
....bit like the US or France.Blame shifting will never address this. Fuel duty was based on prices before this increase. and doesn't take into accounts any situation where raw prices are increased through natural causes. It is foolish of any goverment not to expect people to wanting them to have measures taken in such situations where prices are increased through temporary production circumstances.
Because there is no fail safe system in place for when it happend, we had blockades and protests. The goverment have obviously learnt very little from this in terms of preventing such a situation arising again - a ticking bomb so to speak...with a huge "off" switch...but nobody wants to touch it
13 September 2005, 03:02 PM
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lol.. but the government are laughing at us? do they care whether or not you are moaning about the petrol? course not!!! by the time the next election comes round it'll all be forgotten, and even if it hadnt you'd need to get lazy ar$es to go and vote for the opposition.....
If they cut say 3p a litre from the fixed duty. would you all still be happy? the fact the petrol has dropped 3p? it'll still be alot more expensive than it was 2 months ago!!!!! and when oil prices increase by another 10p. what then????
Be grateful your not living in the year 3005. by then if we're not on electricity we'll be paying a good £10 a litre for the stuff lol
If they cut say 3p a litre from the fixed duty. would you all still be happy? the fact the petrol has dropped 3p? it'll still be alot more expensive than it was 2 months ago!!!!! and when oil prices increase by another 10p. what then????
Be grateful your not living in the year 3005. by then if we're not on electricity we'll be paying a good £10 a litre for the stuff
lol
13 September 2005, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by davegtt
Technically your wrong. as a percentage its dropped yes but they are getting more money from Tax on fuel, but only because of steep rises in the price of the oil.....
I know what you're saying, but the point I'm maiking is that the only reason the govt is getting more money is because the oil companies have increased the price! NOthing to do with NL. It's just the way tax works innit?
Geezer
13 September 2005, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ALi-B
Fuel duty was based on prices before this increase.
However, if you're asking for fuel duty to be based on today's prices, I'm sure the chancellor would oblige
Remember, he is not charging you any more duty, EVEN WITH these high prices.
Fuel prices have always gone up & down.
I don't remember any of you asking for a fuel duty INCREASE when the prices dipped 10p below the 6 month moving day average???
13 September 2005, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Geezer
Dave,
I know what you're saying, but the point I'm maiking is that the only reason the govt is getting more money is because the oil companies have increased the price! NOthing to do with NL. It's just the way tax works innit?
Geezer
I know what you're saying, but the point I'm maiking is that the only reason the govt is getting more money is because the oil companies have increased the price! NOthing to do with NL. It's just the way tax works innit?
Geezer
13 September 2005, 03:33 PM
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As motorists, we are getting stung for more money, thats the way it works!
Weather it be fuel duty and the VAT on that, road fund licenses, high street robbery, umm ment parking fees, car insurance ( the government now skims off all insurance policies) or congestion charges if you live near London central.
We are just here for the government to use as revenue raisers.
How long before they start putting VAT on fresh air, the robbing *******s?
Weather it be fuel duty and the VAT on that, road fund licenses, high street robbery, umm ment parking fees, car insurance ( the government now skims off all insurance policies) or congestion charges if you live near London central.
We are just here for the government to use as revenue raisers.
How long before they start putting VAT on fresh air, the robbing *******s?
13 September 2005, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 555wrx
As motorists, we are getting stung for more money, thats the way it works!
Weather it be fuel duty and the VAT on that, road fund licenses, high street robbery, umm ment parking fees, car insurance ( the government now skims off all insurance policies) or congestion charges if you live near London central.
We are just here for the government to use as revenue raisers.
How long before they start putting VAT on fresh air, the robbing *******s?
Weather it be fuel duty and the VAT on that, road fund licenses, high street robbery, umm ment parking fees, car insurance ( the government now skims off all insurance policies) or congestion charges if you live near London central.
We are just here for the government to use as revenue raisers.
How long before they start putting VAT on fresh air, the robbing *******s?
13 September 2005, 03:40 PM
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They may aswell be with their poor effort at public transport lol
to be fair public transport is top notch in London. Anywhere else, it just doesnt exsist
lol to be fair public transport is top notch in London. Anywhere else, it just doesnt exsist