OllyK

I am well aware of it. I was well aware that I would get 12p / mile when I joined the company. I accept that and work with it rather than expecting others to fund me.

Sure, but talizman didn't mention any planning. Having a child is a huge responsibility, you are bringing a life in to this world and so many people seem to do this with little fore thought of the implications.

Damn when we got a dog we researched it, and planend for many months before we actually got it. We already had vets and puppy classes assessed and lined up, we had checked out insuance and what it would cost to keep a dog and decided we could afford to do so and give it a good life. It seems some people don't think about things to even this level about something that is supposed to be the most precious thing in their life.

Actually I did imply they sounded like spongers. No evidence of planning and looking for the state to make up the shortfall in his wife's income. Sounds like sponging to me. I did say however, that if he has just badly worded it and there is more to this than meets the eye then I will gladly apologise.

As you say, it's massive - so why go in to it with no research, no planning and your eyes closed, damn most people give buying a car more thought than this.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Olly,

I don't know if you've read my lenghtly reply on page 3, I assume not....

I didn't mention planning cos it wasn't in the slightest bit relevant to my question in post 1.

I subsequently fully explained my situation due to the many conclusions being jumped to.

We did plan, big time.

As for comparing the research to that of a dog, have you ever had an "unplanned" dog?

No evidence of planning? lol, I didn't realise that I should have given a full run down of our previous 6 months before asking about beneifts! lol

robski

Congrats!

As someone whos been there, had the first and just had the 2nd I can honestly say that it WILL be some of the best times of your life, also some of the worst. The first "serious" illness is a nightmare and I'm just talking something like a sickness bug that means you see them becoming dehyrated.

My wife had 6 months off with the first, sucked a big hole in the savings. Worst time was actually when she returned to work, the nursery fees were a significant % of takehome (about 50%) but then at least she was paying into her pension pot for retirement. Slowly it gets better, at age three you will start to get a small grant if your baby is in nursery as this is the age that the pre school education kicks in, goes up at 4 when they are supposed to spend a bit longer in education. I would suggest for budget purposes that you plan on the amount you pay per month staying static for the time your nipper is in nursery as the reduction you get as they get older seems to pretty much get eroded by inflation. Remember most nursery workers are minimum wage type people, so as this goes up the costs for the nursery go up. Our little un loves nursery so don't worry about their welfare. Sure she gets tired, but when you see the benefits they have from the interaction and some of the things they get up to, I am 0% surprised that they are proven to do better at school at an early age (don't think the research has followed ex nursery children upto school leaving age).

Ditto what people say about clothes etc you will get offered other stuff as well. If you are being clever ask people before not to buy 0-3 clothes as everyone seems to rush out and buy these for you, and to be honest you won't really use all these fancy outfits at this stage. No problem with using an "old" rear facing seat if you know whos had it IMHO. Fitting is 9999% more important assuming it really hasn't been abused.

One of the funniest things I have heard for a while is the "lifestyle choice" brigade. Honestly since when has reproduction been a lifestyle choice? Its really only a lifestyle choice for the people who can't get someone to "mate with" or those who rate money above everything else. This pretty much sums up why you get the reaction "I shouldn't pay for your kids blah blah blah". Funny I have seen their views change sooooo many times when they do get someone who they love who wants a family.
BUT, if it is a lifestyle choice then I hope they refuse the "support" when they get older, typically family members do most of the support of their elderly relatives until they get very infirm, those with no offspring are just going to sponge off the state.
So I propose an immediate 2% increase in NI contributions for those with no offspring to support their dramatically increased support costs when these "lifestyle choice" people get to the stage they cannot look after themselves 100%.

Recently sold my scoob (3rd car) as the 2nd nipper was on the way, it was the one real luxury from the days of 2 decent salaries and little outgoings. We cancelled sky and all the other rubbish you seem to end up paying for (Sky was full of crap anyway.)

Talk to most parents at a nursery and you get the same response. Surprised at the dramatic financial effect that the nipper has had, but wouldn't give it up for the world. "Paper" wealth is really that, can all be taken away by a bad spell, very few jobs are jobs for life nowadays, but the benefit gained emotionally from a family (after the first few months ) is priceless.

You will qualify for child tax credits (think thats the correct term) based on your annual joint income, wont be much based on your earnings, an adjustment is made for approved nurseries, but again at your income its gonna be crap. Think the "minimum" is about £10 per week, but this is even phased out, I think its a straight line from 50k to 55k, so 51K would lose you 20% etc. Remember thats based on "income" so not gross pay but benefits added on top, not sure exactly which are and arent. Think this is included in the pack of stuff from hospital, not sure after 3 weeks we are just about getting straight at home ^^
You will get your child allowance "pack" in hospital when the baby is born just fill it in and send it off.

fast bloke

Talizman - please accept my apologies - Based on your reply on page 3 I did misread your intentions.

Congratulations BTW - kids are better than bikes any day

The Zohan

Congratulations Talizman.

BTW - My other half is in the exact same situation financially only she goes back to work Dec 01 this year after having 6 months off with our latest.

She only gets the £ 100.00 approx pw and it has been hard on us and taken pretty much every penny we had but worth it. She could have gone back sooner but this is a choice we made and lived with because we/she wanted that first 6 months with Olivia.

When she goes back to work we will needd to put Olivia into nursery with her sister which will cost £ 1100.00 full time for the two of them. Still, we are better off than Jenny staying at home and looking after them, well financially and also for Jenny's sanity!

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Robski,

Cheers for the info mate



Fastbloke,

No hard feelings mate



Paul,

Congratulations on the recent arrival

I, like yourself, wanted the wife to stay off for circa 6 months with the new arrival, but we'll just have to play it by ear and see how long we can afford.

Cheers guys.

Drunken Bungle Whore

Of course you shouldn't - that would take away all the fun of people leaping to conclusions and making judgements about you based on bugger all. And what else would they find to do with their time......? (We can only pray they wouldn't use it to reproduce! )

Oh - and Ollyk? No, we don't have a gun to our heads - but I have to say you're one of the few people who makes me (a comitted non violent type) want to reach for one.....

gingerboy

Talizman

Getting away from all the financials, a great read if you want to get a good routine going for the wee one when he she arrives is a book called "the contented little baby book" can't remember the authors name - a retired midwife I think, but know most medium waterstones shops carry it.

Our youngest is now 5 months and has been sleeping for between 8-10 hours since she was 3 weeks old, the book maybe a little regimented but if you only take / use 25% of the advice in it I guarantee it will make a huge difference to the amount of sleep you and your good lady will get at night - personally I found sleep deprivation to be the thing that hits you hardest.

Our eldest, nearly 3 was a nightmare and friend recommended the book / routines wihin it and within 2 weeks we went from very little sleep to 8 hours. Not only did we get more sleep but she knew where she was routine wise and has thrived ever since.

Anyway - good luck and hope all goes well for you all!

GB

Brendan Hughes

Fast bloke, I thought your first reaction was incredibly harsh, but well impressed with the apology

OllyK

I apologise for calling you a scrounger. I wish you well, and still I think you have unrealistic expectations of what the state should provide. It should provide enough to stop you from starving and not much more, it was never and should never be designed to compensate for the abscense of a full time salary.

As soon as people can live comfortably on benefits, the incetive to work is diminished. The benefits system really does need an overhaul in terms of what is payed out, and very much in a downward direction. What is handed out should be food vouchers and travel cards to attend job inteviews rather than cash. There should be a real stigma attached to being on benefits, at the moment it seems to be seen as a status symbol.

OllyK

Err yes, and I have replied. My post that you respknded to here was written before your response.

Your OP was poorly worded IMO.

Err nope, becuase we have a male dog. Others however do - think people drowning puppies in the river due to an unwanted doggy pregnancy.

A full run down wasn't reaquired, however, as stated, you OP was badly worded. I have appologiesed, I will again, as I have stated, I took your post at face value based on the information you gave us stated all along if the information supplied was incomplete or badly expressed then I'd deal with it should it come to light.

OllyK

It's always has and always will be a choice until the day you are forced to breed at gun point, and even then you have a choice, how ever unpleasant it may be.

OllyK

Well of course that would be your choice, shame as it would be, you're floundering to justify the unjustifiable is a constant source of amusement.

weapon69

Read this thread with interest. Without doubt having a baby is the most expensive thing i've ever done. Nothing to do with lavishing toys, unnecessary clothes etc on him but with the job opportunities i've had to turn down because i'd have had very little money left after childcare.

Single Mum's are better off on benefits FACT. They get rent paid, council tax paid, surestart grant, child benefit, income support and milk, vitamins, prescriptions free and god knows what else. Where is the incentive for them to work when they can just kick back and enjoy all that?!!

Scooby Snacks 23

I've read this thread and found myself nodding at my desk and agreeing to most posts. I had a son a year ago and my wife got the statutory 90% pay for the first 6 weeks and then £105p/w for the next 12 weeks. Since then, I've been paying the mortgage, bills, food, clothes, and everything (aren't nappies expensive!!) and it's been a struggle, but totally, totally worth it.

She's back at work part-time now and we're ticking along - I guess if we need money, the scooby goes

Drunken Bungle Whore

Well, for a man that claims to be such a committed scientist, you don't wait for many facts or hard evidence before leaping to conclusions about people. I just hope you're a little more thorough in the lab.....

OllyK

Can anybody supply me a brick wall, I feel the need to bang my head.

Have a read of the thread again. Look up "caveat" in the dictionary. Look at my opening post - what were my first few words, what was I trying to do? Look at some of my later posts. It may also be woth you looking up "subjective", "opinion" and "conclusion"

While I may take a scientific and critical thinking approach to many things, that's doesn't exclude me from expressing opinions on subjective matters, espcially when caveated (there's that word again).

And what is one of the most important things about science? It's self correcting, what happened later in the thread??

Drunken Bungle Whore

Caveat? Is that one of those things you wear with a tux when you're going somewhere posh....?

Self correcting eh..... when scientists realise they were wrong all along and need to back track - okay.....

OllyK

Err...nah, you've got to be joking.

Oh good grief. Whereas the un-scientific seem incapable of admiting they have made a mistake and will argue to the death that black is white rather than admit they got it wrong.

RLE

iTrader: (2)

Congrats Talizman.

I'm reading these posts with interest as my girlfriend and I are thinking of our first child in the near future. I'll be pointing her to the computer when she laughs at my suggestions to get plenty of money in the bank and that I may have to sell the Subaru to finance such a life changing decision............She thinks we're more than comfortable and is tired of me penny pinching lol

I do laugh at some of the negative replies though. One of my friends was EXACTLY the same. Why should you claim from the state, make sure your financially stable etc. Bloody hell I think he sent off the pack contaning the tax credit forms before he even held his first born. The benefits have been made available by the government. Whatever the rights or wrongs you're entitled to them and I'm sure the people that dont claim will be few and far between.

I think you're original post reflects the fact that people expecting their first child are entering into the unknown somewhat. It's a daunting propsect. You want reassurrances that everything will be ok. There's nothing at all wrong with that.

The best of luck to you and your other half.

amazinggrace

For some of us its not just a life style choice, we don't have children for a reason ( I personaly don't want to burden the state with a child I cannot care for). And as for your implying that when we get old and have no offspring to look after us we will turn to the state I think you are wrong. Having no other ways to waste our money we have properties and pensions. We plan for our old age, not burden our familys.
Makes my blood boil to think people just have children because they want someone to care for them when they are old.

Also someone mentioned how expensive nappies are, use terry toweling and save the enviroment! (not that I care that much for the enviroment, don't want you lot thinking im some kind of tree hugging hippy )

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I can honestly say that I have NEVER in my entire life heard someone use this as the reason to have kids, have you?

fast bloke

seems fair enough to me - I reckon I can get my two out to work in the mines in about another 3 years and then I can retire

richieh

firstly congrats
secondly dont worry about the money.
my wife had a brain haemorrhage(sp) 3 years back and we went from £40k between us to about £1100 per month at the mo(£300 mortgage)
we've 2 kids dogs and ferrets, a scoob ,a bike and a peugeot 205 diesel runabout.
you will find the drop in money a bit tough at first but the quality of life you'll have will more than make up for it.
the only downside i've found so far is having to hit tescos about 6 every day to be able to live on half price and free steaks.(check here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...4&page=1&pp=10 )
richie

GCollier

I do love all this narrow minded "lifestyle choice" and "shouldn't receive a penny subsidy" bollox.

Our future economy is dependent upon the children of today. If the exponents of these "lifestyle choice" opinions would stop and think for a second precisely what would happen to the shares in their pension schemes and to their investment properties if everyone stopped having kids, they'd quickly come to the conclusion that their investments would eventually end up being worth jack.

So I would propose a healthy tax break for Mrs Talizman for looking after the new arrival, paid for by a hefty tax hike on people such as amazinggrace for not providing any quality offspring to benefit our future economy

Anyway, congrats on the pending arrival Talizman

Gary.

fast bloke

a healthy tax break is quite different from a handout - but the system needs to cut out the spongers. I reckon that when Mrs tax payer goes on maternity leave, she should get a cheque back for all the tax and NI that she and Mr Taxpayer have paid for the previous year/ two years. That way you would actually see some benefit from paying tax and NI, while the spongers could continue to create chavs left right and centre, but would never actually get a penny.

While we are at it, you should be able to sack policemen if they annoy you - you are paying their wages after all

OllyK

Yup - speak to any poor African familiy, that's usually their primary reason to have kids, somebody to care for them in their old age as the state won't. It's only since the introduction of pensions and other state benefits that it has become less of a factor in this country.

OllyK

Can't beat a straw man for an opening gambit.

amazinggrace

There are plenty of children in the UK without a loving family, children in care who deserve a good life and are robbed of it by other peoples selfish views about having a child of their own. If Doctors ever did find the maternal bone in my body I would adopt a child that needed a loving careing home. Its not the childs fault it is born, its the stupidity of the parent. I am not a maternal person and know I could not give a child the attention it would need, thus I don't have any children! I have two cats. I'd love a donkey but I cannot afford one, therefore I don't have one! The goverment will not subsidise me to have a donkey I cannot afford.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I can't, I don't know any families in Africa!

And I'm pretty sure that amazinggrace wasn't referring to them either!